Master Built-What are Owners Hearing That They Didn't Hear With Other Cables

JackD201 · Sep 20, 2016

Jazzhead said:
This is like loggerheads at the NATO summit

I don't know about that LOL

Cable talk rarely ends well. I think it just boils down to how difficult the effects are to communicate. For every "super-conductor" there's one that "makes even the lowest octaves directional". It is what it is. One will always be able to pick something out to blast. See? In the end, they either work for you or they don't, just like anything else.

So why has M+B (there's another good cable company named MB) been flying so low under the radar? Their distributors have been busy making speakers and the guys assembling them have been busy making cables. The materials are from a big company but the assembly operation is a small one. I don't think they will be scaling up anytime soon given the size and nature of the market. All my cables were made to order and I believe it is the same for everybody here who has chimed in.

With cables being such a contentious subject, I don't think anybody would be surprised that people would rather just keep things to themselves. I haven't sold that many sets but there are three members here that have them. Over here where culture is such that direct comparisons are deemed rude, yes no Coke vs Pepsi ads allowed, rarely will you see the comments because the eventual question is "what did it replace". It's just too much of a hassle even if whatever it replaced doesn't really matter. Was I as excited as Steve when I had my moment? Yes. Does it mean that the cables they replaced are in the least bit bad? Hell no. They are in my cousin's system now and that system sounds great. I just don't get why everything has to be about who can **** higher than the next guy. Worse, who can gain the most converts while battling inquisitors. Suddenly that thread about audio being like a religion is starting to make sense! LOL.

Steve Williams · Sep 20, 2016

Sorry, Steve, you're wrong. I found nothing offensive in Amir's post. There is nothing wrong with pointing out the history of someone on a given issue. I note that you haven't refuted his assertions.

perhaps, but given the history I doubt it

Steve Williams · Sep 20, 2016

because the eventual question is "what did it replace". It's just too much of a hassle even if whatever it replaced doesn't really matter. Was I as excited as Steve when I had my moment? Yes. Does it mean that the cables they replaced are in the least bit bad? Hell no. They are in my cousin's system now and that system sounds great. I just don't get why everything has to be about who can **** higher than the next guy.

I completely agree

Just because something is better doesn't make what it replaced bad.

Al M. · Sep 20, 2016

JackD201 said:
Suddenly that thread about audio being like a religion is starting to make sense! LOL.

Seems like it.

ack · Sep 20, 2016

The big news of the day is that Brangelina is over... there is no hope for us audio netizens

Steve Williams · Sep 20, 2016

ack said:
The big news of the day is that Brangelina is over... there is no hope for us audio netizens

There is hope for Jennifer A. after all or did she just have a baby

ddk · Sep 20, 2016

Steve Williams said:
I completely agree

Just because something is better doesn't make what it replaced bad.

In this case it does too late to pull punches now Steve

! If a wire is trashed to the extent you've described it by another, "I hear my Lamms for the for the first time" when you can hear your Lamms even with a Radio Shack loom, it was pretty caca.

david

NorthStar · Sep 20, 2016

amirm said:
Having someone go from believing in cables making a difference, then believing that they absolutely don't, and now insisting on revolutionary changes to sound in some specific brand, is not at all explained by what you say Peter. Steve has created this thread pleading with us that his observations are true. He is seeking approval from the community and support from fellow users. In that context, I shared my personal views of his journey that unfortunately his judgement of cable fidelity is unreliable and not durable. You can't possibly flip flop so many times in such large magnitude as to go to the objectivist camp and then say, "you have to believe me; this is the most important change I have heard in my system."

You expressed your opinion, my turn.

I disagree with the highlighted text above. Some people are open minded and they tell it like it is; I am certain of this. We adapt with each day, we advance in life, and we make the best of it. We use our past experiences not as sour history but as a reminder that what lies ahead today is the real essence. No prose, no rambling, no nothing but the real truth. We skip past history that brings us to a halt, because it's counterproductive. And audiophiles and audio scientists are pro visionaries with a limpid perspective of reality, human senses.

