Near Or Far Field Listening For This Room?

Gryphon8

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Oct 9, 2017
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Recently moved and having an audio room constructed in the basement, as no other room in the house afforded a closed door or a symetrical layout. The room is 24' x 16' x 8+' ceiling. However, there is a bulkhead which runs down one side of the room, which makes me think it's best to have my seating & speakers along the long wall, with the seating under the bulkhead (which is just shy of 1' thick x 2' wide). Does this sound like the best listening position for this room? The end with windows will be treated with heavy duty curtains, will float LVF on floor. Thoughts and ideas welcomed. Thank you.
 

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marty

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I don't know that I can provide guidance as to which room orientation will sound the best. However one suggestion would be to make sure you have enough AC outlets on which ever wall or walls you think might be necessary to power your components for whatever orientation you decide delivers the best sonic results. The last thing you want would be to come to a listening decision and then say "damn, I should have put in an extra quad outlet or two here or there". The cost is nominal to run a few extra lines for optimum flexibiity down the road. Good luck!
 

Gryphon8

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Oct 9, 2017
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I don't know that I can provide guidance as to which room orientation will sound the best. However one suggestion would be to make sure you have enough AC outlets on which ever wall or walls you think might be necessary to power your components for whatever orientation you decide delivers the best sonic results. The last thing you want would be to come to a listening decision and then say "damn, I should have put in an extra quad outlet or two here or there". The cost is nominal to run a few extra lines for optimum flexibiity down the road. Good luck!
Thanks Marty, I did get 4 'Perfect Plugs' outlets for my dedicated hardware circuit. 2 each for either far or near field. There will be seperate outlets with the lighting. I was truly looking forward to a decent size & shape room, but the bulkhead was unavoidable and in a far field listening environment, figure it will throw off a symetrical sounstage.
 

Powerman

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I can't see that effecting symetry. Long walls create. More problems than the bulkhead... What is it for? Pipe chase, ventilation? Heck, 8 ft ceilings cause more problems than asymmetry.

I had a similar problem. My listening room was not ideal, but it was the most ideal if I wanted to actually listen to my system... But 8ft ceilings. With such a weird room, I did listen more near field thinking that would be ideal. But I found it was too closed in stage wise. My triangle is now 6.5 feet. I got crazy and treat every bit of the room I could. Half the ceiling has a foot. Practical limitations to about half of it. But I am super happy with it. Now to think of it... Since then some things have changed. Next time I'll have to spend some time near field again to see how that is now.
 
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Gryphon8

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Oct 9, 2017
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I can't see that effecting symetry. Long walls create. More problems than the bulkhead... What is it for? Pipe chase, ventilation? Heck, 8 ft ceilings cause more problems than asymmetry.

I had a similar problem. My listening room was not ideal, but it was the most ideal if I wanted to actually listen to my system... But 8ft ceilings. With such a weird room, I did listen more near field thinking that would be ideal. But I found it was too closed in stage wise. My triangle is now 6.5 feet. I got crazy and treat every bit of the room I could. Half the ceiling has a foot. Practical limitations to about half of it. But I am super happy with it. Now to think of it... Since then some things have changed. Next time I'll have to spend some time near field again to see how that is now.
Hello Powerman and thanks for your response. The bulkhead covers a 4" sewage drain & was the minimum size/space to cover it. I'll have to experiment with both set ups. I had quite a favorable near field setup in the old house, but the room was certainly too small which makes me look forward to dealing with the new room.
 

MarkusBarkus

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...a couple of comments to add to the mix @Powerman

I also have a "box" which houses utilities and a support column for an I-beam structural element. The "box" is in the front of my system and when I had subs, it was boomy. I cut a small opening near the top and added cellulose fill. I also wrapped the box with acoustic panels I made, but that look is not for everyone, I understand.

Just trying to highlight there are options if the pipe chase is problematic.

I also have a low ceiling, just under eight feet, but that's what I have. That ceiling has sprayed cellulose up in the joists, and I added some rolled fiberglass in a few areas. I also have experimented with a large T-shaped "cloud" and currently with two skyline diffusors. Both solutions work, but the diffusors are a bit less visually "heavy." Good Luck!
 

