Echole - a cable chronicle

[felipe91]

Hello,

yes I'm sure Echole kabels are very good, because their price are very high.
In 2019 , 12000 dollars for an omnia power chord, 16000 dollars for the LE.

Is the omnia PC (not "omnia 2") very good on amps? sometime it's possible to find some used omnia PC at 4500/5000 dollars . what is the difference between omnia 1 and omnia 2?

Thank you.

 

[AudioHR]

Hello,

yes I'm sure Echole kabels are very good, because their price are very high.
In 2019 , 12000 dollars for an omnia power chord, 16000 dollars for the LE.

Is the omnia PC (not "omnia 2") very good on amps? sometime it's possible to find some used omnia PC at 4500/5000 dollars . what is the difference between omnia 1 and omnia 2?

Thank you.

Felipe hopefully a high price is not the main criteria for deciding what is good. You probably didn't mean it that way.

 

[felipe91]

Hello,

Of course , the price is not the main criteria.

But , generally, there is a "logic " of price among the well known manufacturers:
- highest the price is , highest the quality of the sound is ( different models from the same manufacturer)
- a manufacturer is not going to propose a cable at a very expensive price if other manufacturers manufacture the same results at a more affordable price.

Concerning Echole, prices are incredibly high, but I think there is a logic.
nota: At 14000/15000 dollars, in 2019, it was possible to buy a new and very good amp (the price of a brand new omnia 1 PC!!)


So, my question was:
Is the omnia PC (not "omnia 2") very good on amps?
sometime it's possible to find some used omnia PC at 4500/5000 dollars (still expensive but more affordable than the new omnia 1/12000 dollars) . what is the difference between omnia 1 and omnia 2?

Felipe

 

[Re-tread]

Greetings @felipe91, and welcome to this Echole thread..!

Just to gently echo what @AudioHR has reminded us, the price of an item is not always indicative of performance "outcome", especially when installed in your audio system at home according to your own goals, synergies, and personal preferences. However, in my personal experience, Echole cables has enabled my modest system to ascertain new heights, and have been very musically rewarding. I am a happy and satisfied customer of their offerings.

I believe a large part of the reason for their "above average" cost is because they actually design and manufacture their unique metallurgy for their cable conductors (using very expensive materials in a refined, production technology from exotic metals of Ag/Au/Pd), where as most cable companies just purchase market available OCC Cu, or Ag, from a supplier to meet their cost objectives or needs. Thus, Echole cables are (in a sense) exotic, custom cables made by artisans who care only about musical conveyance.

Regarding your question about using an Echole "Omnia 1" Power Cable, I would suspect it is a very good performing power cable, but I have never used this exact model. [All of the Echole power cables I have purchased thus far have been the "Limited Edition - 2" models.] I believe at one time, the Omnia-1 was their top offering (prior to the introduction of their Limited Edition and the Infinity models), and should provide excellent service to an Amplifier (I believe your proposed use-case).

If helpful, here is their website: http://echole.com/_power.html

The Echole website indicates/implies that the Omina 2 has a newer "OMNIA 2 grade Silver/Gold/?? Palladium custom structured alloy, (and) several runs of 8N Purity" (from the OMNIA-1) and also now terminates with "Rhodium plated, Furutech terminations US / SCHUKO".

I believe all of their current "Model 2" series (offered throughout, as PC's, SpC's, and IC's) now come with the Furutech NCF Rhodium connectors. Some love these connectors, and, some don't. In my system, these connectors have performed very nicely (and without any negatives sonic characteristics that some Rhodium users have cited). Some caution about too much Rhodium can accumulate in your system. In my opinion, I believe that the Rhodium dilemma may stem from the native attributes of your system (for example, is your system "bright" to begin with), but that is just my (unsubstantiated) conjecture.

Buying into their product line with pre-owned cables may be a way to go (begin), to see if you like it (them) in your system at home. Currently, you might find that their are some (many?) Series-1 cables on the used market from owners who are upgrading to Series-2, so your timing for a Omnia-1 may be good.

I can also suggest reaching out to your local Echole representative for their assistance in supporting your questions and endeavors. I have received excellent support from Echole along my journey, and hope you do too.

I hope this input/feedback is helpful.

Cheers,
Re-tread

 

[AudioHR]

Hello,

Of course , the price is not the main criteria.

But , generally, there is a "logic " of price among the well known manufacturers:
- highest the price is , highest the quality of the sound is ( different models from the same manufacturer)
- a manufacturer is not going to propose a cable at a very expensive price if other manufacturers manufacture the same results at a more affordable price.

