Do rich people work harder?

[FrantzM]

About Buffet...

He is more than a bit disingenuous. The bastard owes IRS one billion dollars that he refuses to pay. They are suing him, and his legal team is doing whatever they need to do to stall all efforts to collect. Still, Ol' Warren has the poor at heart, I'm sure. Speaking of, did he ever give that poverty stricken secretary of his a raise?

Care to elaborate a bit about that? For my information

 

[Andre Marc]

Care to elaborate a bit about that? For my information

Actually Buffet's secretary is very well paid...Buffet was just commenting that she paid a higher tax rate on her salary than he did
on his residual income.

 

[FrantzM]

Actually Buffet's secretary is very well paid...Buffet was just commenting that she paid a higher tax rate on her salary than he did
on his residual income.

That was my impression from the interview on The Daily Show ... I still would like to know where that piece of information came from, that W. Buffet very own secretary is "poverty-stricken" ??

Or is it relative to Buffet very own compensation? Maybe what she makes (Millions?) is nothing compared to his billions ... Many would like to be so "Poverty-Stricken"

 

[NorthStar]

I would be surprised if there were any folks on an AUDIOPHILE forum who have a NEGATIVE net worth, as I do. The back taxes, interest and lien fees on my home are probably more than I could sell it and all its contents for. From a legal standpoint, my net worth is below that of a homeless person! I live on borrowed time. Yeah, I have multiple talents, but the worst marketing and social skills. I'm brutally honest, which I suppose makes me a study in the "polar opposite" of the rich. One can probably make a good argument that many of the rich get there by social background, narcissism and dishonesty (ie., screwing the other guy).
When it comes to hob-knobbing with the rich, they can tell that you're a peasant and won't have anything to do with you. I'm like the guy that cleans the toilets. I used to do a few piano recital recordings for some wealthy clients (I looked up the real estate values on Zillo and they were multi-million dollar homes on the shore). They pay me my measly $500 and for that, I commute 2 hours round trip, spend 2.5 hours in their home doing multiple takes until their budding Beethoven gets it right, then drive home and slave over the editing and authoring of the whole thing to DVD for the next four hours. Then a year goes by without ANY work.
Granted, I've not been idle. I spend from April to October gutting rotten superstructure of my dilapidated home and rebuilding a wall at a time. I spent all summer rebuilding most of the north wall, two stories high. I had to use two tiers of scaffolding to reach everything because the ceilings are 12' high at the west end of the sloping roof. And I don't do heights.. so I built elaborate scaffolding with removable tiers so I could work at various heights. I tore out one stud at a time and replaced them all, then insulated and re-sheathed, then on the interior, ripped down all the busted up sheetrock and redid the drywall during Hurricane Sandy. I would come in dead tired and just crash on the couch and fall asleep right away. All that work and no paycheck to pay the taxes with. Damned frustrating.
A while back, before I was banned in 2006, I had a blog on an Objectivist web site and one of the entries was some information about how the rich got rich. The number one source of wealth was inherited. Then there were the dishonest businessmen who got rich by screwing other people out of their money. There was something like 2% of the rich who actually EARNED it honestly. I wish I could find the original web site where I gleaned that data, but alas, my blog was taken down years ago and the posts are gone.

---- There is no way that I can leave this above post without a reply.

Mark, I know a great deal on what you're talkin' 'bout.
And it seems to me that your time would be better spent on you rather than others, if you know what I mean.

I could write a book or few on this subject, but I won't.

We have only one life to live, one shot at this world, and nobody else has anything to do with it, it's our life.

I'm not going to tell how very very hard I worked all my life, and the people I met along the way. I did work very hard, and I met all kind of people.

I am very rich too. I can have anything I want, even happiness.

But I tell you this though; I had my fair share of 'encounters' (experiences), and they helped me build who I am today.
Through my own eyes, my own visions, my dreams, my thoughts, I have learned to self-control myself from some of the surroundings I've been encircled once and some.

Here's: Action/Reaction/Interaction. This, is the world we live in. Nobody created it, nobody controls it, and nobody, poor or rich, has the power to dictate its direction (destiny). Que sera sera.

