A $42,000 transport.

[Tango]

As for my reactions when handed an iPad with Roon: this is done routinely by my dealer in Boston. I stare at the screen, trying to figure it out, keep swiping, keep tapping and perhaps music will start playing. Then I have to figure out how to control the volume. I can't always find the music I want to listen to. I've tried it, and I don't like it. One of my buddies uses an iPad for his digital. He hands it to me if he leaves the room. I just put it down until he comes back.

Peter, sorry but I just have to say this.
You make me smile and feel a tiny bit better of myself.

Tang

 

[bonzo75]

As for my reactions when handed an iPad with Roon: this is done routinely by my dealer in Boston. I stare at the screen, trying to figure it out, keep swiping, keep tapping and perhaps music will start playing. Then I have to figure out how to control the volume. I can't always find the music I want to listen to. I've tried it, and I don't like it. One of my buddies uses an iPad for his digital. He hands it to me if he leaves the room. I just put it down until he comes back. Engrossing is not how I would describe the experience. I'm sure others love it, and that is fine with me. It does not seem to be for everybody, though. Perhaps it is a generational thing, who knows?

Says the guy who sets VTA for each LP.

The above is very natural to me, as all of us use e-devices, and at some time or the other, much before becoming audiophiles, have plugged in USBs and hard discs and routers.

Similarly, moving speakers, aligning them with laser, solving issues similar to what I had when my downward firing Logan subs were firing sound down to my neighbors below – came very easy to me. Because all this required moving, lifting, listening…natural talents, like using mobile phone and ipad. Similarly, setting up an Aurender s10 back then was easy. Plug and play.

However, VTA, SRA, VTF – freaks me out. Nothing I have done before in life, prepares me for starting off on analog. Lifting weights, running, playing cricket, using computers and mobile phones, my past two non-analog systems – none of these activities have prepared me for how to set up and align cartridges and move tonearms. Plus, each tonearm/cart is different, while all mobile phones and ipads will work the same way. Tidal and Qobuz will be similar. You get one, you get them all.

Even while auditioning my confidence on analog auditions is much lower. There is no way to know if loading, gain, SUTs, arm cart compliance, etc etc have all been accounted for properly. Consistency across systems is the only guideline.

So vinyl guys like you and Marc should be able to set up a streamer and dac with their left hands while the right is adjusting the VTA. Ok, filters. Aurender did not have filters, HQP does, so maybe a bit more work.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Hi Ked, we don't always see eye to eye (ear to ear?) on things, but I'm 200% with you on that last comment
I think it's just a matter of what you're used to
Blue58 has been threatening to leave me with the IPad as he goes to make the coffee, and see what new music I end up streaming
I suspect me, Peter and other "streaming non intuitives" need to be thrown in at the deep end to see if we drown or find that life raft to cling to that takes us downstream to that clear blue water

 

[bonzo75]

My point is analog is the only thing you need audiophile practice for, the other things are more natural, to do with skills innate from non-audiophile life. Now if you don’t use a smart phone, I can understand

 

[PeterA]

My point is analog is the only thing you need audiophile practice for, the other things are more natural, to do with skills innate from non-audiophile life. Now if you don’t use a smart phone, I can understand

This may be getting off topic, but Ked, do you really think putting a flat piece of glass up to your ear and talking is a natural act? I use an iPhone but prefer to use my corded conventional desk top telephone at my desk. It feels and sounds better. Do you really think that tapping and swiping a tablet is more natural than flipping through a bin of LPs and placing one on a platter and cuing down the tonearm? Some find it easier for sure, but that to is debatable. It is all about the user interface. As Al M. wrote, it is personal.

Your comments about analog set up can be similarly said about making a sailboat go fast; lots of constant adjustments for changing conditions. These are active pursuits. I prefer to read actual books. Others prefer convenience. "No worries" as some like to say.

 

[Al M.]

I prefer to read actual books.

Me too.

And streaming makes you lazy. You never have to get up. I don't want music listening to physically make me sick because of any lack of bodily activity.

