I recall reading Rajat Gupta's fall from grace was triggered by a desire to play in the financial big boys league (hedgies). 8 figures net worth was not enough - had to be 9 figures, preferably 10.
Do rich people work harder?
- Thread starter Andre Marc
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I recall reading Rajat Gupta's fall from grace was triggered by a desire to play in the financial big boys league (hedgies). 8 figures net worth was not enough - had to be 9 figures, preferably 10.
Hello, gentlemen. I just read this thread and a thought came to me after reading Tim's question above. Does it really matter how poor or rich you are? With the exception of one person in the world, no matter who you are.....there is always someone else wealthier than you.
To answer the thread's question.....Rich folks can decide themselves if they want to work harder or not and I do believe just based on my own observations that it is always situation an/or lifestyle dependent.
Tom
To answer the thread's question.....Rich folks can decide themselves if they want to work harder or not and I do believe just based on my own observations that it is always situation an/or lifestyle dependent.
Tom
I could get by on 25% more.
Nah, I'm good. I've made a lot more than this and a lot less, but I've reached the point where I have almost no debt, so it's plenty. If I had more coming in, I'd just put it in savings, trying to recover from '08. Well, what my wife didn't spend, that is. I just don't want much, I guess. A subwoofer maybe. And a Les Paul Jr. Then I'm done. Tim
Here is my axiom: The people who physically work the hardest earn the least amount of money.
There are lots of people working two and three jobs just to “get by.” Not living high on the hog, not enjoying luxuries-just existing. Anyone here ever worked in a factory in their life doing production work? Think about all the people who are working minimum wage jobs and how hard those people are worked and the lack of dignity and respect they receive from their bosses and the public.
There are lots of people working two and three jobs just to “get by.” Not living high on the hog, not enjoying luxuries-just existing. Anyone here ever worked in a factory in their life doing production work? Think about all the people who are working minimum wage jobs and how hard those people are worked and the lack of dignity and respect they receive from their bosses and the public.
--Nobody has ever said or promised us a rose garden.
What we think and what it is are two very different theories. ...Relativity?
* You are very right Mark, from your above post.
What we think and what it is are two very different theories. ...Relativity?
* You are very right Mark, from your above post.
The distinguishing characteristic I've noticed in rich people is that their 'passion' for the work itself is purely its potential for winning business or making money. For an engineer, talking to the boss can be a slightly disconcerting experience: the engineer mistakes the boss's interest in his work for something similar to his own sad little obsessions (fetishising brands of oscilloscope, getting a thrill from a neat tool in a CAD package) while the boss thinks that the engineer has a passion for business the same as his. The truth is that the little people just don't get the money thing: for us, if the heating breaks down at work and we have to go home, we're just like kids sent home from school - we get to spend some time playing. For the genuine business person, it's a major panic. For the wannabe business person it's a chance to look passionate about business, and feign some concern.
-- The poor people, they do post in this thread; the rich people, they don't. :b
...Money wise of course.
...Money wise of course.
I was asked by a gentleman who was worth well into the tens of million.."Why don't working people ever get rich?".....
Answer: "They are too busy working".
Maybe he should have said: "They are too busy making me rich."
I tell you what, Jon Stewart must have seen this thread, because he had Warren Buffet on last night.
He co wrote a book with Carol Loomis called "Tap Dancing to Work".
In the interview he said it was unconscionable that the average worker in his company paid a higher
tax rate than the top executives. He suggested a flat 30% rate for those earning a million plus, and 35% for
those earning 10 million plus.
He also said that the capital gains tax has utterly no bearing on investment, innovation, or venture capital.
The interview is definitely worthy watching online.
Putting aside whether the rich work harder than anyone else...we must explode the myth
of the "over taxed rich".
On Jon Stewart, Buffet claims that 25% of the 400 highest earning American tax payers in 2009, where the most recent
figures are available, paid less than 15% of their earnings in tax.
I repeat, 100 out of the 400 highest earners in the USA paid 15% OR less in Federal taxes. Stunning.
