Which DAC just for DSD?

[wisnon]

egidius, where in CH are you...I am in the Nyon area. PM me your contact info please.

 

[egidius]

Currently in Brasil. Otherwise bale..in may

 

[Nevillekapadia]

@Bebop86, I have the latest versions of the CF pre-amp and the new battery version of the CF dac (used only for red book). I needed a transport for my SACD's and so I went for the Playback Designs MPS-5. No regrets. Both match each other very well, and that is what matters. You don't want one dac sounding ying and the other yang! So just be careful about that.

 

[marslo]

Plus 2 ++++++

Me too = +3.
I had Auralic Vega for a while as a dsd Dac, but Lampi is much better imo.
Mine is with duelund capacitors and ecc 40 NOS by Mullard.

 

[MLGrado]

For DSD?

Don't look past the soon to be released iDSD micro from iFi.

Based on the performance of its little brother, the iDSD nano, it should be a real winner.

But for ultimate DSD I have heard nothing but raves about the Lampizator.

Great reviews from the ESS based stuff out there too, but, they DO have a multibit stage in there. So whether you can still call it DSD? Well, some would argue. Not me. I don't have a dog in the fight

I personally don't have a problem with conversion to multi bit, as long as there is no decimation. I THINK that is the case with the ESS chipset stuff. No decimation. But I don't KNOW that. So as such, I stick to my original recommendations. iFi for cheap. Lampizator for more.

Andrew

 

[wisnon]

For DSD?

Don't look past the soon to be released iDSD micro from iFi.

Based on the performance of its little brother, the iDSD nano, it should be a real winner.

But for ultimate DSD I have heard nothing but raves about the Lampizator.

Great reviews from the ESS based stuff out there too, but, they DO have a multibit stage in there. So whether you can still call it DSD? Well, some would argue. Not me. I don't have a dog in the fight

I personally don't have a problem with conversion to multi bit, as long as there is no decimation. I THINK that is the case with the ESS chipset stuff. No decimation. But I don't KNOW that. So as such, I stick to my original recommendations. iFi for cheap. Lampizator for more.

Andrew

Andrew,

Its not just decimation. There is Digital DSP type manipulation going on as well. The output can be very good, but it cant be "pure". Now, some will argue that purity is overrated. I am not among that lot.

Marsio,

I swapped out the Mullards for Tungsram, but have yet to do a compare. I had read that Tungsram is better (mid/highs) and more robust.

 

[marslo]

Thx wisnon, will try to get one or ask Lukasz if he has Tungsram available.

 

[MLGrado]

Hi,

Andrew,

Its not just decimation. There is Digital DSP type manipulation going on as well. The output can be very good, but it cant be "pure". Now, some will argue that purity is overrated. I am not among that lot.

I was surprised to find out the the Merging Horus actually uses the ESS chipset for its DA stage. Of course, that isn't an issue in the actual conversion stage. It must sound pretty good on native DSD stuff, since I am pretty sure the Horus has found its way into a lot of our favorite native DSD mastering houses.

It must sound pretty decent. Lot of good reviews out there on ESS chipset stuff.

But like you said, it is not pure DSD. And we really don't know what kind of DSP is going on in there. The datasheets, including the 'confidential' one, say pretty much nothing.

So, yes, if you want DSD, go for something we know is native. iFi for traditional chip based playback, Lampizator for non chip based.

 

[elcorso]

What 'happens' inside an ESS shipset regarding DSD handling is known only by his designer / builder.

I own and exaSound e22 (ESS based) and it's an excellent DSD player, from 64 to 256, at half the price of the Horus. Not to mention PCM where it's also a champ.

You can get very different SQ from the same ESS shipset, but different DAC manufacturer implementation, mainly regarding clocks, USB interface, power regulation and power supply.

Also own a Playback Design DAC that is to me a reference for DSD.

I never listened to the Lampizator DAC (but I have to), neither the Horus.

I don't exactly know what "native DSD" means, but I believe Andreas Koch (Playback Designs) know what is, then I can compare!...

Roch

 

[Bruce B]

What 'happens' inside an ESS shipset regarding DSD handling is known only by his designer / builder.

I own and exaSound e22 (ESS based) and it's an excellent DSD player, from 64 to 256, at half the price of the Horus. Not to mention PCM where it's also a champ.

You can get very different SQ from the same ESS shipset, but different DAC manufacturer implementation, mainly regarding clocks, USB interface, power regulation and power supply.

Also own a Playback Design DAC that is to me a reference for DSD.

I never listened to the Lampizator DAC (but I have to), neither the Horus.

