Audiophiles just love trying tweaks, whether it's cable elevators, Isolation devices, cable, power cords, power outlets, etc, etc. I think that someone that had some knowledge about audio and is a good marketer could make a quick buck in audio. Of course you would have to be deceitful and a crook. I worked for a guy in the car business and he sold millions of dollars worth of cars. The only problem is a lot of those cars were never delivered. At the end he walked away with just a bankruptcy but still had a 2 million dollar house and some luxury cars.
Could a scam artist make a quick buck in audio
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Of course. It's going on all day long on the 'gone and has been for years. "There's a sucker born every minute" and this is what they feed off of. Think Machina Dynamica.
Tom
Tom
Ground pounding naysaying engineering types are handed their ass, in spades. the kind that says if it can't be measured, that it does not exist. That if the 'law' says it can't exist, that it does not. That they fail to understand that there are no laws, only theory. That they push engineering principles into being some sort of inviolate religious context.
That they deny, vehemently so... that hearing can beat or trump measurement principles and associated theory. Over and over. Relentlessly. viciously.
When will they learn.
But they don't, you see. They run from the discussion of their logic faults and come back to attack thinking people again and again. The worst kind of fault. The kind that keeps repeating itself, from lack of mental correction, the lack of recognition in fault, and then change... of the self. That such circular expression is the somewhere around the level of a pouting child.
No wonder that those of us who trust our hearing are so drained and exasperated. We are wrestling with stubborn children, who refuse to even begin to understand the fault in their logic function and basic mental position.
Here's the ass-handing for today. And I promise, it's a good. solid. beating.
Might keep them quiet for a few days. One can only hope:
Human hearing beats the Fourier uncertainty principle
For the first time, physicists have found that humans can discriminate a sound's frequency (related to a note's pitch) and timing (whether a note comes before or after another note) more than 10 times better than the limit imposed by the Fourier uncertainty principle. Not surprisingly, some of the subjects with the best listening precision were musicians, but even non-musicians could exceed the uncertainty limit.
The results rule out the majority of auditory processing brain algorithms that have been proposed, since only a few models can match this impressive human performance.
The researchers, Jacob Oppenheim and Marcelo Magnasco at Rockefeller University in New York, have published their study on the first direct test of the Fourier uncertainty principle in human hearing in a recent issue of Physical Review Letters. The Fourier uncertainty principle states that a time-frequency tradeoff exists for sound signals, so that the shorter the duration of a sound, the larger the spread of different types of frequencies is required to represent the sound. Conversely, sounds with tight clusters of frequencies must have longer durations. The uncertainty principle limits the precision of the simultaneous measurement of the duration and frequency of a sound. To investigate human hearing in this context, the researchers turned to psychophysics, an area of study that uses various techniques to reveal how physical stimuli affect human sensation. Using physics, these techniques can establish tight bounds on the performance of the senses.
http://phys.org/news/2013-02-human-fourier-uncertainty-principle.html
That they deny, vehemently so... that hearing can beat or trump measurement principles and associated theory. Over and over. Relentlessly. viciously.
When will they learn.
But they don't, you see. They run from the discussion of their logic faults and come back to attack thinking people again and again. The worst kind of fault. The kind that keeps repeating itself, from lack of mental correction, the lack of recognition in fault, and then change... of the self. That such circular expression is the somewhere around the level of a pouting child.
No wonder that those of us who trust our hearing are so drained and exasperated. We are wrestling with stubborn children, who refuse to even begin to understand the fault in their logic function and basic mental position.
Here's the ass-handing for today. And I promise, it's a good. solid. beating.
Might keep them quiet for a few days. One can only hope:
Human hearing beats the Fourier uncertainty principle
For the first time, physicists have found that humans can discriminate a sound's frequency (related to a note's pitch) and timing (whether a note comes before or after another note) more than 10 times better than the limit imposed by the Fourier uncertainty principle. Not surprisingly, some of the subjects with the best listening precision were musicians, but even non-musicians could exceed the uncertainty limit.
The results rule out the majority of auditory processing brain algorithms that have been proposed, since only a few models can match this impressive human performance.
