Tesla Model Y performance

[Mike Lavigne]

I think most dealers hate EV s , because most make their money on maintenance costs lol

auto workers building cars make their money when there are more parts, like ICE engines and transmissions.

with EV's there is a one-piece battery pack and mostly even a whole one-piece underbody drive module that the body is attached to. much less labor to assemble.

this is a current serious driver of political choices that modified the EV rules from the Biden admin. UAW had to be accommodated. money. power. especially in swing states.

it's all a game to those guys. money. power.

 

[andromedaaudio]

auto workers building cars make their money when there are more parts, like ICE engines and transmissions.

with EV's there is a one-piece battery pack and mostly even a whole one-piece underbody drive module that the body is attached to. much less labor to assemble.

this is a current serious driver of political choices that modified the EV rules from the Biden admin. UAW had to be accommodated. money. power. especially in swing states.

it's all a game to those guys. money. power.

This political EV push is killing the european Car industry .
Low cost / easy to make in large quantaties , ....cant beat the chinese there

 

[andromedaaudio]

I was in india a couple of weeks ago and last week in cameroon .
Nobody gives a flying F about exhaust fumes / pollution

 

[Elliot G.]

I think most dealers hate EV s , because most make their money on maintenance costs lol

look at US car inventories and how many days supplies they have on many EV's

 

[Joe Whip]

I was in india a couple of weeks ago and last week in cameroon .
Nobody gives a flying F about exhaust fumes / pollution

Having been in Mumbai and Delhi, the air quality was atrocious.

 

[Joe Whip]

This political EV push is killing the european Car industry .
Low cost / easy to make in large quantaties , ....cant beat the chinese there

Even without EVs, Chinese companies should worry European OEMs. BYD is a real threat to them all and would be even if there were no EVs. Just like when the Japanese cleaned the clocks of the big 3 in the US.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Even without EVs, Chinese companies should worry European OEMs. BYD is a real threat to them all and would be even if there were no EVs. Just like when the Japanese cleaned the clocks of the big 3 in the US.

if you take the time to actually read the below article.....Chinese EV's for the EU are not really ready for prime time. they are speed restricted and just not really sorted out to play in a mature market. in China the threshold is much lower for performance. and the public transportation alternatives are much worse. and EV subsidies for EV built units are also an issue. check back in 5 years.

trade restrictions are huge for North American participation so that's not much of an issue here.

in the 70's Japanese cars actually had quality and performance advantages over the fat and happy domestic brands. huge difference. American buyers knew of Japanese motorcycle quality already. and VW was more the target. legacy labor costs made the domestic brands relatively uncompetitive and ripe for the picking.

and Japan was not the enemy/threat to the west China is mostly.

BYD And Chinese EV Win In Europe Might Be Delayed

Chinese EVs are said to be cheaper than Europe's with good quality and a 30% price advantage. Their expected triumph though will be delayed by some short-term factors.

www.forbes.com

 

[Kingrex]

So, If I can charge a car with solar or wind, use no gas or fossil fuels of any type to operate the car, how is is that one only saves 30% over an ICE car? The costs to manufacture both types are a wash. Even without home solar, the energy grid is getting greener and greener. look at Texas, which now how more solar than Cali. No tailpipe emissions and even better, no engine noise.

If I was to try and tell you something. You would root your feet in the earth and plug your ears. If you have any curiosity, go look for yourself. You can find lots of data to support the total life cycle cost of all electric vehicle sheds nothing near what you think it sheds. You can also easily find vague cheerleading to drive your beliefs. But the more through analysis with complete data on raw materials to end of life waste cost are where the truth lies.

 

[Joe Whip]

if you take the time to actually read the below article.....Chinese EV's for the EU are not really ready for prime time. they are speed restricted and just not really sorted out to play in a mature market. in China the threshold is much lower for performance. and the public transportation alternatives are much worse. and EV subsidies for EV built units are also an issue. check back in 5 years.

trade restrictions are huge for North American participation so that's not much of an issue here.

in the 70's Japanese cars actually had quality and performance advantages over the fat and happy domestic brands. huge difference. American buyers knew of Japanese motorcycle quality already. and VW was more the target. legacy labor costs made the domestic brands relatively uncompetitive and ripe for the picking.

and Japan was not the enemy/threat to the west China is mostly.

BYD And Chinese EV Win In Europe Might Be Delayed

Chinese EVs are said to be cheaper than Europe's with good quality and a 30% price advantage. Their expected triumph though will be delayed by some short-term factors.

www.forbes.com

I was referring to all BYD vehicles, not just EVs, the German car makers realize the threat,

 

[Joe Whip]

If I was to try and tell you something. You would root your feet in the earth and plug your ears. If you have any curiosity, go look for yourself. You can find lots of data to support the total life cycle cost of all electric vehicle sheds nothing near what you think it sheds. You can also easily find vague cheerleading to drive your beliefs. But the more through analysis with complete data on raw materials to end of life waste cost are where the truth lies.

