New music room

Hello everyone,
I have been following this forum for a long time, and I have learned a lot, but certainly not enough to design my new music room on my own. I would like to ask for suggestions and recommendations from all the experts that regularly frequent this forum.
I’m restructuring my house and building a dedicated 2 channel music room where I may later add a second 5+1 system .
At this moment, I’m still working on the main structure, but it’s time to study the final project.
The room is not perfectly symmetrical, the average size is 7.0m wide, 9.5m long and 3.6 to 6.1m high. On the long side, there is a gallery that goes into the wide side for 2.5m at a height of 2.9m from the floor.
The drawings will make the room shape more clear and shows also the external openings.
The walls are made with bricks and are 60cm thick. The short wall with three windows may have exposed bricks (how do exposed brick walls work acoustically?), while the long wall with the three windows has an additional insulation of 8cm + 2.5cm of dry wall the rest is flat wall, all to be furnished.
The ceiling has 8 long metal beams and exposed wood, as well as under the gallery.
My speakers are Quad 2905 (C,D) and two subwoofers (A,B) SVS PC13 Ultra, used as low speakers digitally crossed at 85 Hz with a Trinnov that I also use for room correction.
I’m trying to figure out where to place the speakers and the listening position and what kind of room treatment may be necessary.
On the drawings there are two possible positions based on my previous placement.



3d rendering of the gallery

The first solution is more symmetrical, there is more space on the sides of the speakers, the space above the speakers are the same, but there is less space in the back of the listening position which is below the gallery.
The second solution is preferable because aesthetically it is nicer, and there is more space in the back of the listening position, but in order to place the speakers parallel to the front wall, the other walls will be asymmetrical compared to the speakers, plus the left speaker will remain under the gallery.
Of course I will perform measurement and listening tests when the room will be almost finished, but I would like to foresee as much as possible while I can still make changes.

Thanks in advance for any feedback you may give me. Any comments will be appreciated.

P.S. Sorry for my English.

JackD201 said:

Bilaterally symmetrical is what I think Bruce meant to say. I would agree except if listening near field in the strictest sense in which case it wouldn't matter much at all.

Looking at the plans, it looks like the room will have very long reverberations. The first thing I would do is figure out what to use to treat the ceilings. All of them. Positioning of the windows will lend to the use of heavy drapes. Looks enough for a good percentile coverage.

If the plans were set in stone I would go long wall (first option). Sidewalls are far enough. In option two the top right corner looks worrisome. It looks like it will load up heavily on the LF.

Click to expand...

Thanks for everybody’s comments.
The symmetry has always been a big concern for me mainly for the stereo image, but in my previous room, which was very similar to the new one, but smaller, I was able to have a very good result placing the speakers parallel to the front wall and equidistant, at the speaker level, from the side walls (they were not perfectly parallel). The positioning was similar to the proposed second solution.
I believe that the limited lateral and vertical dispersion of my Quad make the lateral wall and ceiling reflections less dangerous. The new room is also bigger and side reflection asymmetry should be even less evident (I hope).
The first solution looks more symmetrical, but I’m worried about the limited space behind the listening position. Maybe the right corner LF load up in option two, can be limited experimenting with the two subwoofer positioning and some bass traps before the Trinnov correction.
Regarding the speaker positioning, I'm open to any other suggestion.
In order to have a better vertical symmetry I was thinking to use some suspended acoustic panel at the same level of the gallery that could help with the reverberation too.
For the ceiling and under the gallery I’m considering something like the TopAkustik panels, what kind of absorption level and frequency characteristic should I look for, and what should be the surface coverage? I’m worried that if I cover all the ceilings with the panels and I normally furnish the room, then it will sound too dead.
Regarding the windows (there are 7), I was planning for some thick curtains, especially behind the speakers.
As in my previous room, I was also planning to use some diffusor panels behind the speakers and on the first side reflections.

What do you think? I’m excited about this project, but still very perplexed as I have lots of doubts. I need all the help I can get. Thanks again for your contribution.