 

[NorthStar]

Maybe it depends on what you call rich. Most of the "very successful" people I know are honest and hard-working. They might be too focused on career to be very good at much else in their lives, but these cheating, dishonest, grossly self-indulgent rich? Can't say I've run into more than a couple of those in my lifetime.

Tim

---- Mark is conscious of that, it's just that it's very tough for him to free himself totally from the dark side, if you know what I mean.

 

[NorthStar]

-- Some of my best friends are some of the hardest working and poorest people.

And I know very very few people who are truly rich; but there are some, even here. :b

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Tim,

Your points are well taken.

That said, in the halcyon days of 91% marginal tax rates that Progressives wistfully pine for, Federal receipts ranged from 14.4%-19.0% of GDP while in the previous decade of lower tax rates for the rapacious rich, Federal receipts ranged from 15.1-20.6% of GDP (the 15.1% was the post Crash 2009). By the way, nobody paid 91% in taxes in the 1950's...high earners took advantage of a myriad of tax shelters. I think you would enjoy the thoughtful, civil discussion about tax rates and income inequality between William Voegeli and Timothy Noah prompted by Voegeli's review of Noah's book "The Great Divergence" which makes for fascinating reading (http://www.claremont.org/publications/crb/pageid.2752/default.asp.). Both sides lay out their arguments very well. I found this snippet quite thought provoking:



Civilization does cost money but government can not solve of all of societies programs and I think you would agree that it shouldn't try.

Back to the OT...My life experience leads me to conclude human virtues and flaws are distributed randomly including without regard to race, sexual orientation or income level. That includes willingness to work hard, envy, empathy, etc.

I actually agree with most of that, except that I know a lot of progressives and I don't think I've met or heard of a single one, in or out of office, who is proposing a 91% marginal tax rate. I think that one is what is commonly referred to as a straw man, though I must admit, I would have found it nearly impossible to resist myself.

Tim

PS:

Civilization does cost money but government can not solve of all of societies programs and I think you would agree that it shouldn't try.

I absolutely agree, but would add that there are some things we have attempted to privatize that just don't work well under the current capitalist model. Healthcare comes to mind: The free market will never work properly when life and death is on the line. People will go bankrupt to save loved ones and so the natural checks and balances of a competitive system will never properly apply. Does that mean we need a completely government-run system? No. But it means we need to think. Police, Fire, Military: That we are outsourcing key military security responsibilities is appallingly dangerous, and will blow up on us before it's over. Education: Know anyone who teaches at a for-profit college like Devry or the Art Institutes? Know many of the students? I do. There's a place where ROI is absolutely the wrong driver. If we expect to remain competitive, government has to properly fund all levels of education.

We've got a lot of work to do, and before we can get any of it done, we're going to have to start considering each other's points of view and understanding that the founders didn't build checks and balances into the system so we could divide into poloarized ideologies that either got their way or stomped their feet and refused to play. And I'm shaking that finger at both sides of the aisle.

Tim

 

[edorr]

I actually agree with most of that, except that I know a lot of progressives and I don't think I've met or heard of a single one, in or out of office, who is proposing a 91% marginal tax rate. I think that one is what is commonly referred to as a straw man, though I must admit, I would have found it nearly impossible to resist myself.

Tim

Even Francois Hollande drew the line at 75%....

 

[Mosin]

Actually Buffet's secretary is very well paid...Buffet was just commenting that she paid a higher tax rate on her salary than he did
on his residual income.

Actually, it was meant as satire. It is interesting, however, how the Far Left rails against the 1% unless it is their 1%. Then, they are quick to defend the rich guy whether he be Warren Buffet, George Soros, Michael Moore, Sean Penn, Bruce Springsteen, or some clueless rapper or sports figure. I find it to be terribly comedic, actually.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Actually, it was meant as satire. It is interesting, however, how the Far Left rails against the 1% unless it is their 1%. Then, they are quick to defend the rich guy whether he be Warren Buffet, George Soros, Michael Moore, Sean Penn, Bruce Springsteen, or some clueless rapper or sports figure. I find it to be terribly comedic, actually.

Is the far left against the 1%? The middle is just tired of carrying so much of their weight.

Tim

 

[MylesBAstor]

A very good acquaintance of mine is an attorney who represents the the super rich in Orange County. He said
in his opinion wealthy people work much harder...an average of 60-80 hours a week, while middle class people work
"only" 40 hours a week.