Swisstrips

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Jan 15, 2016
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I wouldn't think that bulkhead will be of much detriment (you should line it with pink fluffy or OC 703 before it gets sealed up). You have an enclosed rectangle, so it should be very predictable generally speaking. The only way you'll find out what you like, will be experimenting - a lot when it's all done.

The room is everything (acoustically) and you may like one orientation the best, but either way it will be a compromise - you have to find the least compromised config to your liking. The plus side to having a dedicated space, is you have full control of room treatments which would be of top priority IMHO (do not forget about ceiling).

Me, I would put spkrs on short wall, out into the room 6-8ft and LP will prob be somewhere 9-12ft from tweeter - so you'll have either a far or near field option
 

Powerman

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Well... To add on... Why not. It's doubtful you are going to buy into my suggestion. First, there is nothing saying you have to have the box covering your pipe. You could just insulate it for asthetics and leave it... The better idea is to actually incorporate it into a bass trap... If it's 2x1...make it 2x2...still frame it with wood for structure, but then fill it will fluffy fiberglass insulation, and cover with suitably acoustically transperant fabric of your choice... But wait, there's more... Then yes, do the exact same on other side! 40 ft of 2x2 bass trap that doesn't take up floor space. I covered half my ceiling with a foot. You could just frame in your ceiling and not have to deal with panels. Yes, not everyone is comfortable with that, but pink fluffy is not only the most cost effective, it is the most acoustically effective. Just a thought...
 
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Powerman

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Hello Powerman and thanks for your response. The bulkhead covers a 4" sewage drain & was the minimum size/space to cover it. I'll have to experiment with both set ups. I had quite a favorable near field setup in the old house, but the room was certainly too small which makes me look forward to dealing with the new room.
Man, I have to thank you. I tried near field again... Wow! When I got the Lampi, I was all about stage. And spreading out gave more space, bigger canvas so to speak. I thought near field was to closed in. Some speaker maker was ranting about too much tow in killed stage so I also found less was better. But for near field I was on axis, or focus a little behind me.

Well tonight I give it a try, plus did not want to piss off the ladies... So ya, closed in. Disconnected actually. Solid center, but music from speakers. Less is better... Way better... OK Straight... Damn. I settled on very slight tow in on a 4ft triangle about 3 ft from front wall... Sounds amazing and I don't have to blast it.

It just so happens my sub is side wall slightly in front of me. That is best sound and measurements. All bass comes form bookshelf. It just so happens that all speakers are all same distance from me... Even when I go near field, same distance. So that still sounds awesome. And don't have to adjust anything.
 
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Gryphon8

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Well... To add on... Why not. It's doubtful you are going to buy into my suggestion. First, there is nothing saying you have to have the box covering your pipe. You could just insulate it for asthetics and leave it... The better idea is to actually incorporate it into a bass trap... If it's 2x1...make it 2x2...still frame it with wood for structure, but then fill it will fluffy fiberglass insulation, and cover with suitably acoustically transperant fabric of your choice... But wait, there's more... Then yes, do the exact same on other side! 40 ft of 2x2 bass trap that doesn't take up floor space. I covered half my ceiling with a foot. You could just frame in your ceiling and not have to deal with panels. Yes, not everyone is comfortable with that, but pink fluffy is not only the most cost effective, it is the most acoustically effective. Just a thought...
Thanks again Powerman, the bulkhead is indeed filled with pink fluffy, as is the ceiling. The symetrical idea is great, but then I wonder about taking extra space from the bass to bloom?
 