I have read all the stuff about recycling. And did a deepdive on Redwood materials for investment purposes. I can throw your comments right back at you but only your research and opinions are valid I guess.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I was referring to all BYD vehicles, not just EVs, the German car makers realize the threat,

a few years ago, i was an investor in an effort to import a Chinese built vehicle into the U.S. in that process, i did learn a great deal about how those products do not measure up, and what it might involve to get them to market. and i have the write-off to prove it.

i drove the Chinese vehicles which were to be the basis of the effort.

they have a long way to go, to go head to head. it's easy to see why they keep trying to steal expertise. in particular areas they do achieve certain things. but the end product is not there.

there are many great cars for sale in the US and Europe......the bar is very high. customers have particular expectations.

like i said, check back in 5 years. things might change.

for Honda i know it cost about $2.5 Billion with a 'B' and 3-4 years, to do a new model change-over, for an existing model line. that has to be amortized over how ever many units (500,000 to 3 million for Honda's USA models, maybe double that for world wide models) in the 4-5 year run for that generation. and Honda is a world expert and has all the assets in place to do it right. to take a Chinese product and get it to be EU or USA converted would be almost the same. depends on how many parts would change, how different the drive train would need to be, the safety, the emissions, the materials. and that's if they have the expertise. could it be done? sure, if the will to do it is sufficient. even after all that, will the market accept it? a big gamble. you are starting from zero trying to get sales momentum. and no distribution or dealers. will the price/value equation remaining be enough to move the market? break into share of current solid leaders?

big reasons it has not been done yet. waaaaay easier for western manufacturers to enter the Chinese marketplace. they are the experts. it's not a design challenge, just an assembly challenge. the design cost is already amortized. and maybe some de-contenting. so big profits, small risk.

 

[Kingrex]

I have read all the stuff about recycling. And did a deepdive on Redwood materials for investment purposes. I can throw your comments right back at you but only your research and opinions are valid I guess.

That first part of my post was deleted as it was crap I never meant to post. Slipped past my wait an hour filter.

Ok, I just went through a very comprehensive fuel institute study. A hybrid is 29% lower total life emissions based on 200,000 miles. A full EV 41% lower. Another way to see it is the electric vehicle still creates darn near 60% the polution of a ICE. It helps, but its nowhere near the 0 emissions people fantasize about.

There is another consideration to ponder over. Those that can afford an all electric vehicle of a premium brand and toute their virtue as a good citizen, probably spew loads more overall emissions that far exceed any savings from owning an electric car. They may own pools, have large houses to heat and cool, travel by airplane often. Their general consumption of all things can be extremely high. The car is a status symbol of the excessive consumption life they might lead.

 

[Joe Whip]

The EU is threatening to impose retroactive tariffs on Chinese vehicles in addition to tariffs on new imports. BYD is scarring the hell out of the OEMs there.

 

[marty]

Interesting thread. My wife is suggesting our next car should be a gas powered hybrid. Since these usually cost about 5K over their ordinary gas-powered versions, I'm not sure I see the attraction but I'm studying it. Personally, I cannot see getting an electronic plug-in unless you intend to charge it in your own garage by putting in a 220V charger as the infrastructure for nation-wide charging isn't there yet, nor is the attraction to own an EV in cold weather climates such as the Northeast. And sorry John Kerry, but buying an EV to save the environment is not on my short list of things to aspire to (since it will hardly accomplish that but let''s avoid politics here.)

Perhaps someone can help me answer this question- when I go to park at Newark airport, I see charging stations in the parking garage. If someone is charging their car in one of those stations, which takes perhaps a few hours, but they are traveling for say 2-3 days, what happens to the car after it is charged? I don't see anyone or any service removing those cars from the charging stations. Do they remain there until the owner returns? What if they are gone a week or two? Seems like that station can't be used until the owner's car is removed, which might be long after it is charged. It's surely a dumb question but I am happy to learn the answer!

 

[djsina2]

nor is the attraction to own an EV in cold weather climates such as the Northeast.

Man, this is the best part about owning an EV!

 

[Joe Whip]

I live in the northeast and have no issues. Yes, you lose charge in cold weather but you can reduce the loss somewhat by preconditioning the battery. You also lose gas mileage in cold weather too, with Teslas, tge system is very accurate in predicting mileage. I have 8 years driving Teslas, but what do I know.

 

[bryans]

Ok, I just went through a very comprehensive fuel institute study. A hybrid is 29% lower total life emissions based on 200,000 miles. A full EV 41% lower. Another way to see it is the electric vehicle still creates darn near 60% the polution of a ICE. It helps, but its nowhere near the 0 emissions people fantasize about.

WOW if we could cut emissions just in the US by 10% I would think that is awesome. Now if an EV saves 41% or produces 59% pollution of an ICE, isn't that good?

I agree with you if people think 0% that's fantasy.

 

[bryans]

Personally, I cannot see getting an electronic plug-in unless you intend to charge it in your own garage by putting in a 220V charger as the infrastructure for nation-wide charging isn't there yet

I was under the impression that upwards of 90% of EV charging is done at home. If I had one without a doubt I would install 220V. We are still in the early stages of EVs. I'm sure the nation-wide infrastructure will continue to improve.

 

[Steve Williams]

We’ve had both cars for almost a year and in that time we have only charged 8x at a supercharger. The Tesla supercharger infrastructure is what makes it appealing as it is easy to drive across the country knowing when and where the next Tesla charging station is The big savings is charging at home between midnight and 0600 on weekdays and from midnight to 2:00 PM weekends

 

[Levitator]

95% of our charging is done at home, and using our solar whenever possible. We have 3 phase power so charging is relatively quick - certainly way cheaper than paying for fuel!