Any thoughts?

He's off his rocker! He doesn't have a clue and his head is in the sand.

Prima fascie evidence? Look at the number of "middle class" that hold down two jobs to pay the bills.

And I work 60+ hours a week and I'm not rich. Working 60+ hours has nothing to do with socioeconomic status but simply the reality of the times. Many, many people put those sort of hours in because companies have downsized, combined positions, etc., that result in increased work hours.

 

[Andre Marc]

Actually, it was meant as satire. It is interesting, however, how the Far Left rails against the 1% unless it is their 1%. Then, they are quick to defend the rich guy whether he be Warren Buffet, George Soros, Michael Moore, Sean Penn, Bruce Springsteen, or some clueless rapper or sports figure. I find it to be terribly comedic, actually.

BS. I am not defending Buffet. He is a crook, and always has been. But he is the patron saint of investing...and many of those spellbound by
proclamations are conservatives...(he is the last of the crusty old value investors)....are irritated by his new found "enlightenment".

 

[Andre Marc]

He's off his rocker! He doesn't have a clue and his head is in the sand.

Prima fascie evidence? Look at the number of "middle class" that hold down two jobs to pay the bills.

And I work 60+ hours a week and I'm not rich. Working 60+ hours has nothing to do with socioeconomic status but simply the reality of the times. Many, many people put those sort of hours in because companies have downsized, combined positions, etc., that result in increased work hours.

You are preaching to the converted. I know he is full of ****...the conservative/anti government/norquist crowd live in a fantasy bubble that the rich work harder
and are over taxed.

 

[NorthStar]

-- Myles is quite right; the hardest working people are poor,
and the laziest rich sunnabaggun people are robbers and 'escrocs' and corrupted and 'fraudeurs'.

There! :b

 

[Mark (Basspig) Weiss]

Hello, gentlemen. I just read this thread and a thought came to me after reading Tim's question above. Does it really matter how poor or rich you are? With the exception of one person in the world, no matter who you are.....there is always someone else wealthier than you.

To answer the thread's question.....Rich folks can decide themselves if they want to work harder or not and I do believe just based on my own observations that it is always situation an/or lifestyle dependent.

Tom

It matters a lot. If you have no money in this taxed society, they throw you out on the street, but since being homeless is against the law, the poor end up in prison next. Money is a requirement to live in America. The more of it you have, the better you can protect yourself from the government and its minions.

 

[NorthStar]

-- That is indeed the system we live in in America; capitalism. :b

 

[Mark (Basspig) Weiss]

-- That is indeed the system we live in in America; capitalism. :b

We do not have Capitalism in America. Never did. We have a mixed economy, part Socialism, part Marxism, mostly Fascism.
Capitalism requires ZERO government regulation in order to exist. We never quite made it to Capitalism.. maybe close prior to 1860, but not completely.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Mark, how do you keep starting businesses predicated on substantial investments in electronics, powering a 16,000 watt sound system and re-building the infrastructure of your house, beam by beam, on < $10k gross a year? And why? You could make more with no capital investment, as an employee doing repairs at an electronics shop. You could make more working at Best Buy.

Not my business and you don't need to answer, but I can't make the math work.

Tim

 

[Andre Marc]

Mark, how do you keep starting businesses predicated on substantial investments in electronics, powering a 16,000 watt sound system and re-building the infrastructure of your house, beam by beam, on < $10k gross a year? And why? You could make more with no capital investment, as an employee doing repairs at an electronics shop. You could make more working at Best Buy.

Not my business and you don't need to answer, but I can't make the math work.

Tim

Fantasy math and voodoo budget numbers? Sounds like a Republican!!!

 

[DaveyF]

BS. I am not defending Buffet. He is a crook, and always has been. But he is the patron saint of investing...and many of those spellbound by
proclamations are conservatives...(he is the last of the crusty old value investors)....are irritated by his new found "enlightenment".

Andre, I have a feeling that history isn't going to be kind to Mr Warren Buffet and his ilk ( can we say megalomaniacs here). BTW, did you know that he owns, among so many other things...See's candies. So next time you order the half pound box, that fact maybe something to think about, LOL