QSonix Q205

[LL21]

Has anyone heard this? I have read that it is a QSonix re-worked by Wadia (new owner) with all the audiophile bells for high quality digital transfer: electrical shielding, impedance matching, high quality power supplies and dedicated power supplies for digital output stage, balanced digital outs...everything they claim to reduce jitter.

Self-contained unit (screen plus 2TB drive with CD rom and USB-input capability) is roughly USD7K.

very intrigued to hear...have asked for audition. Meanwhile, appreciate anyone's feedback about how it compares to SOTA transports/SOTA servers. I am focused mainly on absolute performance (for the moment) less about relative price/value/cost. I will focus on value in step 2...but first i would appreciate people's impressions about whether it is truly SOTA (DCS, Playback Designs, Zanden, etc). Thanks!!!

 

[AMP]

Very timely thread as I had previously looked at the QSonix, but didn't consider it a viable product for my needs due to a few missing features:

- m4a support (AAC, Apple Lossless, etc)
- Composer tag support (essential for dealing with Classical recordings)
- "Audiophile Grade" digital output

With the release of the Q205 and a few software updates it looks like these have all been addressed.

I'm checking with my dealer to see if he can bring in a demo unit that I can play with for a while, but from everything that I've read this looks like a very good fit for my needs. I'll be interested to read of your impressions as well.

In my case I'll likely forgo the touch screen as it would be of little use in my small listening room. From what I've read it appears that the iPad app duplicates the functionality nicely.

At this price, though, there are a number of other options out there and I wonder how it compares.

 

[LL21]

Great! We should definitely "compare notes". Usually, the dealer has an ARC CD 8, Krell 505 or some other high quality transport (even if not Zanden, Kalista or Esoteric) They also have Wadia which i think actually is Esoteric. I will post my notes after comparing. it may be a week or 2 depending on when they can get it in, but having read about it on Saturday morning, i went straight in to the dealer and asked, and he has now emailed the Distributor to set up a demo. And it appears the Distributor had already emailed him about me with respect to the 205 suspecting i would want to hear it.

look forward to your post!

 

[Vincent Kars]

A couple more Music Servers: http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/HD_players.html

 

[AMP]

Great! We should definitely "compare notes". Usually, the dealer has an ARC CD 8, Krell 505 or some other high quality transport (even if not Zanden, Kalista or Esoteric) They also have Wadia which i think actually is Esoteric. I will post my notes after comparing. it may be a week or 2 depending on when they can get it in, but having read about it on Saturday morning, i went straight in to the dealer and asked, and he has now emailed the Distributor to set up a demo. And it appears the Distributor had already emailed him about me with respect to the 205 suspecting i would want to hear it.

look forward to your post!

Wadia and Esoteric are different (some would say very different). There was a time when Wadia used the TEAC (Esoteric) VRDS transport mechanism, but that isn't the case any more.

If your dealer has a Wadia S7i on display then this would be an excellent comparison piece. I have one and would consider it to be SOTA for single box playback, plus it has digital inputs. I'd be very interested to hear your impressions of a CD played through the Wadia's internal drive vs. the same disc played via the QSonix via the Wadia's DAC.

I have a modified Sonos that I've been using for several years and it has served me very well. Up until I got the Wadia (previously using a Theta Gen VIII series II) I could tell little meaningful difference between the original disc and the ripped file. Once the Wadia was in place I find the files to be inferior to the playback of the original disc. This is what has started me on the search for a new server platform.

The problem for me is the fact that the Sonos interface is one of the best available and I have yet to find a more audiophile product with a similarly well thought out interface. The QSonix looks promising, but only time will tell.

 

[LL21]

I agree. I have heard Wadia 7. It is excellent with tremendous detail and natural tonality. Very rare. I compared it with modified Esoteric X-01SE. Your comments about Wadia changing u back to trnsport is interesting...and its exactly what makes me think about Zanden transport...stay tuned!

 

[AMP]

Just checking in to see if you've had a chance to audition the qsonix yet. My dealer has one incoming for me to play with, but no ETA yet.

 

[LL21]

Hi AMP, Not yet. i had 2 things to audition...DCS Scarlatti full stack and the Q205. i am hoping they will both be in so i can compare Scarlatti transport to Q205...i am not expecting a contest...but you never know, or it might be closer than i am expecting. in any event, i did hear DCS and posted my thoughts on another Threat regarding DCS...check recent posts and you will see it. i hope to hear it next week...will post as soon as i do. Pls do likewise!!!

