Slate article on Audiophiles

Diapason said:

If I'm being honest, I think we audiophiles do ourselves no favours by banging the "it's all about the music" drum either. There are plenty of music-lovers out there who get by just fine with lo-fi stuff, and I certainly don't think I "enjoy" music any more than they do. I know the point is that the gear and the sonics are all in service of music, but I think we should acknowledge that the sound itself is an important part of our enjoyment. Let's own up to that. It's not the same as being a gear slut, or loving the toys merely for their own sake, but it's not *all* about the music either.

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While I agree that a lot of audiophile enjoyment, including mine, lies in the sound itself, better music reproduction indeed can further musical understanding. With the exception of attending live concerts of course, I have never before been able to follow the inner voicings of a symphony or of a larger jazz ensemble, or to appreciate the complexity of the polyphony of the music from an ensemble playing modern avantgarde, to the extent I am now able to achieve due to the much greater resolution of musical strands on my system over the average system or an iPod. This clearly has a great influence on depth of musical understanding. A famous composer of modern 'classical' music, Stockhausen, also has emphasized the importance of quality music reproduction.

Also, when speaking of the sound itself, more realistic sound reproduction makes you appreciate the musical event as such more. You can identify with the players more and be in the moment of the music itself. This can also bring you closer to the music, as it ceases to be a more abstract phenomenon.

I know that plenty of my non-audiophile friends despise the air of superiority that tacitly goes with the audiophile position, and I can certainly see why. It's perfectly reasonable for people to say "I enjoy my music just fine on my iPod" because they probably do. I've chosen to spend a lot of money on a system that possibly/probably brings me no more enjoyment than their iPod brings them.

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I can tell you for certain that after having become an audiophile I enjoy the music more. Granted, the thrill from my old favorite rock bands has in my youth probably more or less been the same as now, or even more than now, and is on my system not much greater than when I hear the music on the radio these days, with the exception of visceral impact, of course. Yet my musical tastes have widened tremendously during my audiophile years, as has my musical understanding, see also above. But that is also due to my musical self-education over the years, which has progressed by leaps and bounds over my youth. I can tell you with confidence, however, that for example modern avantgarde music is far less enjoyable at lesser audio quality than it is on a good system or in the concert hall. Right now I am frustrated by being kept at some distance from the music of a modern string quartet piece by a young composer whose music I admire,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPdZBFIC6ig

due to the Youtube sound quality than I know would be the case had I seen the piece live (the Boston snow was in the way at the time) or listened to in great CD quality at home. I just know that under these better circumstances the musical tension and differentiation of sound would be much greater.

You can enjoy music on an iPod greatly -- up to a point. If you want to go beyond that point you have to have a good system or go to a live concert. Yes, you can "enjoy music just fine on an iPod", but "just fine" sometimes is not enough.

You can see why they wonder. The only worthwhile rebuttal is to just sit people down and let them listen. That's the real heart of this hobby, it's open to all and it requires no special skills.

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Not with the intention to sound overbearing, but music appreciation, at least that of more complex music, does require special skills that can be learned.

Al, I don't think we disagree on much here (which is a bit boring, I know!) I think the one part I don't *necessarily* agree with is:

You can enjoy music on an iPod greatly -- up to a point. If you want to go beyond that point you have to have a good system or go to a live concert. Yes, you can "enjoy music just fine on an iPod", but "just fine" sometimes is not enough.

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I'm fortunate to know a few really fine musicians and musicologists, many of whom lecture or teach at conservatories and universities. Not one of them is an audiophile, and while all of them appreciate good sound when they hear it, it doesn't seem to matter much to them in their appreciation and understanding of music. Certainly they attend more concerts than most, but in a place like Ireland you're going to go through most of your career without having heard vast swathes of repertoire in a live setting. Still, it doesn't seem to have stopped them, and they can build an appreciation and an in-depth knowledge of music with relatively bog-standard playback systems.

Now, in my case, improved playback at home has absolutely expanded and deepened my own musical appreciation, but it doesn't seem to be that way for everybody. Audiophile equipment is neither necessary nor sufficient in that regard.