No prose, no rambling, no mickey mouse froot loop gadget toy in the box. :b

The members here who heard their music exposed to higher resonances, with more details, liquid clarity, better conductivity, etc.; I fully trust them.
It must be an awesome experience of the body and soul when the music open up to higher dimensions. Rejoice for your brothers and sisters who are living this experience yesterday, today and tomorrow.
________

As an aside (reading is free, no one is forcing, listening is free, no one is forcing, money is irrelevant, love of the music we love is, and people we love and we learn to love):

• http://stereos.about.com/od/accesso...ables-Make-A-Difference-Science-Weighs-In.htm
• http://stereos.about.com/od/optimiz...The-Scientific-Perspective-Part-2.htm#showall
_____

* Mike (Blizzard); he is a source of high knowledge, a benefit to the audio advancement in the digital age we all are part of.
It is extremely sad that personal conflicts interfere with our audio advancement. I had to say it, because as humans we learn to live each day with one another; we don't discard people just like that because of personal disagreements. That I truly believe and value. As intelligent people we communicate with the tools that permit us all to advance in our audio/music hobby/passion. What's best is exactly that. On all things life and living.
_____

Now back to Master Built cables. And I hope one day that we'll all benefit, for the love of the music. ...Old, young, everyone.
For now only the well heeled have the opportunity to expand their emotional connection closer with the music, the artist musicians/singers.

If I was an audio dealer, I would carry Master Built products, and VSA loudspeakers, and others. Plus, I would carry music too, from the best quality music record labels.
It is in the emotional proximity to the artists we love and from listening to them that we are more connected to this magic and magnificent lifestyle. And anything that helps to make that experience more transparently spacious and holographic, including better audio signal transmission, the best.

We are people, and it is not our duty to live better among ourselves, it is our responsibility.

No prose, no rambling, no bull, no mickey mouse comic cardboard cartoon, no colored cereals, just higher grounds in the music delivery system, from the music that rocks our soul gently with grace, dignity, civility, respect, message of love in a bottle. Master Built seems to agree. :b I have no doubt.

If I had a high resolving system I would immediately ask a dealer for a loan of some Master Built cables, in a minute second.

Steve Williams · Sep 20, 2016

well David, then you might want to try it. You might be surprised

Leif S · Sep 20, 2016

Hi All,

I just wanted to jump in here to address some of the community that have steered the discussion on the observed performance of MasterBuilt Audio cables by numerous independent and unbiased sources towards perceived excessive marketing hype. While I assume know one hear is arguing that company websites aren't marketing tools, we do want to address some of the issues raised.

Thanks for highlighting the issues you had with the MasterBuilt website. Our desire has always been to under promise and over deliver in regards to MB’s performance. Doing so keeps the focus on what this cable can possibly do for your system as it should. To that end, we’ve removed any references by name to the projects it’s conductors have been used in.

On another note, my partner Damon has posted clearly that we will not be publicly stating MasterBuilt's proprietary technology to the point where other engineers or manufactures can understand.

Here is the post from the previous thread

Damon Von Schweikert said:
Now as for discussing the technology involved with MasterBuilt’s performance, I’m going to wear my distributors hat here and be very frank. We have no interest in publicly illustrating any of their proprietary technology.

In order to address by documentation the understandable skepticism (frankly the same we approach anyone else’s claims), we would need to publicly explain in great technical detail how MasterBuilt achieves its performance. This explanation would inevitably involve a detailed discussions on their competitors and WHY MasterBuilt outperforms them based largely on the errors (from MB’s perspective) they’ve made in their development. Our goal is to market these cables and we’re very comfortable inviting people to hear the difference for themselves, in A/B/X shootouts or otherwise. But there is no logical reason to reveal proprietary information and in the course, educate the competition.

I got to hear Steve's system and I have NEVER heard Wilson speakers sound like this before. "World Class". And I'm another speaker manufacture lol.

I'm not going to tell people how we design speakers. Why would you think MasterBuilt is going to tell you how they design cables? If you find these cables beneficial to your system, great. If not, c'est la vie.

I just hope future discussions will focus more on user experiences with these cables which is the stated purpose of this thread.

ddk · Sep 20, 2016

Steve Williams said:
well David, then you might want to try it. You might be surprised

I never said anything about what you're getting only about what you had

!

david

Steve Williams · Sep 20, 2016

And I know what you have and suggest you try it

ddk · Sep 20, 2016

Steve Williams said:
And I know what you have and suggest you try it

I will once the dust settles down here, it seems like Leif has his hands full for now anyway.

david

NorthStar · Sep 20, 2016

JackD201 said:
I don't know about that LOL

Cable talk rarely ends well. I think it just boils down to how difficult the effects are to communicate. For every "super-conductor" there's one that "makes even the lowest octaves directional". It is what it is. One will always be able to pick something out to blast. See? In the end, they either work for you or they don't, just like anything else.