 

[AMP]

I did finally get a demo unit in last week and although I haven't had a chance to really play with it yet my feelings are definitely mixed. Although I've been assured that I'll get used to the user interface and come to love it, I'm at a point now where it takes me considerably more time to find a given piece of music on the Q205 than it does on my Sonos setup. I plan to wipe the demo tracks from this Q205 and load in my library with the hope that my classification scheme will make locating what I want to hear a little bit easier.

I haven't done much as far as sonic comparison between the Sonos and the Q205, but what little I have done suggests that the Cullen-modified Sonos really can hold its own. The Q205 does sound incrementally better, but that improvement comes at a price that is an order of magnitude higher.

 

[audioguy]

Interesting. The reason I went with the qSonix was the user interface. Absolutely love it.

Sonically, it more than meets my needs. I use an external DAC (Benchmark) and the sound incredible. But, as I have learned over the last 40 bazillion years in this hobby, we all have different tastes!!

Mine is NOT the 205 although I could get the Wadia upgrade if I chose to -- but I don't. Mine is the 110.

The iPad and iPhone interface are also quite nice. They just released a new version of the iPad APP and it mimics the regular touch pad quite nicely. Love this product a LOT!!!

It has dramatically changed (in a positive way) the way I listen to music.

 

[LL21]

I haven't done much as far as sonic comparison between the Sonos and the Q205, but what little I have done suggests that the Cullen-modified Sonos really can hold its own. The Q205 does sound incrementally better, but that improvement comes at a price that is an order of magnitude higher.

Thanks AMP...as you make more observations about sound quality, please keep us posted! i am still waiting for chance to hear one and compare to reference level transport.

 

[AMP]

To be honest I haven't had much time at all this past week to do much of anything with the Q205. My plan is to pickup a 2TB drive this week and backup the unit as it was delivered to me, then go back and delete all of the content and load my own. That's really the only way that I'm going to be able to see if it will work for me. I have my own method for filing my music so as not to get genre-overload and it's nothing like the group of genres and styles on the demo library.

Although the geek in me likes the touchscreen I have to say that it's been a problem finding a place to put it in my room. Right now it's occupying the space normally held by my record cleaning machine. I'd love to put it on the little end table next to my chair, but the 17" version that they delivered is too big. The iPad app does help, but it's currently not a replacement for the touchscreen, and according to Qsonix it will take considerable time for the iPad app to fully mature.

So here's a good example... I decided that I wanted to listen to a CD that happens to be loaded both in my Sonos library and the Qsonix. From picking up the controller to music playing on the Sonos is about 10 seconds with all of about 4 or 5 clicks. With the Qsonix it's almost a minute with 15 - 20 clicks (or more).

The only thing keeping me going with the Qsonix eval is knowing that in the future I won't have physical media for all of the digital content in my library. Currently if I want to listen critically I grab the CD, but in the future that won't be possible. I want the best possible file playback source, which is why I'm going through this, but don't want to give up the convenience that I've grown accustomed to with the Sonos.

 

[LL21]

Hi AMP,

the fact that you still pull out the CD for critical listening says something to me. If you can estimate it, how much out of 100% does the Q205 get you to CD in transport assuming we calibrate this by saying your CD in transport is 100% (presumably into same DAC)? What transport are you using?

 

[audioguy]

With the Qsonix it's almost a minute with 15 - 20 clicks (or more).

I've had my Qsonix for a number of years and my experience is a bit different. It takes me no time at all to find and start a piece of music (but I will say I've never "timed it"). My room is dual purpose and when I'm going to listen to music, I move the small table with the display on it by my chair but primarily use the iPad once I get up and running.

I've played with a number of other control systems for music servers and found the qsonix to be the easiest (which, by the way, is why I selected it over the other contenders in the first place).

I hope it works out for you.

 

[AMP]

I've had my Qsonix for a number of years and my experience is a bit different. It takes me no time at all to find and start a piece of music (but I will say I've never "timed it"). My room is dual purpose and when I'm going to listen to music, I move the small table with the display on it by my chair but primarily use the iPad once I get up and running.

I think that with my own library loaded I would have an easier time locating things. The unit that was delivered had about 750CDs worth of music loaded and the classification scheme used made the task of finding anything difficult.

So here's the rub... I can't wipe the system clean and load my library! Qsonix confirmed that there isn't a method to erase everything and the work-around that they suggested only deleted media files, not the database entries. My only option to eliminate their music and database is to manually go through all 750 CDs and delete each one! Same goes if I load my library onto this box. In order to remove the music and database entries I would have to select each disc individually and delete it.

I discovered a few bugs in the iPad interface including one in which I could select an album and it would pull up details on a completely different album.