Diapason said:

I'm not sure I agree that audiophiles are ridiculed more than wine-lovers or foodies or whatever else. In fact, I think the common theme on the ridicule front is that plenty of people can and do enjoy the same stuff without spending huge money on it. So, lots of people like drinking wine, but I often see those buying €1000 bottles ridiculed. Everyone likes to eat, but not everyone drops a few hundred Euro a head to eat at the top restaurants, and again I regularly see those that do facing the same sort of ridicule as audiophiles. The reason audiophiles get a lot of ribbing is because of cost, pure and simple. When the proverbial man-on-the-street sees cables advertised for tens of thousands of Euros, of COURSE they're going to chuckle. And if the best defence we can muster for such things is that they make a difference but you need to be an experienced listener to discern it, then such ridicule is utterly deserved IMO.

If I'm being honest, I think we audiophiles do ourselves no favours by banging the "it's all about the music" drum either. There are plenty of music-lovers out there who get by just fine with lo-fi stuff, and I certainly don't think I "enjoy" music any more than they do. I know the point is that the gear and the sonics are all in service of music, but I think we should acknowledge that the sound itself is an important part of our enjoyment. Let's own up to that. It's not the same as being a gear slut, or loving the toys merely for their own sake, but it's not *all* about the music either. I know that plenty of my non-audiophile friends despise the air of superiority that tacitly goes with the audiophile position, and I can certainly see why. It's perfectly reasonable for people to say "I enjoy my music just fine on my iPod" because they probably do. I've chosen to spend a lot of money on a system that possibly/probably brings me no more enjoyment than their iPod brings them. You can see why they wonder. The only worthwhile rebuttal is to just sit people down and let them listen. That's the real heart of this hobby, it's open to all and it requires no special skills.

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Diapason said:

Al, I don't think we disagree on much here (which is a bit boring, I know!) I think the one part I don't *necessarily* agree with is:



I'm fortunate to know a few really fine musicians and musicologists, many of whom lecture or teach at conservatories and universities. Not one of them is an audiophile, and while all of them appreciate good sound when they hear it, it doesn't seem to matter much to them in their appreciation and understanding of music. Certainly they attend more concerts than most, but in a place like Ireland you're going to go through most of your career without having heard vast swathes of repertoire in a live setting. Still, it doesn't seem to have stopped them, and they can build an appreciation and an in-depth knowledge of music with relatively bog-standard playback systems.

Now, in my case, improved playback at home has absolutely expanded and deepened my own musical appreciation, but it doesn't seem to be that way for everybody. Audiophile equipment is neither necessary nor sufficient in that regard.

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Great posts.

I am in agreement with you. I would add that we audiophiles need to admit that we are also enthralled by the "SOUND". We will apy a lot for gears that only work as beautifiers. More than audiophiles will listen to abject and soulless music for the quality of the recording. Please let's admit .. We love how it sounds ...

I am often jealous of people who just don their earbuds (from Apple or whoever)and enjoy the crap out of music ... Me!? No way my buds have to be the Etymotic research. No way can I enjoy music though the Apple buds ... Am I not missing the point ? Focusing on the sound and not the Music ? Of course! ... No amount of denial will cover this truth... I am OK with it though

For music I average one classical concert a week and listen to Led Zep bootlegs on youtube over earphones.

For audiophilia I love checking out systems and experimenting with tweaks just to see what works and what doesn't, and try to build my geek expertise.

Diapason said:

Al, I don't think we disagree on much here (which is a bit boring, I know!) I think the one part I don't *necessarily* agree with is:

You can enjoy music on an iPod greatly -- up to a point. If you want to go beyond that point you have to have a good system or go to a live concert. Yes, you can "enjoy music just fine on an iPod", but "just fine" sometimes is not enough.

Click to expand...

I'm fortunate to know a few really fine musicians and musicologists, many of whom lecture or teach at conservatories and universities. Not one of them is an audiophile, and while all of them appreciate good sound when they hear it, it doesn't seem to matter much to them in their appreciation and understanding of music. Certainly they attend more concerts than most, but in a place like Ireland you're going to go through most of your career without having heard vast swathes of repertoire in a live setting. Still, it doesn't seem to have stopped them, and they can build an appreciation and an in-depth knowledge of music with relatively bog-standard playback systems.

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Sure, that's why I said: "up to a point". I can be, and have been, enthralled by Beethoven's Ninth on a car radio too, and you can get a thorough understanding of the macrostructure of the work on a cheap system as well. Yet when it comes to being able to admire all the complex inner voicing, you have to have a good system, if a live performance is not available. Also, musicians and musicologists often use a score while listening. This is a game changer: I have been surprised how many voices I could hear in Bruckner's Ninth Symphony on a cheap cassette-player boom box with a score in hand, something hardly possible without it from such an inferior source. Yet I suspect that trained musicians' ears might also be able to hear more under those suboptimal circumstances even without reading a score.

