....why do some many people get so very worked-up over the mention of such a thing & that it could provide a better pathway for your signals & controls?
Hardwiring a complete system....
- Thread starter Air Between The Notes
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I brought up this very subject a year or so ago. IME, hardwiring of all components may be a better way to go than almost all other 'tweeks' ! However, there are many manufacturer's who would disagree with this, either due to their own particular biases or for some other vested interest. For example, if you are a cable manufacturer and selling multi $$$ power cords, I think you can then see my point, lol.
It will only take one time when it's so inconvenient to you, that you'll curse the m*********** that suggested it.
I believe the benefits are more in the mind often... but it depends a little.
Hard-wiring power cables does provide a benefit because the connectors used (typically) are asymmetrical, funny shaped, separated, and result as a source of noise. FMA prevents this, and now Furutech NCF connectors cut it down to a min (neither are cheap options). They're the most notable where I think this practice makes sense, and it won't burn you badly whenever you need to move something or change something.
I believe the benefits are more in the mind often... but it depends a little.
Hard-wiring power cables does provide a benefit because the connectors used (typically) are asymmetrical, funny shaped, separated, and result as a source of noise. FMA prevents this, and now Furutech NCF connectors cut it down to a min (neither are cheap options). They're the most notable where I think this practice makes sense, and it won't burn you badly whenever you need to move something or change something.
I have done it & am a Hardwire Freak or.....Nut depending on which side of the debate you stand on but there is no better way! Yes it can be inconvenient but if your hardwired you don't need to be swapping things in & out continually. So what about type of wire or solder used? I have found huge differences there also.
I don't really believe people when they talk about differences in solder. Silver solder has silver in it because regular solder won't properly flow onto parts that contain silver... not because it has a "sound". Wire however I do prefer quality stuff for whatever. VH Audio and Parts Connexion I order from typically for most of my needs on wire.
Hardwire isn't an option for me (besides power), not when you're developing different things testing and such all the time.
It's hard to suggest it to most people because I don't want them to ruin anything. Well, most things can be fixed in one way or another, but still, most people don't have amazing solder skills (or tools).
Hardwire isn't an option for me (besides power), not when you're developing different things testing and such all the time.
It's hard to suggest it to most people because I don't want them to ruin anything. Well, most things can be fixed in one way or another, but still, most people don't have amazing solder skills (or tools).
well......on the power grid side of things, hard wiring electronics is against electrical code. no arguing properly implemented it can improve performance. OTOH messing around with expensive kit to hard wire is a problem on many levels.
on the signal path side of things hard wiring is called 'integrated'. there are lots of 'one box solutions'. with the very very rare exceptions, separate components sound better.
if you are DIY build your own then too many variables to assign hard wiring as the winning or losing piece of the puzzle.
hardwiring just 'is'. likely the perfect one box completely hard wired music device has yet to be built. but like cold fusion or digital music the theory sounds good.
Mike do you mean wiring romex to equipment? (now that sounds like hell to me)
Most cheap electronics have the powercord hardwired in... better report to China if you think that code is wrong there!
Most cheap electronics have the powercord hardwired in... better report to China if you think that code is wrong there!
the OP was not clear on his definition of hard wiring so we are left to connect the dots. it seems on the power grid side yes, something like Romex would be hard wired to the power supply in your gear. not for me or in any building I have liability for.
Curiously there are many reasons why solder can make a difference. First the cleaning flux used in the core - it will react chemically with the surfaces differently. Second the temperature and time of soldering - it will affect materials differently. And the metals itself will change the chemistry of the reaction. We should remember that soldering is a complex chemical reaction - but no, I am not pretending that audiophiles should read Lavoisier works!