Overall, I'm not impressed with the interface and some of the limitations in the system. This is likely due to my background in IT and data storage, but I started getting really frustrated. When we did system architecture we always focused on allowing our product to adapt to the customer's process. The Qsonix is 100% the opposite in that I have to completely change how I store, classify, and manage my digital files in order to use the product.

At this point I don't want to devote any more time to an evaluation of a product which I know I'm not going to buy... so I'll wait another 12 months and evaluate options again.

As for sonics:

My transport and DAC are a Wadia S7i.

Assuming that the transport in the Wadia yields a score of 100 then I'd say that the Qsonix ends up in the 97 range. Everything is there, but after ripping a few CDs into the Qsonix and then doing an A/B comparison I found that the spinning disc in the Wadia seemed to have better "presence" and a more believable sound stage. Also, my go-to instruments for digital evaluation (piano, cymbals, brass) all sounded a bit more natural through the Wadia acting as the transport. This is to be expected, though, as the signal path between the transport and DAC inside the Wadia is short and the clocking mechanism is very precise.

I will be the first to admit that the frustration with the Qsonix started before I tried to evaluate sonics so I may have been preconditioned not to like it.

On the same scale the Cullen-modified SONOS ZP-90 scored about 95. It's almost as good as the Qsonix, but again the difficult instruments sounded a bit more strained.

Both the Qsonix and SONOS were connected to the Wadia using Transparent Reference digital cables (AES/EBU on the Qsonix and Coax on the SONOS).

 

[LL21]

Thanks...that is an extremely helpful synopsis of your experience. I am still considering a s/hand transport and waiting until the sonics of the servers blow away transports...and also until the mediums settle down a bit. 24/96, 32/192...

 

[Morbius]

Overall, I'm not impressed with the interface and some of the limitations in the system. This is likely due to my background in IT and data storage, but I started getting really frustrated. When we did system architecture we always focused on allowing our product to adapt to the customer's process. The Qsonix is 100% the opposite in that I have to completely change how I store, classify, and manage my digital files in order to use the product.

Why do care how the files are stored / classified as long as you can access them conveniently. The Qsonix can search by artist name, album name genre... You may not like the way they are stored, but I would have thought that an IT professional would be able to figure out how to "game the system". For example, since the system organizes CDs by artists names, if you would like to group a bunch of CDs together on the display, you can prepend the artist's name with keyword in order to "trick" the system to group the CDs the way you like. It's not advertised as a feature, but you can usually get the system to do what you want if you use a little imagination and cleverness.

Greg

 

[Morbius]

Currently if I want to listen critically I grab the CD, but in the future that won't be possible. I want the best possible file playback source, which is why I'm going through this,

If you want to listen critically, why are you reaching for the CD. The disk drive will give you the same digital data, but with less jitter.
If you use a DAC that operates in asynchronous USB mode, then the DAC can be the master of the communications protocol and own
the clock, whereas the CD route uses the less than optimal clock recovery from the data stream.

Greg

 

[audioguy]

If you want to listen critically, why are you reaching for the CD. The disk drive will give you the same digital data, but with less jitter.
If you use a DAC that operates in asynchronous USB mode, then the DAC can be the master of the communications protocol and own the clock, whereas the CD route uses the less than optimal clock recovery from the data stream.

Greg

+1

 

[AMP]

Why do care how the files are stored / classified as long as you can access them conveniently. The Qsonix can search by artist name, album name genre... You may not like the way they are stored, but I would have thought that an IT professional would be able to figure out how to "game the system". For example, since the system organizes CDs by artists names, if you would like to group a bunch of CDs together on the display, you can prepend the artist's name with keyword in order to "trick" the system to group the CDs the way you like. It's not advertised as a feature, but you can usually get the system to do what you want if you use a little imagination and cleverness.

Greg

My issue isn't with how files are stored. It's with the way in which the Qsonix user interface works. I'm not a fan and that's my own opinion.

Sure, I could jump through a bunch of hoops to make it do what I want, but that was exactly my point... for $8000 I shouldn't have to!

If you want to listen critically, why are you reaching for the CD. The disk drive will give you the same digital data, but with less jitter.
If you use a DAC that operates in asynchronous USB mode, then the DAC can be the master of the communications protocol and own
the clock, whereas the CD route uses the less than optimal clock recovery from the data stream.

Greg

Now you're just quoting out of context. Currently (as in with equipment that I OWN) I use the silver disc as the reference as the Sonos does have a noticeable sonic hit. My whole point for evaluating a product like the Qsonix was to get to a point where I don't have to go and grab the CD in order to listen critically.