JackD201 said:

Looks doable Ivory. For the ceilings (between beams) my instinct would be to go for industrial/commercial solutions like that you would find in a modern airport terminal or sports complex in lieu of gypsum, marine ply or whatever you were planning to cover your insulation with. I wouldn't be looking at very wide bandwidth absorption at first. If you need more broadband or tuned absorption (which is still likely) that can be strategically added later with the clouds you are planning. This would kill the view from the gallery however. I'm pretty sure treating just the ceilings with what I've mentioned is not enough to make the room dead. It will however make the job easier going forward while maintaining aesthetics.

Click to expand...

Thank you Jack D. Following your suggestion, I'm first concentrating on choosing the right absorption material for the ceilings, trying to combine the best acoustic result with the aesthetics and the cost.
I found a useful link: threedB.com that provide a RT60 calculator and a large database of material and acoustic solutions. I don't know how calculations may correspond with the reality since it is difficult to stay with the RT60 under 0.5s. Probably, the normal furnishing will do the rest.
It seems that 3 inch of fiberglass board on the ceiling and under the gallery, give a good result, but I need to find an aesthetic solution.
I thought that moving to a larger room would have been better and make life easier, but I'm not so certain anymore....

microstrip said:

I missed the part about the 2905 in your first post. You are correct, the 2905 are much more insensitive to lateral reflections than typical box speakers. When John Atkinson listened to the ESL63 first time in the Quad factory, they were placed in an awkward configuration - one over the bench and the other on a tall chair and he reported the best stereo imaging he had ever experienced!

Your room dimensions are close to those of the room of the late SME founder Alastair Robertson-Aikman who used modified ESL63 - but he listened very far from them. (square = 1 feet x 1 feet)

Click to expand...

Very strange configuration! The only thing in common with my previous placement, is the distance from the speakers and the front wall that i found to be good around two meters. I really had a very good and stable stereo image and a deep and wide sound stage. In my room, sitting too far from the speakers was actually giving a flatter sound stage and a less defined stereo image. Anyway, it took me a long time to find a satisfying positioning for my Quad, that's why I'm worried for my new room.

JackD201 said:

The problem with fiber glass is that it is the fire rated acoustic fabric that can cost a whole lot of money. A LOT. That why I was suggesting perforated metal as a covering. With your ceiling height you'd have to strain to see the perforations. Drop it to beam level and you'll have lots of airspace and filling space for LF traps. Hole size and spacing will change depending on frequency targeted however. Best thing is that you can paint these any color you like.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately the perforated metal will change too much the aesthetic and the boss (my wife) didn’t approve it. I’m studying other solutions and, according to the simulator that give a RT60 of over 2 sec. with the empty room, using acoustic plaster on two walls (the other two are drywall), curtains over the windows, a carpet, and 40 sqr meter of fiberglass board (on the ceiling or under the gallery) I’m going under 0.5 sec. above 250Hz. I’m still too high at 125Hz but after a complete furnishing, library, CD/LP rack, I hope I can keep the RT60 around 0.45 sec. I will also add some diffractive panels behind the speakers and, especially if I chose the more symmetrical solution with the speakers on the long side, some absorbing panel behind the listening position. I also have the possibility to build some Helmholtz resonators using the volume inside the drywall with the openings right at the corners.
I have no experience and this is just theory, do you think it may work? Another question, does anybody knows if there is a drywall with acoustic absorbing characteristics so I can reduce the area of absorbing panels on the ceilings or maybe just use some clouds?
Thanks a lot for your help.

whart said:

I love the aesthetics of the room that is shown in the computer rendering. As to acoustics, I have a few questions (which may in turn generate helpful comments, since I'm eventually going to do a new room too).
1. I thought that non-parallel side walls were good- perhaps not to the extent of a 'fan' shape, like concert halls, but by a few degrees.
2. Ceiling height- I like high ceilings partly because I 'feel' better in such rooms- less claustrophic. As to how that affects acoustics, I assumed that could be dealt with by suspending diffusion panels- even open grid type panels- in appropriate places, including the first reflection point on the 'ceiling.'
3. That catwalk or gallery is very neat. If the room was higher in the back than in the front, couldn't one get away with a gallery running across the back wall ?(perhaps the facing aspect of the gallery platform would have to be treated in some way).

Click to expand...

Hi wart, I really care about this renovation project, not just for the music room, but also because is a nice building inside the walls of a mediaeval city in Italy.
Regarding your questions, I hope that the experts in the forum will give their contribution.

P.S. I didn't understand your last question.