Six of the 400 highest earners filing tax returns actually paid....NO taxes.
of the "over taxed rich".
On Jon Stewart, Buffet claims that 25% of the 400 highest earning American tax payers in 2009, where the most recent
figures are available, paid less than 15% of their earnings in tax.
I repeat, 100 out of the 400 highest earners in the USA paid 15% OR less in Federal taxes. Stunning.
Six of the 400 highest earners filing tax returns actually paid....NO taxes.
In my business, I work with and associate with people with very large bank accounts. One of my clients owns homes all over the world, some of the priciest properties on the planet. He flies all over the world in his private jet and has assistants and employees at his beck and call. I would venture to say that he makes more money in a month than probably all of us do in a year.
Here's the thing, he's the poorest individual I know...
Why, because this gentleman has no true friends, no family, a wife that is only interested in the next sparkly bauble and has no interest in anything besides possessions, he spends most nights by himself with little to no interaction with anyone except 'employees'. To add to this his health is now failing and all his wife and his wife's family can do is to squabble about who is going to get the inheritance. I, for one, have pity for this individual and would not want to be in his position for all the money in the world....
IMHO, money does NOT bring happiness and it certainly does NOT bring true wealth. True wealth is someone who has an adoring family, is happy in his life and understands that possessions aren't the most imprortant thing in life. BUT to truly understand this, I think one has to be exposed to someone like my client once in awhile...it's an eye opener.
Just IMHO.
Here's the thing, he's the poorest individual I know...
Why, because this gentleman has no true friends, no family, a wife that is only interested in the next sparkly bauble and has no interest in anything besides possessions, he spends most nights by himself with little to no interaction with anyone except 'employees'. To add to this his health is now failing and all his wife and his wife's family can do is to squabble about who is going to get the inheritance. I, for one, have pity for this individual and would not want to be in his position for all the money in the world...
.IMHO, money does NOT bring happiness and it certainly does NOT bring true wealth. True wealth is someone who has an adoring family, is happy in his life and understands that possessions aren't the most imprortant thing in life. BUT to truly understand this, I think one has to be exposed to someone like my client once in awhile...it's an eye opener.
Just IMHO.
Actually the US Tax system is highly progressive. The top 10 percent of income earners paid 71 percent of all federal income taxes in 2009 though they earned 43 percent of all income. The bottom 50 percent paid 2 percent of income taxes but earned 13 percent of total income. About half of tax filers paid no federal income tax at all.
The richest 400 families paid nearly as much income tax as the bottom 50%...Stunning:
I admire Buffett and am a long time Berkshire owner but he's a hypocrite here. If he were serious, he'd send his estate to the IRS instead of the Gates' Foundation.
In my business, I work with and associate with people with very large bank accounts. One of my clients owns homes all over the world, some of the priciest properties on the planet. He flies all over the world in his private jet and has assistants and employees at his beck and call. I would venture to say that he makes more money in a month than probably all of us do in a year.
Here's the thing, he's the poorest individual I know...
Why, because this gentleman has no true friends, no family, a wife that is only interested in the next sparkly bauble and has no interest in anything besides possessions, he spends most nights by himself with little to no interaction with anyone except 'employees'. To add to this his health is now failing and all his wife and his wife's family can do is to squabble about who is going to get the inheritance. I, for one, have pity for this individual and would not want to be in his position for all the money in the world...
IMHO, money does NOT bring happiness and it certainly does NOT bring true wealth. True wealth is someone who has an adoring family, is happy in his life and understands that possessions aren't the most imprortant thing in life. BUT to truly understand this, I think one has to be exposed to someone like my client once in awhile...it's an eye opener.
Just IMHO.
---- Davey, I just luv your post. Thx for sharing it with us.
I would be surprised if there were any folks on an AUDIOPHILE forum who have a NEGATIVE net worth, as I do. The back taxes, interest and lien fees on my home are probably more than I could sell it and all its contents for. From a legal standpoint, my net worth is below that of a homeless person! I live on borrowed time. Yeah, I have multiple talents, but the worst marketing and social skills. I'm brutally honest, which I suppose makes me a study in the "polar opposite" of the rich. One can probably make a good argument that many of the rich get there by social background, narcissism and dishonesty (ie., screwing the other guy).