Just FIY
A good solder flux must simultaneously perform a number of important functions. It must promote thermal transfer to the area of the solder joint, enhance wetting of the solder on the base metal, and prevent oxidation of the metal surfaces at soldering temperatures. However, its primary task is to remove the tarnish layer from the metal joint that is about to be soldered. Despite the fact that the process of soldering electronic devices is a part of a multi?billion dollar industry, the actual chemical reactions that occur during this cleaning process are not well documented. In the case of organic acid or water?soluble fluxes, the flux reactions can be modelled by considering the interactions at the metal/metal oxide/electrolyte solution interface. (taken from the abstract of A Model of the Solder Flux Reaction; Reactions at the Metal/ Metal Oxide/Electrolyte Solution Interface http://www.emeraldinsight.com/doi/abs/10.1108/eb044043
All I read out of that is different solders can handle different temps, and have different needs to prevent cold solder joints.
The chemicals job is to make the metals run onto whatever you're soldering, they aren't really much besides surface residue by the time you're done.
The chemicals job is to make the metals run onto whatever you're soldering, they aren't really much besides surface residue by the time you're done.
-Different metals have free"er" electrons to move the wave through the chain & so the metals used in fasteners or posts (which we are trying to avoid by this post), wire connecting components + drivers & the effect of those free"er" moving electrons effect the solder they are in. I am not suggesting we tie our systems directly into the power grid but to pass a critical eye over what effect a fuse & it's holder has in a systems energy flow? Maybe, depending on one's comfort level with such things.
-Hardwiring your cord to the equipment is good rather than receptacles to easily swap cord out of the back.
-One box solutions usually are still cutting corners to allow for markups upstream & so shared power supplies or isolations with a box are compromised.
-Making sure you don't move things as they cool when soldering is very important & keeping solid pressure between metals being joined together so they don't end up with a solder bridge between them is important also & not glob to much on, enough to do the job but not heaps built up as that can certainly mess-up the works.
-Purity of your metals is important as the field of free electrons sitting there available to move that pulse of energy along can be held back by lesser grades of metals in the mix & the same goes for the dielectric of the wire. If it is holding a charge to be released at a later moment you end up with an echo mussing up the sharpness of the energy pulse heading through the system compared to the metal that is moving the signal more efficiently/freely.
-Hardwiring your cord to the equipment is good rather than receptacles to easily swap cord out of the back.
-One box solutions usually are still cutting corners to allow for markups upstream & so shared power supplies or isolations with a box are compromised.
-Making sure you don't move things as they cool when soldering is very important & keeping solid pressure between metals being joined together so they don't end up with a solder bridge between them is important also & not glob to much on, enough to do the job but not heaps built up as that can certainly mess-up the works.
-Purity of your metals is important as the field of free electrons sitting there available to move that pulse of energy along can be held back by lesser grades of metals in the mix & the same goes for the dielectric of the wire. If it is holding a charge to be released at a later moment you end up with an echo mussing up the sharpness of the energy pulse heading through the system compared to the metal that is moving the signal more efficiently/freely.
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Air, what specifically have you hardwired in your system? I am sure that you had a very nice lift in SQ when you did this.
The only hardwired component that I have is my ARC D70Mk2 amp. WZJ was hardwiring all of the power cords in those days...and I am certain that he knew exactly what he was doing when he did that. I absolutely love this little amp, and IMHO it is a true classic that even today few tube amps can come close to...never mind beat!
Speaker systems like simple run off the mill 60$ pairs from parts source, various Fifa assemblies, various eminence panels & or with with G1 tweeters, focal MTM's, scan-speak revelator bookshelf with perrless r&l subs. DACT attenuators. Various passive crossovers, DCX 2496 & QCX 2496, modded out DXC with Selectronic kit, DIY active crossover. S-5 tube amps, plate amps for subs & 2 way, DIY bricks, a bunch of Rason clones Murano, Bel canto NAD amps, Erno Borbely amp, QLS-HIFI, a real focus on mono block amps. Couple of different entry DAC's, a NOS DAC, Borbely DAC. Sony cd player entry level, couple of NAD cds, Marantz cd/dvd, a no name b-ray, sony B-ray, HIFI 360 card player. Zip wire, home depot extension cord, better quality extension cords, various things on sale that looked pretty or from Audiogon, Monster wires, Belden wires, Supra wires, DH labs wires, QED, Cardas, Kimber, XLO, Various bare hookup (copper/silver/gold) wires within teflon, cotton or silk tubing. Plumbing solder, no name electronic solder, 4% silver of various brands. Working on nano DIGI now.