 

[bonzo75]

Me too.

And streaming makes you lazy. You never have to get up. I don't want music listening to physically make me sick because of any lack of bodily activity.

It does appear that many audiophiles seem to have only walking over to the CD player as part of their fitness routine

 

[Al M.]

It does appear that many audiophiles seem to have only walking over to the CD player as part of their fitness routine

Well, I'm doing daily real walks too, in order to keep fit and healthy. But at least I'm not doing nothing when listening to music. Sitting in your chair for hours without movement can't be good for your health.

Note to myself: another argument not to ever do computer audio (I'm digging in, you see )

 

[spiritofmusic]

Digging in, Al
Even more beneficial aerobic activity
For me, the cost/benefit analysis of going to streaming is:
Cost of streamer/dac v same budget that could go on (s/h) lps and cds
New music I would not likely find with the old fashioned model of reviews and buying discs v my genres (prog and fusion) not brilliantly represented on Tidal (3/4 of my cd collection not readily streamed)
Collectability/tactile nature of lps and even cds now (Steve Wilson remaster gatefold cds, elaborate artist live/rarity cd/Blu Ray box sets) v the core music all the same being on The Cloud
Reticence and tbh anxiety to interact with a tablet v a new skill set to learn/good for one's soul not to be ruled by unnecessary fear
-----------
For me, the potential decision to move to streaming is the most difficult one I'll ever make in audio, and in life
I could (and would love to, easily) spend the budget for, say SGM/Dac8, on a new tt to refresh my vinyl collection, a new preamp to give me a more neutral sound, a new pair of loudspeakers to possibly give me a whole new sound
But an inner voice is telling me if Im happy with my core sound (which I am, very), and can streamline it further with ancillaries (as I plan to do with power cords updates, audiophile fuses and passive isolation platforms), then maybe, just maybe, I need to really serve the music first and expand my universe of music with a top streamer/dac option, and not take the easy option of MORE of the same (component upgrades other than streamer being JUST MORE, streamer being BEYOND MORE)

 

[SCAudiophile]

Me too.

And streaming makes you lazy. You never have to get up. I don't want music listening to physically make me sick because of any lack of bodily activity.

+1 on preferring to read actual (preferably hardcover!) books!
+1 for streaming making one lazy; we are jammed up with too much technology and I prefer the fun of picking a disc from the shelves, reading the liner notes
in hand, etc....plus, of all my comparisons with my rig between physical disc and even the most meticulous rip or high-end download/stream, it sounds better
the old-fashioned way (to me, IMHO)...

 

[KeithR]

As for my reactions when handed an iPad with Roon: this is done routinely by my dealer in Boston. I stare at the screen, trying to figure it out, keep swiping, keep tapping and perhaps music will start playing. Then I have to figure out how to control the volume. I can't always find the music I want to listen to. I've tried it, and I don't like it. One of my buddies uses an iPad for his digital. He hands it to me if he leaves the room. I just put it down until he comes back. Engrossing is not how I would describe the experience. I'm sure others love it, and that is fine with me. It does not seem to be for everybody, though. Perhaps it is a generational thing, who knows?

Do you use an iPhone or are you still on flip phones too?

I mean really, its 2017. Swiping and tapping is part of everyday life at this point for 99% of the public.

 

[KeithR]

Says the guy who sets VTA for each LP.

However, VTA, SRA, VTF – freaks me out. Nothing I have done before in life, prepares me for starting off on analog. Lifting weights, running, playing cricket, using computers and mobile phones, my past two non-analog systems – none of these activities have prepared me for how to set up and align cartridges and move tonearms. Plus, each tonearm/cart is different, while all mobile phones and ipads will work the same way. Tidal and Qobuz will be similar. You get one, you get them all.