Concerning Echole, prices are incredibly high, but I think there is a logic.
nota: At 14000/15000 dollars, in 2019, it was possible to buy a new and very good amp (the price of a brand new omnia 1 PC!!)


So, my question was:
Is the omnia PC (not "omnia 2") very good on amps?
sometime it's possible to find some used omnia PC at 4500/5000 dollars (still expensive but more affordable than the new omnia 1/12000 dollars) . what is the difference between omnia 1 and omnia 2?

Felipe

Thank you for the clarification. I agree completely and now see what you were getting at.

 

[AudioHR]

Greetings @felipe91, and welcome to this Echole thread..!

Just to gently echo what @AudioHR has reminded us, the price of an item is not always indicative of performance "outcome", especially when installed in your audio system at home according to your own goals, synergies, and personal preferences. However, in my personal experience, Echole cables has enabled my modest system to ascertain new heights, and have been very musically rewarding. I am a happy and satisfied customer of their offerings.

I believe a large part of the reason for their "above average" cost is because they actually design and manufacture their unique metallurgy for their cable conductors (using very expensive materials in a refined, production technology from exotic metals of Ag/Au/Pd), where as most cable companies just purchase market available OCC Cu, or Ag, from a supplier to their cost objectives or needs. Thus, Echole cables are (in a sense) exotic, custom cables made by artisans who care only about musical conveyance.

Regarding your question about using an Echole "Omnia 1" Power Cable, I would suspect it is a very good performing power cable, but I have never used this exact model. [All of the Echole power cables I have purchased thus far have been the "Limited Edition - 2" models.] I believe at one time, the Omnia-1 was their top offering (prior to the introduction of their Limited Edition and the Infinity models), and should provide excellent service to an Amplifier (I believe your proposed use-case).

If helpful, here is their website: http://echole.com/_power.html

The Echole website indicates/implies that the Omina 2 has a newer "OMNIA 2 grade Silver/Gold/?? Palladium custom structured alloy, (and) several runs of 8N Purity" (from the OMNIA-1) and also now terminates with "Rhodium plated, Furutech terminations US / SCHUKO".

I believe all of their current "Model 2" series (offered throughout, as PC's, SpC's, and IC's) now come with the Furutech NCF Rhodium connectors. Some love these connectors, and, some don't. In my system, these connectors have performed very nicely (and without any negatives sonic characteristics that some Rhodium users have cited). Some caution about too much Rhodium can accumulate in your system. In my opinion, I believe that the Rhodium dilemma may stem from the native attributes of your system (for example, is your system "bright" to begin with), but that is just my (unsubstantiated) conjecture.

Buying into their product line with pre-owned cables may be a way to go (begin), to see if you like it (them) in your system at home. Currently, you might find that their are some (many?) Series-1 cables on the used market from owners who are upgrading to Series-2, so your timing for a Omnia-1 may be good.

I can also suggest reaching out to your local Echole representative for their assistance in supporting your questions and endeavors. I have received excellent support from Echole along my journey, and hope you do too.

I hope this input/feedback is helpful.

Cheers,
Re-tread

Love the chronicle of your journey!

I am always taken by the quality of custom artisan built components. Somehow the passion of the builder shines through.

 

[felipe91]

Yes Re-tread,

i will look for an omnia 1.
i've also Gobel lacorde statement PCs (very good in my opinion), but probably the omnia 1 would be better on the amp. i will test.

just a question:
i read that you have an 8’ demo pair of “Limited Edition” SpC, connected to Jean Marie Reynaud Orfeo Jubile speakers. What is the price (new) of “Limited Edition” SpC?

Felipe

 

[Re-tread]

Greetings @felipe91

i will look for an omnia 1.
i've also Gobel lacorde statement PCs (very good in my opinion), but probably the omnia 1 would be better on the amp. i will test.

Will it be possible for you to "try" a pre-owned Echole Omnia 1 PC in your home prior to buying? A "taste" from an Echole PC might help inform you your buying decision(s).

Also, I believe you already have a Gobel PC and Gobel XLR interconnects, which I suspect are very good, artisanal products in their own right. If you are satisfied with the Gobel cables so far, I can subtly suggest that you may want to continue to build (accumulate) more cables from Gobel (like their speaker cables, if that is what you need) so you receive the sonic benefits of having a partial Gobel "cable loom", enabling a fuller Gobel cable experience to be maximized/delivered and brought-forth.

…. Just a couple of friendly suggestions, if helpful....

just a question:
i read that you have an 8’ demo pair of “Limited Edition” SpC, connected to Jean Marie Reynaud Orfeo Jubile speakers. What is the price (new) of “Limited Edition” SpC?