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Hi
No intention to crap on the thread but this is a discussion forum so here is my take on the issue for ..further discussions
... aren't we getting to the point of no appreciable returns except for what we fabricate in our mind when it comes to that ? Hardwiring everything? Once we've done it and we sit down and listen then aren't we predisposed to hear differences and find things that were never there ? How reliable such observations can be? Then the question has to be asked: if and when we become dissatisfied with said products so lovely hardwired and whose warranties we have so thoroughly voided by our loving hardwiring, how do we dispose of said components? So that we can fund the next to-be-hard-wired components? It is one of those extreme things that some of us do and will claim it to be the only way to go but so unpractical and the benefits so minimal to non-existent as to explain why this is not more often done!
There is a belief that everything matters in High End Audio and come to think it of it everything matters ...in any sector of life... Things are indeed more connected than we realize.. Yet.. One specific butterfly landing on a flower in Australia could be said to have no impact on my life as it is presently here in Haiti .. Same for the electrons for that notion of cable settling and the likes ..
YMMV but most audiophiles don't do it (hardwiring) and for good reasons. I don't see this changing... ever... and no one will lose anything from not doing it.
No intention to crap on the thread but this is a discussion forum so here is my take on the issue for ..further discussions
... aren't we getting to the point of no appreciable returns except for what we fabricate in our mind when it comes to that ? Hardwiring everything? Once we've done it and we sit down and listen then aren't we predisposed to hear differences and find things that were never there ? How reliable such observations can be? Then the question has to be asked: if and when we become dissatisfied with said products so lovely hardwired and whose warranties we have so thoroughly voided by our loving hardwiring, how do we dispose of said components? So that we can fund the next to-be-hard-wired components? It is one of those extreme things that some of us do and will claim it to be the only way to go but so unpractical and the benefits so minimal to non-existent as to explain why this is not more often done!
There is a belief that everything matters in High End Audio and come to think it of it everything matters ...in any sector of life... Things are indeed more connected than we realize.. Yet.. One specific butterfly landing on a flower in Australia could be said to have no impact on my life as it is presently here in Haiti .. Same for the electrons for that notion of cable settling and the likes ..
YMMV but most audiophiles don't do it (hardwiring) and for good reasons. I don't see this changing... ever... and no one will lose anything from not doing it.
Hi
No intention to crap on the thread but this is a discussion forum so here is my take on the issue for ..further discussions
... aren't we getting to the point of no appreciable returns except for what we fabricate in our mind when it comes to that ? Hardwiring everything? Once we've done it and we sit down and listen then aren't we predisposed to hear differences and find things that were never there ? How reliable such observations can be? Then the question has to be asked: if and when we become dissatisfied with said products so lovely hardwired and whose warranties we have so thoroughly voided by our loving hardwiring, how do we dispose of said components? So that we can fund the next to-be-hard-wired components? It is one of those extreme things that some of us do and will claim it to be the only way to go but so unpractical and the benefits so minimal to non-existent as to explain why this is not more often done!
There is a belief that everything matters in High End Audio and come to think it of it everything matters ...in any sector of life... Things are indeed more connected than we realize.. Yet.. One specific butterfly landing on a flower in Australia could be said to have no impact on my life as it is presently here in Haiti .. Same for the electrons for that notion of cable settling and the likes ..
YMMV but most audiophiles don't do it (hardwiring) and for good reasons. I don't see this changing... ever... and no one will lose anything from not doing it.
Frantz, you make some very good points. However, I do think there is a strong case for some manufacturer's hard wiring their power cords. The loss in SQ that I believe is there with the typical amp/preamp or?? iec connection is IMO an issue. The current vogue for iec connections and the strong after market power cord industry is not going to be in favor of this, but I feel that we are loosing SQ because of it.
I have alluded to that in a different post about how marketing runs the consumer space. A belief is created and from that a market is spurned and money is to be made in that market and space. I sincerely believe, have not checked it and verified recently but have some to do it by force of faith and habit that Power Quality is the basis of great sound. My systems whatever they are, have always run on extremely clean AC. I actually make my own AC and it is as good as it gets. Details later if one cares ... So I have good AC.