The researchers, Jacob Oppenheim and Marcelo Magnasco at Rockefeller University in New York, have published their study on the first direct test of the Fourier uncertainty principle in human hearing in a recent issue of Physical Review Letters. The Fourier uncertainty principle states that a time-frequency tradeoff exists for sound signals, so that the shorter the duration of a sound, the larger the spread of different types of frequencies is required to represent the sound. Conversely, sounds with tight clusters of frequencies must have longer durations. The uncertainty principle limits the precision of the simultaneous measurement of the duration and frequency of a sound. To investigate human hearing in this context, the researchers turned to psychophysics, an area of study that uses various techniques to reveal how physical stimuli affect human sensation. Using physics, these techniques can establish tight bounds on the performance of the senses.
http://phys.org/news/2013-02-human-fourier-uncertainty-principle.html
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Of course these results were based on measurements, not proposed like a "trust me" or "I think it". The research applied known science. The point remains that if it exists it is measurable.
And let's wait for what their peers have to say about this. This is one study after all. They could well be entirely right. Then it is time to put the Fourier Uncertainty Principle in the bin of Theories that have failed. No harm done.. When they measured correctly it was proved to be wrong ...
Machina Dynamica is a joke site set up by people who wanted to test the limits of gullibility, gathering great stories for their yearly Christmas party in the process. They found no limits to gullibility.
And yes, there are a lot of scam artists in high-end audio, to the detriment of the many gifted and dedicated developers who find it hard to reach for the Idiot's Guide to Superlatives when describing their own valuable efforts.
Are you sure about that? Geoff has been pining these tweaks for years and years, defending and explaining them vehemently for just as long.
Now Mothra Audio, that was a great joke!
Hi
Pause for a few seconds...
There! Aren't we, audiophiles conditioned to believe that everything makes a difference more so (perhaps) than most hobbies. Definitely more so than videophiles for example? This belief, some would call it gullibility become a magnet for scam artists of which there are various shades. What worse is that no matter how outlandish the claims it has its defenders .. From Intelligent chips to pebbles to stones to telephone calls to make your system better. Most of us on this WBF board have fallen for so many worthless tweaks that our memory seems to be mercifully unable to unearth these.
Pause for a few seconds...
There! Aren't we, audiophiles conditioned to believe that everything makes a difference more so (perhaps) than most hobbies. Definitely more so than videophiles for example? This belief, some would call it gullibility become a magnet for scam artists of which there are various shades. What worse is that no matter how outlandish the claims it has its defenders .. From Intelligent chips to pebbles to stones to telephone calls to make your system better. Most of us on this WBF board have fallen for so many worthless tweaks that our memory seems to be mercifully unable to unearth these.
Then there was the case where the young wife tells her husband that she is pregnant. He is shocked and angry, since they haven't had intercourse. "Who is the father?" She replies "No one."
That study doesn't prove what some audiophooles seem to think it means. It has nothing to do with "ears can hear what science can't measure," which of course is incorrect. All that article addresses is one type of measurement, and this is not new information anyway. Yes, FFT windowing limits the frequency resolution of the display. Anyone who has seen the skirts on an FFT graph of a single frequency sine wave understands this. As for peers, the discussion here is just starting:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=99371
Further - and I've made this point many times before - a null test will show all differences between two signals, including differences you might not even be looking for. For example, if someone believes that two hard drives sound different when playing the same Wave file, you can set up a null in DAW software to prove or disprove that hypothesis in about five minutes. If the files null to total silence, then they are identical - period, end of story.
--Ethan
I had a cunning thought the other day for a tweak and made me laugh, so cunning and sharp the thought of it cut me!
Anyway who wants some quantum paint (sure could work something out with Dulux or one of the innovating paint manufacturers for development criteria), and if that is not possible then nano paint!!!!
Then for my next product, nano wallpaper to improve sound.
After this, I guess will have to be some kind of membrane that can be put over surfaces.
Ah the future is bright I say.
Amazed none of the tweaker manufacturers have gone down this route of development yet, in theory some advanced paints/membranes "could" make some kind of very very subtle changes.
Think I am mad, do a search on such things
http://quantumpaints.com/ only as a very crude example.
Cheers
Orb
Anyway who wants some quantum paint (sure could work something out with Dulux or one of the innovating paint manufacturers for development criteria), and if that is not possible then nano paint!!!!
Then for my next product, nano wallpaper to improve sound.
After this, I guess will have to be some kind of membrane that can be put over surfaces.
Ah the future is bright I say.
Amazed none of the tweaker manufacturers have gone down this route of development yet, in theory some advanced paints/membranes "could" make some kind of very very subtle changes.
Think I am mad, do a search on such things
http://quantumpaints.com/ only as a very crude example.
Cheers
Orb
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Ever null your Mackie vs your JBL Ethan?
Both of these posts are combative while contributing zero to the conversation. Is this really all you have? I not only showed that the FFT article doesn't prove what some people think it proves, I also explained why it doesn't. As they say: Epic Fail.
--Ethan
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