Yes, that is correct; however unfortunately, I do not know the current price of new "Limited Edition" Speaker Cables. I am sure you can contact an Echole dealer or company representative directly for advice, or, current pricing information. That said, I suspect the price for new "LE Speaker Cables" is in-line with the pricing of other top-tier, artisanal cable manufactures. Actually, there is currently a "pre-owned" pair of LE Speaker Cables for sale on Audiogon.com now (seen here) if you are interested in acquiring a pre-owned set.

Wishing you the best with your endeavors…

Re-tread

 

[felipe91]

Hello Re-tread,

Yes Gobel are very good cables. and Gobel XLR also.
The gobel lacorde loudspeaker cable (3m) costs $ 28,000, very very expensive...
i will try the omnia 1 PC on my system.

Thank you for the link. it's written on the ad: "Echole LE spkr 2.5m spades $11,950.00 factory term (27,500 ret)"
so, i have my answer: the "Limited Edition” SpC costs $ 27,500 (new).

$ 27,500 is more than twice the price of my Pierre- Etienne-Leon Maestral BE speakers (or your Jean Marie Reynaud Orfeo Jubile speakers) .
And, $11,950.00 (used) is the price of Pierre- Etienne-Leon Maestral BE speakers (or your Jean Marie Reynaud Orfeo Jubile speakers).

so i have to think if it's a good idea to "invest" so much money for my (relatively good) louspeakers.
Maybe, Echole LE spkr (or gobel lacorde spkr) should be connected to loudspeakers costing $ 50,000 (or more)...

Felipe

 

[Re-tread]

Greetings @felipe91,

I will try to add on a few thoughts, if helpful for your consideration:

Yes Gobel are very good cables. and Gobel XLR also.
The gobel lacorde loudspeaker cable (3m) costs $ 28,000, very very expensive...
i will try the omnia 1 PC on my system.

If you are having great success with your Gobel cables so far, perhaps you should continue acquiring additional Gobel cables to your system, so their synergies "accumulate" with a Gobel "loom", as the Gobel the designers intended. If helpful (since I believe you are looking for speaker cables because you are asking me about speaker cables), here is a current ad for a pre-owned pair of Gobel Speaker Cables (seen here) in the EU for your consideration.

$ 27,500 is more than twice the price of my Pierre- Etienne-Leon Maestral BE speakers (or your Jean Marie Reynaud Orfeo Jubile speakers) .
And, $11,950.00 (used) is the price of Pierre- Etienne-Leon Maestral BE speakers (or your Jean Marie Reynaud Orfeo Jubile speakers).

In my case, this assertion is slightly incorrect. My new speakers (imported and purchased in the USA) were a bit more than your cable quotes above.

so i have to think if it's a good idea to "invest" so much money for my (relatively good) louspeakers.

Yes, I understand. Every investment decision is certainly very personal, and each person's decision will depend partially on individual preferences, expectations, desires, experiences, and comfort. If you buy (acquire) high quality cables, either new or pre-owned at a wise price, you should be able to get most of your "investment" out if/when you decide to sell to another impassioned buyer of a high quality component (i.e., cable).

Maybe, Echole LE spkr (or gobel lacorde spkr) should be connected to loudspeakers costing $ 50,000 (or more)...

I completely understand this sentiment, however, this has not proven to be a true axiom for me - as aligned with my personal preferences. Again, audio investments are a very personal decision, and I suspect each decision is relevant to only each person's individual goals, expectations, preferences and aspirations. I have come to firmly believe that top-tier cables (in my case, with Echole) let your audio system "breath a fuller life" into your music playback, (if you allow me a biological metaphor) like the strong arteries of a well-conditioned triathlete allow extremely easy and calm flow of oxygen (the life force) throughout their body.

Yes, we agree that top-tier, artisanal cables are not in-expensive, but Echole cables (themselves) are comparatively priced to other top-tier, artisanal cable manufactures (e.g., apparently equivalent price for the speaker cables from Gobel) in the global marketplace.

Re-tread

 

[felipe91]

Hello Re treated,

Thank you again for your advices!

I'm very satisfied by my 2 Gobel PC (and my XLR interconnect) . Maybe i will buy a third Gobel PC, or an omnia 1 if it's really better.

Your very good loudspeakers cost 11 500 € in Europe, $14,500 imported. Around half the price of the Echole cable LE spk cable (27,000 $).