I would quietly grant (not my opinion but I respect that someone thnk the contrary) that IC and Speaker cables could make a difference. The rest of the cables is up in the air for me especially Power cords. For the purpose of getting the AC to the AC to DC converter that the power supplies are an IEC is as good as anything you can have. Soldering should not make a difference>So allow me to bow out that discussion on the IEC connectors. However on the Marketing front, saying that it was carefully welded in the space station with a 99.9999999999999% silver soldier under constant pressure by a robotic arm could make us hear many more details but .. I digress and will stop there...
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."Hi
No intention to crap on the thread but this is a discussion forum so here is my take on the issue for ..further discussions
... aren't we getting to the point of no appreciable returns except for what we fabricate in our mind when it comes to that ? Hardwiring everything? Once we've done it and we sit down and listen then aren't we predisposed to hear differences and find things that were never there ? How reliable such observations can be? Then the question has to be asked: if and when we become dissatisfied with said products so lovely hardwired and whose warranties we have so thoroughly voided by our loving hardwiring, how do we dispose of said components? So that we can fund the next to-be-hard-wired components? It is one of those extreme things that some of us do and will claim it to be the only way to go but so unpractical and the benefits so minimal to non-existent as to explain why this is not more often done!
There is a belief that everything matters in High End Audio and come to think it of it everything matters ...in any sector of life... Things are indeed more connected than we realize.. Yet.. One specific butterfly landing on a flower in Australia could be said to have no impact on my life as it is presently here in Haiti .. Same for the electrons for that notion of cable settling and the likes ..
YMMV but most audiophiles don't do it (hardwiring) and for good reasons. I don't see this changing... ever... and no one will lose anything from not doing it.
This quote is pointing us in the direction of this thread, no?
Davey asked me what exactly I had Hardwired in my system. I slowly bettered equipment & cabling, then started into the lowering of mass in connectors, then into hardwiring, returning to wires & cutting the ends off, to the sound of wire types, solder (4% silver was such a gain I have stayed there for now)(20 yrs now) & removal of metal posts in equipment, crossovers & drivers, dielectrics. Each step was a methodical removal & then another to follow the changes if perceivable or better or worse. Soldering in fuses was a bit of a challenge so after a while with a piece if it didn't blow any I would remove the fuse holders & wire direct, this always made a positive gain in power available/presence of soundstage. Shorter runs were always better except for the digital hookups A meter does sound best. I have always spent hundreds of hours with a set up before making a change to be very familiar with the resulting sound a change might make. The only times I have not been able to perceive a change is when using all the stock connectors. That's not to say a genuine quality jump in a cables metal purity or connectors minimalist approach wasn't heard but stock & cheep fitting or zip wires or extension cords as speaker wire just more or less all sound the same congested, flat, compressed sound stage, lack of frequency response, muddied bass & midrange plus lack of air. To stir the pot more, You can hear the difference in new wire to burnt in wire (200hrs is a good start continuos use broad range music). One of the most rewarding, fun (Scotsman saving a buck vs increasing returns) was the S-5 amp hardwiring, those things are real gems, for the money & fun/liquid sound, that's not to say other's were less impressive but for so little mounted on a block of wood?
Hard wiring would move you in an entire different level of complexity .. Not of simplicity wouldn't you say? Just for kickers ... AC outlet should be suitably hardwired too ... Soldered in that case ... Complexity and an incredible level of inconvenience and potentially dangerous too ... Not a good recipe in my book.
Well....it is all in how we are individually hardwired no? It's not complicated at all, time consuming depending on the piece of equipment, pain in the ass if you want to flip things in & out regularly but the gains are worth it & to take your time to study the effect of such things is how I am made up so it's not a problem. As a kid I would take a hammer to a clock to see how it was made & then make something else out of it & so what's to be afraid of? I was raised by an industrial electrician, a carpenter/stone mason grandfather, artistic mother, it's just in the genes to look beyond what's before me & see what (if anything) can be done with it
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