Not to mention getting suspension right in the SME TT itself. Although this thread has now gone off the tracks

 

[bonzo75]

Not to mention getting suspension right in the SME TT itself. Although this thread has now gone off the tracks

Like analog, threads have to be reset at periodic intervals, else go off track

 

[spiritofmusic]

Right, getting back on track
Who's going to do this uber transport/dac comparison v the best files playback?
Plenty of Vivaldi 4 box owners out there who could
As it goes, only JFrech has come down on the side of silver disc playback
Alas, I don't believe it'll ever happen as a proper comparative exercise
We can't easily get top tts compared side to side, or active v passive isolation platforms (I'm doing my bit here), even less chance of this
Just who is going to bite the bullet, compare something like the uber transports from JMF or Wadax on a top dac w something like the SGM/MSB Select II?
M Lavigne certainly could, but he's a files convert, and he has no interest in seeing what a cost no object transport could do w the MSB
My guess remains the same, both presentations will prob be valid, maybe more air, flow and detail on streaming, more verve, substance and tonal density on disc playback, just degrees in it
And we'll be back to the off thread direction of why some like me, Peter and Al still try to resist the tide

 

[Al M.]

Right, getting back on track
Who's going to do this uber transport/dac comparison v the best files playback?
Plenty of Vivaldi 4 box owners out there who could
As it goes, only JFrech has come down on the side of silver disc playback

Micro has also come down on the side of silver disc playback through the Vivaldi transport.

And we'll be back to the off thread direction of why some like me, Peter and Al still try to resist the tide

No need to resist the tide. It doesn't affect me. On the contrary, I am just getting more and more amused when I hear about SQ problems with streaming vs. transport like here:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?23334-Transport-to-Spin-Red-book-CD-s

or when I read on the Vivaldi thread that only the 6th (or is it the 67th? lost track) upgrade of Roon finally gets you to the promised land of streaming...

All the drama etc...

Good that many streamers seem to have a "live and let live" attitude. But then, you also have the file fundamentalists...I guess it's all good fun.

As I said, high end is intensely personal when it comes to choices.

 

[853guy]

Micro has also come down on the side of silver disc playback through the Vivaldi transport.

No need to resist the tide. It doesn't affect me. On the contrary, I am just getting more and more amused when I hear about SQ problems with streaming vs. transport like here:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?23334-Transport-to-Spin-Red-book-CD-s

or when I read on the Vivaldi thread that only the 6th (or is it the 67th? lost track) upgrade of Roon finally gets you to the promised land of streaming...

All the drama etc...

Good that many streamers seem to have a "live and let live" attitude. But then, you also have the file fundamentalists...

And, in a parallel universe that looks a lot like this one...

"No need to resist the tide. It doesn't affect me. On the contrary, I am just getting more and more amused when I hear about matching carts with phono stages and trying out different loadings and VTA settings.

Or when I read on the thread that's it's only after the second or third clean of the record that gets you to the promised land of vinyl...

All the drama etc...

Good that many vinyl guys seem to have a "live and let live" attitude. But then, you also have the analogue fundamentalists..."

Be well, Al.

853guy

 

[Al M.]

And, in a parallel universe that looks a lot like this one...

"No need to resist the tide. It doesn't affect me. On the contrary, I am just getting more and more amused when I hear about matching carts with phono stages and trying out different loadings and VTA settings.

Or when I read on the thread that's it's only after the second or third clean of the record that gets you to the promised land of vinyl...

All the drama etc...

Good that many vinyl guys seem to have a "live and let live" attitude. But then, you also have the analogue fundamentalists..."

Be well, Al.

853guy

Hehe.

 

[MadFloyd]

No doubt about it, the simplest source is a CD spinner. The only variables are power and digital cables.

 

[853guy]

No doubt about it, the simplest source is a CD spinner. The only variables are power and digital cables.

Well, aside from comparing different pressings, trying out exotic sprays and making copies of the original onto Delkin Devices Gold CD-Rs and driving yourself crazy over what speed to burn them at.*

But, yes, on the whole I agree.

Best,

853guy

*And yes, guilty as charged.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Please, please, PLEASE!
No analogue v digital OCD oneupmanship games of Top Trumps