So why has M+B (there's another good cable company named MB) been flying so low under the radar? Their distributors have been busy making speakers and the guys assembling them have been busy making cables. The materials are from a big company but the assembly operation is a small one. I don't think they will be scaling up anytime soon given the size and nature of the market. All my cables were made to order and I believe it is the same for everybody here who has chimed in.

With cables being such a contentious subject, I don't think anybody would be surprised that people would rather just keep things to themselves. I haven't sold that many sets but there are three members here that have them. Over here where culture is such that direct comparisons are deemed rude, yes no Coke vs Pepsi ads allowed, rarely will you see the comments because the eventual question is "what did it replace". It's just too much of a hassle even if whatever it replaced doesn't really matter. Was I as excited as Steve when I had my moment? Yes. Does it mean that the cables they replaced are in the least bit bad? Hell no. They are in my cousin's system now and that system sounds great. I just don't get why everything has to be about who can **** higher than the next guy. Worse, who can gain the most converts while battling inquisitors. Suddenly that thread about audio being like a religion is starting to make sense! LOL.

Hi Jack, what I like most about our hobby are the "secrets". :b
If there are ways to be closer emotionally connected to our music, and that we can learn it from guys like you, it makes us advancing in grand charm in our pursuit of happiness.

Also, if Master Built cables open the door to a more transparent world, the better it is and other cables from other manufacturers with high prices have much more to learn.
Let's be clear here; the other cable's manufacturers might be good with their products but they still restrict all the music information to go through. Brief, they are "limiting" our emotional music freedom by not allowing the crystal pure audio signals to reach our ears. They are congesting, collapsing the full signal's integrity. They did not intend to do so, but it ends up that way.
Only when faced with overtures that we can clearly hear for the better that all previous claims and experiences become more extinct.
That, in the perspective of WBF's philosophy.

PeterA · Sep 20, 2016

amirm said:
Thanks Peter for trying to explain the unexplainable here. But really, are we compare Mike/Blizzard to Steve? I hope we don't go there .

As I mentioned I learned about Steve's opinion of cables from forming this joint venture. The topic came up to rationalize our differing views of audio with Steve mentioning that he sees no value in audiophile cables as a common ground for both of us. During the ensuing years, I spent a lot of time communicating with Steve, far more than anyone else here would in casual audiophile encounters. This was a constant in his view as evidenced by the thread I post where he actually took the position of *objectivists* when it came to cables. Steve had gone through decades of being an audiophile and then having an aha moment that got him to ditch all of those views.

That is the Steve I knew and the conclusion of his nearly lifelong endeavour. During that time I am sure he had heard many other people's systems, none of which had changed his views.

Having someone go from believing in cables making a difference, then believing that they absolutely don't, and now insisting on revolutionary changes to sound in some specific brand, is not at all explained by what you say Peter. Steve has created this thread pleading with us that his observations are true. He is seeking approval from the community and support from fellow users. In that context, I shared my personal views of his journey that unfortunately his judgement of cable fidelity is unreliable and not durable. You can't possibly flip flop so many times in such large magnitude as to go to the objectivist camp and then say, "you have to believe me; this is the most important change I have heard in my system."

Now, opinions can advance and we can reserve the right to become smarter. If so, then a modicum of modesty would be in order rather than coming out and throwing swords at me and others. The comments should be, "while I have been wrong about cable assessments before, I think this is a good one." Not like, "you all are idiots if you don't go and listen to this cable." No, we would be idiots if we believed the latest opinion as valid given the past history.

So no, the situation is not as simple as you say Peter.

I don't see it that way, Amir. Note your statements in BOLD. Steve created this thread because I, and perhaps others, suggested that the discussion deserved its own thread, for focus, and later reference. I don't see him seeking approval from the community. He clearly stated that he is keeping these cables and wants to buy more. He is not calling anyone "idiots". And since when do members tell other members what comments should be?

There is a long history between the two of you, that much is clear. I just wish that history would not distract us from the discussions in this thread.