Powerman

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Thanks again Powerman, the bulkhead is indeed filled with pink fluffy, as is the ceiling. The symetrical idea is great, but then I wonder about taking extra space from the bass to bloom?
You have a small room. It is not hard to fill with bass. Getting rid of the reflection and standing waves are much harder. Having that much bass trap is not even close to excessive. To actually do it proper, 4ft covering the back wall is a good start. There is no free lunch, and there is no way you would agree to what it would take to actually over do it... your significant other would leave way before that. :)
 
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Powerman

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Dealing with bass/sub bass is not easy. It's not just a matter of trapping a little bass, it's what frequency are you trapping. It's relatively easy to manage reflections down to 200 hz. But lower than that needs volume. A foot of fluffy, can get lower... 160, 2ft, 3ft, 4ft...100, 80, 60. So sub bass, with such long frequencies, takes thicker traps... Or you go to resonance type traps like hemholtz tuned for what you are trying to fix. "IF" you wanted to get low... It becomes natural in a long room to do an end... 4ft of fluffy, on front or back wall as an example. That is not that crazy. I know you want windows on front wall, don't know if door is on back... But even if you can do rear wall... You will trap bass that hits it down to 40 at least. But even with that, you still have way more surface area of side walls, ceiling and floor all reflecting omni directional, long wave bass. I'm just trying to show that doing that, or both sides down room in ceiling corner is just not that much compared to the rest of the room... All of it reflects.

So then that sounds crazy, and more than you want to do, so what does that leave... Well you deal with reflections down to 200hz. That's easy. Treat first Reflection points with good absorbers... Like 4" rock wool. Use diffusers where you please... And you are still left with bass problems. That just means you have room modes, standing waves, and nulls and peaks. As long as your listening position is not in a peak or null, then there really is not a huge problem. That is all a matter of distances of speakers and listening position in relation to boundaries and reflections. But again, find the right positioning and LP in neutral position... The room mode 4ft away doesn't matter much. I don't treat my room for it to sound good everywhere, I only care about LP. Home theaters care about everywhere more... You need good bass trapping... Or you go with multiple subs that can change and counter those peaks and nulls. While many believe in dual subs, I tried in my room with measurements and could not find an ideal solution for my weird room. The juice wasn't worth the squeeze for "ME".

So it's not really about too much bass trapping taking up too much of the room. You can only do so much, and it's super difficult to eliminate all bass problems everywhere in the room. Treat what you can, and deal with rest with positioning and measurements. Near field helps by getting speakers further from walls which delays reflections. Being closer to speakers requires less volume which lessens reflected energy. Just another strategy to remove more room from the equation. It's a matter of personal preference of how much room you want to remove, but SBIR and bass peaks and nulls are measureable and repeatable. That's not subjective.

With all that said... Back to your first question... It's not a that you can't make listening on long wall work. You can. It's just that everything has consequences... Both long or short walls. With everything we know about speakers in rooms, long wall causes more problems than they fix. It depends on a lot of factors if it's "better". If it is your only option, it becomes "best". But being on narrow axis, you really need to treat front and rear wall more which means you squeeze in more. Less distance to fix reflections.
 
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Robh3606

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You actually have a great opportunity. When I moved into my home the basement was un-finished and roughly the same size. I got to try all kinds of speaker placement options and ended up with the speakers on the long wall. That gave me the best results WRT room modes. My tunnel divides long side of the room in half so it's a bit different.

Just keep moving things around and you will find the sweet spot.

Rob :)
 

brad225

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Hi Gryphon,
I just stumbled across your thread and I don't know where you have gone with it.
The room I have is 24' x 16' x 9'-6". I built bass traps around the ceiling wall intersection and I am very happy with the result.
I listen the long dimension. Speakers are 6' from the front wall and 7'-6" apart.
My seat is aprox 12'-6" from either speaker.

I will look for a couple construction pics.

Let us know what your decide
 

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Argonaut

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For my part I very much loved my time running my previous CLX Anniversary’s , ARC REF10 , ARC REF250’s
 

brad225

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I can't imagine at 70 years I will make any more major changes. My wife hopes that even more.
Then again why do I want to leave a pile of money and have someone else have fun with it.
Don't get me wrong the people that will get it I have no issue with that but why not me. :)
 
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brad225

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brad225

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Sorry for what Google did to the thread. Feel free to delete it if some one would like.
 

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