I don't exactly know what "native DSD" means, but I believe Andreas Koch (Playback Designs) know what is, then I can compare!...

Roch

I guess I'm one the lucky ones to have all 3, the PD MPS-5, Lampizator DSD and the Merging Horus! Life is good...

Now don't everyone ask at once which is better!!

 

[MLGrado]

Hi,

What 'happens' inside an ESS shipset regarding DSD handling is known only by his designer / builder.

I own and exaSound e22 (ESS based) and it's an excellent DSD player, from 64 to 256, at half the price of the Horus. Not to mention PCM where it's also a champ.

You can get very different SQ from the same ESS shipset, but different DAC manufacturer implementation, mainly regarding clocks, USB interface, power regulation and power supply.

Also own a Playback Design DAC that is to me a reference for DSD.

I never listened to the Lampizator DAC (but I have to), neither the Horus.

I don't exactly know what "native DSD" means, but I believe Andreas Koch (Playback Designs) know what is, then I can compare!...

Roch

Isn't that what really matters? How it sounds I believe you when you say the Exasound is a great DSD player. I am sure it is.

The ESS is a great chipset. It does a lot of things very, very well, and is easy for designers to implement. The differences between ESS dacs are the very things you mention.. the interface, clock, power supply, etc. But ESS took great care with the 'guts' of the design. You have to really screw things up to make an ESS DAC sound bad! Not to say that it doesn't happen!

And as you alluded to, the guys at ESS at the only ones who 'really' know what is going on in there. Speaking with one top designer who has signed the ESS NDA, etc, etc, he would tell you that all he knows about the 'real' inner workings of the ESS chipset is what he can glean on the test bench, and various related assumptions, etc.

The fact that Merging chose it for the DA section of the Horus speaks a lot to me about how good of a performer it is, though.

But, true 1 bit signal paths in D-A conversion are most desirable. For instance, studios like Channel Classics go to great pains to minimize conversion to multi-bit in the recording and mastering process. Personally I want a DAC designed with the same level of care handling the 1-bit signal.

Like the Playback Designs. Or the Lampizator. Or for less money, the iFi lineup.

Cheers

Andrew

 

[MadFloyd]

To what extent is the Lampi sound 'colored' by the tubes it uses?

 

[elcorso]

To what extent is the Lampi sound 'colored' by the tubes it uses?

I don't own a Lampi, but I guess this depends on the 'color' of the tube of your choice.

I don't want to ask Bruce B which is 'better" because:

- It depends on personal taste.

- I have already spent small fortune in DACs. I have others in my 'music closet' including another with an ESS shipset that I don't like, but I like to talk only about units I like.

Roch

 

[wisnon]

I guess I'm one the lucky ones to have all 3, the PD MPS-5, Lampizator DSD and the Merging Horus! Life is good...

Now don't everyone ask at once which is better!!

LoL

 

[elcorso]

I guess I'm one the lucky ones to have all 3, the PD MPS-5, Lampizator DSD and the Merging Horus! Life is good...

Now don't everyone ask at once which is better!!

Only one question Bruce. Do you have any other tubed gear in your playback musical chain?

Thanks,

Roch

 

[Bruce B]

Only one question Bruce. Do you have any other tubed gear in your playback musical chain?

Thanks,

Roch

I have a Doshi Phono pre and Tape pre, but nothing in the digital chain.

Lampizator -> Pass XP-30 -> Pass XA-100.5 -> Wilson Alexia

 

[MtnHam]

Guys- Have decided to try DSD recordings- I currently have the Concert Fidelity preamp and DAC which I love- So I just want a DAC to play DSD recordings on my sound science diamond music server- Without spending a fortune which DAC do you recommend for DSD recordings only= thanks so much for your advice- gary

It seems this question is flawed. I do not understand why one would want a DAC that was only for DSD. I want a DAC that does DSD well, but it must also do do Redbook and everything else well too! I, for one, would not want to complicate my system in such a manner. Anyone else agree?

 

[elcorso]

It seems this question is flawed. I do not understand why one would want a DAC that was only for DSD. I want a DAC that does DSD well, but it must also do do Redbook and everything else well too! I, for one, would not want to complicate my system in such a manner. Anyone else agree?

Maybe because the "sound science diamond music server" doesn't play DSD?

Roch

 

[elcorso]

I have a Doshi Phono pre and Tape pre, but nothing in the digital chain.

Lampizator -> Pass XP-30 -> Pass XA-100.5 -> Wilson Alexia

Did you try to play the Playback Designs DAC trough your Doshi Tape pre (I don't know if this is possible).