PeterA · Sep 20, 2016

microstrip said:
1) Damon Von Schweikert is very friendly and receptive guy - I exchanged a few PMs with him and he immediately addressed what I found that could be misleading or inaccurate from the Master Built site. Probably it will take some time before it disappears from sites of retailers.

3) Oscilloscopes do not have accuracy enough to check that wave forms are passed with adulteration. IMHO no meaningful simple measurement in the audio band will be able to differentiate MB cables from any others.

I have seen results of cables being tested. The corners of square waves were enlarged to extremes so that differences were easily identified between different brands. I don't know the first thing about testing cables, but the differences in these images left a big impression on me. All of the corners looks square and sharp under the standard magnification. But when enlarged to extremes, the differences were huge. Some were just rounded corners, others showed a lot of back and forth oscillation. Others showed overshoot. And one or two remained almost perfectly square and sharp. I could not interpret the results, and they were proprietary, but they were very interesting. I don't know if an oscilloscope was used.

YashN · Sep 20, 2016

ack said:
The big news of the day is that Brangelina is over... there is no hope for us audio netizens

hahaha!

As an aside, if you go back up the thread, you can see with certainty at what precise point it is going to go downhill just as before.

If you can't change your mind when something better comes along, you're the problem. Don't feed the troll, guys, we already know where that brings us all.

NorthStar · Sep 20, 2016

Quote Originally Posted by Damon Von Schweikert
"Now as for discussing the technology involved with MasterBuilt’s performance, I’m going to wear my distributors hat here and be very frank. We have no interest in publicly illustrating any of their proprietary technology.

In order to address by documentation the understandable skepticism (frankly the same we approach anyone else’s claims), we would need to publicly explain in great technical detail how MasterBuilt achieves its performance. This explanation would inevitably involve a detailed discussions on their competitors and WHY MasterBuilt outperforms them based largely on the errors (from MB’s perspective) they’ve made in their development. Our goal is to market these cables and we’re very comfortable inviting people to hear the difference for themselves, in A/B/X shootouts or otherwise. But there is no logical reason to reveal proprietary information and in the course, educate the competition."

Makes perfect sense.

And I also agree with manufacturer's advertising; this is the world we live in...even any president of any country...they advertise themselves to sell.
No prose, no rambling, no claim, no discourse, no adds, no bull, no no no ...

c1ferrari · Sep 20, 2016

Steve Williams said:
My wife gets back on Wed. I haven't shaved in 3 days because I'm in my room all day.

Haha!
Loved reading that, Steve!
Sonny and I are on break -- we should have dinner when you and Cathy are available.
Let us know.

BobShermanEsq · Sep 20, 2016

amirm said:
Thanks Peter for trying to explain the unexplainable here. But really, are we compare Mike/Blizzard to Steve? I hope we don't go there .

As I mentioned I learned about Steve's opinion of cables from forming this joint venture. The topic came up to rationalize our differing views of audio with Steve mentioning that he sees no value in audiophile cables as a common ground for both of us. During the ensuing years, I spent a lot of time communicating with Steve, far more than anyone else here would in casual audiophile encounters. This was a constant in his view as evidenced by the thread I post where he actually took the position of *objectivists* when it came to cables. Steve had gone through decades of being an audiophile and then having an aha moment that got him to ditch all of those views.

That is the Steve I knew and the conclusion of his nearly lifelong endeavour. During that time I am sure he had heard many other people's systems, none of which had changed his views.

Having someone go from believing in cables making a difference, then believing that they absolutely don't, and now insisting on revolutionary changes to sound in some specific brand, is not at all explained by what you say Peter. Steve has created this thread pleading with us that his observations are true. He is seeking approval from the community and support from fellow users. In that context, I shared my personal views of his journey that unfortunately his judgement of cable fidelity is unreliable and not durable. You can't possibly flip flop so many times in such large magnitude as to go to the objectivist camp and then say, "you have to believe me; this is the most important change I have heard in my system."

Now, opinions can advance and we can reserve the right to become smarter. If so, then a modicum of modesty would be in order rather than coming out and throwing swords at me and others. The comments should be, "while I have been wrong about cable assessments before, I think this is a good one." Not like, "you all are idiots if you don't go and listen to this cable." No, we would be idiots if we believed the latest opinion as valid given the past history.

So no, the situation is not as simple as you say Peter.

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