And I still stand by my point that for much of modern avantgarde music a great system is of essential help. An average system simply cannot quite convey the musical tension of certain pieces that you can hear on a great system or in a live performance. Also, dissonant sounds tend to be grating, instead of exciting and in support of the musical structure, on an inferior system rather than on a good one, or even better, live. These might also be reasons why even many musicians cannot stand the more avantgarde versions of modern 'classical' music -- they may not have experienced the music live and instead rely on what they can hear from inferior reproduction at home.

Yet regarding the future of modern 'classical' music I am not worried. Older people may often not like it, but many young people do. I am living in the Boston area, and concerts by the ensemble Sound Icon, for example, often play in front of, albeit not large, but packed halls, filled with young people. They'd rather listen to such music than to Beethoven. I like to listen to both.

FrantzM said:

I would add that we audiophiles need to admit that we are also enthralled by the "SOUND". We will apy a lot for gears that only work as beautifiers.

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As I also said, a lot of audiophile enjoyment, including mine, lies in the sound itself too, yet it's about the music as well.

More than audiophiles will listen to abject and soulless music for the quality of the recording. Please let's admit .. We love how it sounds …

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I don't listen to abject and soulless music for the quality of the recording. In the end, it's still about the music. I like the best sound that I can get for the music/performances that I like, but if the recording still keeps on sounding rather bad, so be it. I listen to some performances where the sound would be found rather appalling by most audiophiles, but the musicality of the performances is so good that I don't care about sound. Case in point, the powerhouse performances of Haydn's complete symphonies under Dorati with the Philharmonia Hungarica (Decca).

Al M. said:

As I also said, a lot of audiophile enjoyment, including mine, lies in the sound itself too, yet it's about the music as well.



I don't listen to abject and soulless music for the quality of the recording. In the end, it's still about the music. I like the best sound that I can get for the music/performances that I like, but if the recording still keeps on sounding rather bad, so be it. I listen to some performances where the sound would be found rather appalling by most audiophiles, but the musicality of the performances is so good that I don't care about sound. Case in point, the powerhouse performances of Haydn's complete symphonies under Dorati with the Philharmonia Hungarica (Decca).

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I am with you there .. simply that once in a while we simply like how it sound son our system...

FrantzM said:

I am with you there .. simply that once in a while we simply like how it sound son our system...

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No objection here.

Al M. said:

... snip..

Not with the intention to sound overbearing, but music appreciation, at least that of more complex music, does require special skills that can be learned.

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I don't take it that way and I'm sure you are probably correct, but I'm also sure you understand that some people might take that as the sort of snobbery that isolates us audiophiles

Joe Galbraith said:

Slate just put up an article by Fred Kaplan. "I'm an Audiophile and I won't apologize for it"

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/..._brought_unfair_scorn_for_lovers_of_high.html

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Enjoyable read! Thank you for posting the link!

Whatmore said:

I think we are not being entirely honest with ourselves if we say that audiophiles are only interested in the music.
The gear is important....... there, I said it.

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The gear is important only to the degree that it facilitates sufficient 'Time Travel' - No?

Whatmore said:

I don't take it that way and I'm sure you are probably correct, but I'm also sure you understand that some people might take that as the sort of snobbery that isolates us audiophiles

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It's merely an esoteric statement: one meant for and understood by a select few. It's not snobbery - but esottery, if you will!

still-one said:

I disagree. I would rather listen to crappy recordings of music I like than well recorded trite aka Audiophile music. In reality very little music sounds bad on a good system.

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Good in - potentially good out - sure!

Bad in - potentially worse out - sure!

Bad in - potentially good/better out - never!

Bad is bad, and can only be made worse, not better! - That is our true reality!

It's all downhill, if you will; after the signal leaves the source.

mwhouston said:

To me a audiophile is one who passionately loves music and strives to enjoy that music in the very best way they possibly can within their means available.

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+1

EDIT: And a person who loves more than just the music is an audiodite! As in Audio-doer... They do audio, but typically fail to properly embrace it, and experience it!

Being transparent: I swing in and out of both behaviors. I am happiest when simply being in love.

+1 No matter what format - cd,s - vinyl - files - yes it's all about good sounding music.

When did it go from being about good music to being about good sounding music?

Whatmore said:

When did it go from being about good music to being about good sounding music?

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Because for ME it as to sound good to be enjoyable i did say for ME.