My questions goes because there are tubes (thanks to the Lampi) in your digital chain.

Mine is:

Playback Designs SS DAC-> Conrad Johnson ET-5 (tubed) pre -> Conrad Johnson ARTsa (tubed) amp -> ML CLX speakers

Roch

 

[wisnon]

Did you try to play the Playback Designs DAC trough your Doshi Tape pre (I don't know if this is possible).

My questions goes because there are tubes (thanks to the Lampi) in your digital chain.

Mine is:

Playback Designs SS DAC-> Conrad Johnson ET-5 (tubed) pre -> Conrad Johnson ARTsa (tubed) amp -> ML CLX speakers

Roch

Roch, the Lampizator does not use tubes for "tubiness". Read the interview he gave to www.monoandstereo.com to see his design rationale.

Indeed, his whole approach to the DSD Dac is about the elegance of a LPF design.

"Why tubes in the audio path?

I have no particular attachment to tubes. If the parrot guano gave better results in signal amplification, or transistors - I would use them. Tubes sound good not because they are made of glass, or because they have vacuum inside, but because I can get away with simple amplifier stage without local or global feedback and without high part count. The tube circuit can be as simple as humanly possible - in my case the stage has just one resistor, one triode and one capacitor. Thats why I love tubes. Listening confirms that the signal is pure, uncorrupted, and the musical content comes through, shining in full musical glory.

What would you say, that Lampizator- Lukasz Fikus is doing different and specific to other DAC’s?


Mainly I am very open to listening test and comparisons. I don’t follow so called datasheet and white paper specs - I use the chips the way I want and I make the chips sound the way I want, even if the approach is far from textbook or dogmatic respect for manufacturer’s suggestions. I realized that chips for DAC are not digital devices (like in computers) but they are analog devices, responding really strongly to strange manipulations like power supply filtering, capacitor quality, connection topology, clock frequencies, materials used for wiring and soldering, vibrations, magnetic fields, grounding schemes and so on. Making a chip sound in a specific way is like building violins. Yamaha can’t duplicate what Stradivari did, it is a secret of the trade. It is like cooking, or gardening, or animal training. It is not about zeroes and ones.

Anything special about topology?


There is nothing special really. Anyone can make a circuit equally good just after 2-3 years of every day testing and trying. What is special is my absolutely fanatical approach to testing by ears in thousands of hours of nightime listening. I use circuits insanely simple, if you remove one more part - everything will collapse. So I am testing the absolute limits of simplicity that I can get away with as an engineer. I remove and remove and remove until I can’t remove anything else and then I make the circuit sound best under these circumstances. In sound quality less is more, because the signal gets less chances to be distorted and losing the natural beauty of the music.


What does state of the art digital audio and ultra high-end means for you?


As a “reverse engineer” person I want to see the concept behind it, the simple genius design that can be read like an open book, and if it takes a lot of money to realize - it is a no compromise high end to me. Any educated idiot can make a very sophisticated , over-engineered product and pack it with premium parts and market as high end. Only real genius can make it simple, beautiful and sounding right. Very very few engineers can do this. Kondo was the first one, the Pope of high end, and frankly nothing much after Kondo made any progress or breakthrough. To make best amps, best DAC, best cables and best cartridge in one lifetime is a truly buddhist achievement. And he was not an electronic engineer, not even an electrician, just an open, renaissance man with huge passion.

What are your views on balanced topology? Is it a must for best sound in audiophile branded products?


Balanced operation has many many crazy misunderstandings and myths. It is merely a simple way of achieving something, at the cost of something else. It has no correlation with sound quality. It can be compared to 4x4 car design, which achieves good tracking at the cost of price, noise, fuel efficiency, reliability and turning radius. It is a tradeoff like anything else. Having said that, most good gear out there is SE and that’s my personal preference. It makes sense for some products like phono stages and DACs but only in the context of really fully balanced rest of the system and at the cost of almost doubled manufacturing cost.

What sets Lampizator audio design above other manufacturers?


It is the end result - the sound at the price. I design my product to be as timeless as possible - a huge engineering and component value that will stand the test of time not in 2 years like modern electronics but in 10, 20 and 30 years from now.

Do you use pure class A in your signal chain and outputs?


Yes, always.

What is your approach to power supply and how important it is in your opinion?


Power supply is everything. Remove the power supply importance and my DAC is like any other 200 dollar DAC from China. Power supply to the tube anodes, tube heaters, and 9 other digital supply points, sets the LampizatOr DAC aside form the crowd and makes it sound as heavenly as it does. "