When it comes to hob-knobbing with the rich, they can tell that you're a peasant and won't have anything to do with you. I'm like the guy that cleans the toilets. I used to do a few piano recital recordings for some wealthy clients (I looked up the real estate values on Zillo and they were multi-million dollar homes on the shore). They pay me my measly $500 and for that, I commute 2 hours round trip, spend 2.5 hours in their home doing multiple takes until their budding Beethoven gets it right, then drive home and slave over the editing and authoring of the whole thing to DVD for the next four hours. Then a year goes by without ANY work.
Granted, I've not been idle. I spend from April to October gutting rotten superstructure of my dilapidated home and rebuilding a wall at a time. I spent all summer rebuilding most of the north wall, two stories high. I had to use two tiers of scaffolding to reach everything because the ceilings are 12' high at the west end of the sloping roof. And I don't do heights.. so I built elaborate scaffolding with removable tiers so I could work at various heights. I tore out one stud at a time and replaced them all, then insulated and re-sheathed, then on the interior, ripped down all the busted up sheetrock and redid the drywall during Hurricane Sandy. I would come in dead tired and just crash on the couch and fall asleep right away. All that work and no paycheck to pay the taxes with. Damned frustrating.
A while back, before I was banned in 2006, I had a blog on an Objectivist web site and one of the entries was some information about how the rich got rich. The number one source of wealth was inherited. Then there were the dishonest businessmen who got rich by screwing other people out of their money. There was something like 2% of the rich who actually EARNED it honestly. I wish I could find the original web site where I gleaned that data, but alas, my blog was taken down years ago and the posts are gone.
Maybe it depends on what you call rich. Most of the "very successful" people I know are honest and hard-working. They might be too focused on career to be very good at much else in their lives, but these cheating, dishonest, grossly self-indulgent rich? Can't say I've run into more than a couple of those in my lifetime.
Tim
Tim
Actually the US Tax system is highly progressive. The top 10 percent of income earners paid 71 percent of all federal income taxes in 2009 though they earned 43 percent of all income. The bottom 50 percent paid 2 percent of income taxes but earned 13 percent of total income. About half of tax filers paid no federal income tax at all.
The richest 400 families paid nearly as much income tax as the bottom 50%...Stunning:
I admire Buffett and am a long time Berkshire owner but he's a hypocrite here. If he were serious, he'd send his estate to the IRS instead of the Gates' Foundation.
Yeah, there's a huge tax liability gap between the top 10 percent and the top 1%. Mostly due to the massive one between the salaried class, even at the highest levels, and the investment class. And when you get all the way down to splitting it 50/50, the numbers are even more dramatic; they can make it look like half the country is getting a free ride. The percentage of working poor in America is much higher than most of us in the middle class ever imagine, and huge numbers of them make so little that they have no federal income tax liability at all.
This, of course, is why those in favor of progressive taxes always find their anecdotes in the top 1%, those opposed always find theirs further down where the numbers suit their story, and never frame them in % of income paid. Can't blame them; we all tell our stories from the best perspective, but the bottom line is America's income tax system is much less progressive than it was a few decades ago and most of the rest of America's tax system is not progressive at all. As a result many of the working poor actually paying a greater % of their income into taxes than even the middle class. Now, they make so little that even a high % made up of payroll, state, local, sales, etc., doesn't look like much compared to the small % of income tax paid by the very wealthy, so the anecdotes are still easy to weave. But what are you going to do? Civilization costs money, and you can't get it from those who have nothing more to give. We can bitch about it all we like, but if we think we're going to reduce the deficit and fund the nation by raising income taxes on the bottom 50% we're smoking crack.
We already tried to raise money by lowering taxes on the top, thinking their investments would trickle down to fuel a great economic engine that would enrich us all. Watch where you step; there are 30 years worth of crack pipes on the floor.
Tim
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