Personnally, i don't think i would buy a 27,000 $ Echole cable LE spk cable (or the Gobel loudspeaher cable) for my 12,000 $ loudspeaker. Unless I have the opportunity to find a pre-owned Echole LE spkr 2.5m around 7.000 $ (very low probablity to find one at this level of price).

If I had 40,000 $ dollars in my pocket, i would buy, for a example, a 30,000 $ loudspeaker (with the sound i like of course) and try to find an adapted speaker cable at 10,000 $. With my luxman M900u/C900u/D08u devices, I'm quite sure i would have better results than with PEL Maestral/ Echole LE spkr cable (more "physical" listening, closer the reality..etc) .

My opinion is a cable shoudn't be more expensive than the corresponding electronic device/ loudspeaker.
But that's just my opinion.

I will try to test an Omnia 1 PC.

Have a nice week.

Felipe

 

[Kingrex]

Does Echole have their own continuous cast extruder to make their own wire?

 

[Re-tread]

Greetings @Kingrex,

I am not sure. I went to the Echole website, and it mentions (under the "Echole" tab) quite a bit of descriptive details of their unique technology and manufacturing process, but they don't make a specific reference to the phrase "continuous cast". See small excerpt bolded below:

"… their proprietary extrusion of this perfect alloy into a single solid core structure…"

Hope that partially helps...

Re-tread

 

[Kingrex]

I only ask as I went through a process to get high purity wire for behind the wall use. A 10 AWG solid core wire made with a UL stamp like standard Romex type cable. I was quoted about 1 million to make a single wire run. Its not inexpensive to have someone make you wire. The equipment to do it yourself is very expensive. Not saying someone cant do it themselves. Inakustik is the only cable manufacturer that I know that makes their own wire. Maybe other do, I just don't know.
If Echole is making their own raw material, then they have a step above many others. And the price to buy a cable is not that out of line when you look at the upfront cost to make the raw wire. Its very very expensive.
IF they are getting a single crystal, that is amazing. I was told super high purity is still about 17 to 20 crystals pre foot. Normal very high purity is about 70 crystals per foot. Normal wire is about 2000 crystals per foot.
The only way to know is to slice the wire diagonally and horizontally, then polish it, then acid etch it, then look at it under a microscope. I think it was 4000 x magnification.
I'm glad you found a wire you like. I like high purity wire for technical reasons only. I have never heard any that I know of.

 

[Re-tread]

Greetings @felipe91,

I am just getting back to you now. I had a pleasant week... thank you! I hope you did, too. Here are a few follow-up thoughts, if helpful:

Thank you again for your advices!

You are very welcome! That said, it is not my intention to specifically advise you within these topical thread exchanges. On the contrary, I am only providing my written reports from my actual experiences, and offering a few small suggestions when questions arise. I am parsing some of your points here to highlight our different paths.

If helpful: When I do seek advice from others in this hobby, which I do routinely, it is usually in the form of a private message, enabling me the opportunity to build long-lasting rapport with new friends and advisors. Building trust and rapport with others in this hobby (with objective and subjective input from others) is very valuable; and receiving their insights along my journey on various topics have been really helpful. They definitely know who they are; and I am very thankful for them..!

If you have any direct questions for me, kindly send me PM (private message) via WBF.

I'm very satisfied by my 2 Gobel PC (and my XLR interconnect) . Maybe i will buy a third Gobel PC,

Awesome, and I really hope you enjoy that path forward. And, building a loom with the same artisanal manufacture sounds very reasonable, as that has worked very well for me (so far). Perhaps you can start a content-rich thread about your personal journey for readers to enjoy.

or an omnia 1 if it's really better.

I think some of your statements (i.e., assertions) in this thread may not be congruent with my journal. I never said Echole was better than any other stated cable brand, so I am not sure where you got this assertion above - I hope not from me.

I have only been reporting my real life experiences (and complete enjoyment) of living with a growing number of Echole cables. I have carefully A:B:A tested each of my nominal purchase decisions based on long-term listening in my system and room, as you can read in my accounts, which I have voluntarily published in this forum. YMMV. Remember, there is no best.., but there is excellent (excellence).

Your very good loudspeakers cost 11 500 € in Europe, $14,500 imported. Around half the price of the Echole cable LE spk cable (27,000 $).

Your preoccupation with the cost my speakers and my financial decisions is quite unnecessary. Please enjoy your own decisions with your own peace of mind. Do not worry for me. No competition here.

Personnally, i don't think i would buy a 27,000 $ Echole cable LE spk cable (or the Gobel loudspeaher cable) for my 12,000 $ loudspeaker. Unless I have the opportunity to find a pre-owned Echole LE spkr 2.5m around 7.000 $ (very low probablity to find one at this level of price).

Gladly, no one on this forum is forcing you to buy anything. Each of us should do what is comfortable from our own unique perspective. My subtle suggestions to you previously (e.g., consider building a cable loom with 1 high-quality manufacturer, or, pointing you to ads for pre-owned speaker cables that you were interested in) were only quick "reflex" thoughts for the inquiries you originated.

Please pursue the items that you want, not necessarily what has been reported to be excellent for others (or me). That makes complete sense. Perhaps you could start a new thread about your buying preferences and include your experiences building your stereo and cable collection (loom), and you can post your insights, developed philosophies, and results there.

If I had 40,000 $ dollars in my pocket, i would buy, for a example, a 30,000 $ loudspeaker (with the sound i like of course) and try to find an adapted speaker cable at 10,000 $.

I understand your conventional thinking. Most of the times, conventional thinking brings conventional results.

With my luxman M900u/C900u/D08u devices, I'm quite sure i would have better results than with PEL Maestral/ Echole LE spkr cable (more "physical" listening, closer the reality..etc) .

Unfortunately, you won't really know until you try, which takes time, effort, risk, and funding; however from there, you can prove your own hypotheses - to yourself. That is the only person that ultimately matters. Developing and following your own instinct is also very important, and to be open-minded and prepared to learn something unexpected or even counter-intuitive.

My opinion is a cable shoudn't be more expensive than the corresponding electronic device/ loudspeaker.

If I was seeking your “opinion” on your budgetary spending "philosophy" based on your actual trials, observations or real experiences, I would send you a private message providing my context details and my questions. Some consider cables as “accessories” (minority add-ons), and some consider them “components”. I am in the latter camp (aka: school of thought), based on my own actual learning experiences. Yes, top-tier, artisanal cables are expensive. If you go that route, purchase them wisely.

I will try to test an Omnia 1 PC.

Go for it. YMMV, and good luck..!

Re-tread

 

[rogerh113]

Hello,

I have been thinking about getting a set of Echole Obsession Signature interconnects for a while. These would likely be what I assume is the original version without the 'jewelry' on the cables - I really do not know what function those perform, but I personally like the look of the cables without them.

In any case, does anyone have any experience with these, and can provide some perspective on their performance. My objective is focused on musicality rather than resolution This could be relative to the later versions, or other versions of Echole. I realize all is subjective, but sometimes subjective is useful.

thanks -- Roger

 

[Cellcbern]

Hello,

I have been thinking about getting a set of Echole Obsession Signature interconnects for a while. These would likely be what I assume is the original version without the 'jewelery' on the cables - I really do not know what function those perform, but I personally like the look of the cables without them.

In any case, does anyone have any experience with these, and can provide some perspective on their performance. This could be relative to the later versions, or other versions of Echole. I realize all is subjective, but sometimes subjective is useful.

thanks -- Roger

The Obsession Signature line has the reputation of being relatively less liquid and musical than the models above and below, which may explain why there are always more Signature cables available used than any other model. Haven’t tried the interconnects but sold my Signature PC which sounded a little thin and bright compared to the Omnia, which I kept.

 

[rogerh113]

The Obsession Signature line has the reputation of being relatively less liquid and musical than the models above and below, which may explain why there are always more Signature cables available used than any other model. Haven’t tried the interconnects but sold my Signature PC which sounded a little thin and bright compared to the Omnia, which I kept.

Thank you very much for the reply. My primary objective is musicality, so this is very useful to know (will edit my original post to include).

Which models below, in your opinion, exceed the Obsession Signature in musicality?? I have found that often earlier versions of cables tend to be more musical, and as the evolution proceeds things trend towards the analytical.

 

[Cellcbern]

Thank you very much for the reply. My primary objective is musicality, so this is very useful to know (will edit my original post to include).

Which models below, in your opinion, exceed the Obsession Signature in musicality?? I have found that often earlier versions of cables tend to be more musical, and as the evolution proceeds things trend towards the analytical.

One model below or above the Signature will give you better musicality. Not sure what it is about the Signature.

 

[Redwoodaudio]

One model below or above the Signature will give you better musicality. Not sure what it is about the Signature.

For what its worth, my own experience with Echole cables (purchased because I also have an Absolare integrated) was that they were good but over-rated. I had an Omnia XLR interconnect pair that ultimately was less satisfying (in my system) than a much less expensive pair of Black Cat Setsuna cables. Their resale value is atrocious, but that's generally the case with these things.