New sound room woes

[newmill]

Just built a new room 16'-2" x 21'. Moved my gear in and was so disappointed at the sound. Bass is non existent. Could it be that my ref 75 can't drive my Sonus Faber Elipsas? My old room had carpet and room treatment. Thanks.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Newmill, I feel for you. In my case, going to a room w carpets and treatments has deffo helped. Can't advise re gear issues.

My advice, FWIW, don't panic. Think it thru. Many here will advise you. Good luck.

 

[newmill]

Thanks for your reply and encouragement. Yes I was stressing a bit. I must comment, that you were wrong about the help I would get here lol.......but nevertheless, I will continue the post. It turns out that I had a it of an issue with my media player, and this was causing some issues. Two firmware updates later, and it seems much better. Back to the happy task of setting up my new room. Thanks again som for your reply.

 

[Bruce B]

More than likely, you’re sitting at a null point or your speakers need to be moved in a more optimal position. Just those 2 things should get you 90-95% there. The last 10% is a bitch!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

this might help you to understand what Bruce is referring to. you can get an RTA meter and walk around the room and find nulls and peaks at particular frequencies. each room will react differently, and each speaker and listening position will also be different. but with a little work you will find the best compromise.

congrats on the new room btw, you will get it figured out.

 

[microstrip]

Nice picture text books address ideal 100% reflective walls with speakers in the corners - real life is sometimes quite different. Nulls and peaks are created by distance between speakers and boundaries, you should move your speakers as Bruce suggested, the Sonus Faber Elipsa can sound easily sound bass light if not properly placed, the great midrange and treble suffocating the bass. Sonus Faber suggests starting with the rule of the thirds in their manuals - positioning speakers and listener at one third and two thirds of the length of the room.

Our perception of bass is extremely subjective - some times a fault elsewhere in the spectra makes us feel we have poor bass. What are the materials used in your walls and room furnishing?

 

[newmill]

Thanks for more insight. The graphic helps me understand a lot better. I may have posted this in the wrong forum category, but I thought it might an Audio Research Amp issue. Should I try to reposition things in the room before or after room treatments are applied.

 

[steve59]

Please share your results. My room is 17'x17'+10x10 making the long wall 27'. The best Bass rolls off steeply at 70 hz with full range speakers bass is down 20 DB by 50 and -40 at 30 hz! Revel salon2's, ushers be 20's etc. Lesser full range speakers bass disappears after 80 hz. With the exception of holding the mic a foot away from the port low bass just vanishes. I've tried bi amping to confirm plenty of power. Walking around the room only locates a bit of deep bass stuffed in a corner. If your problem mimics mine and you find a solution please share

 

[Bobvin]

I used a REf75 in my room ~ 18 x 29 x 9’7”, driving Alexias. There was bass but not like after I switched to REF160M. The new amps grab the woofers in a much more authoritative way, but the sound with the REF75 was still very good. What size space were you coming from?

Other’s advice re setup is crucial, you won’t get the best from your rig without truely dialing-in the setup. Always consider hiring that step out unless you have lots of experience, it is worth it considering how much we pay for gear.

 

[steve59]

I'm going from mid size floorstanders and am finding even with speakers with double the volume, drivers and cabinets the bass hasn't really changed! I believe i've exhausted my options and think i'll be taking your advice about hiring a pro. Thanks for the time.

 

[trekpilot]

You may want to see if you have someone near you that can do the Sumiko Master Set...I just had this done last week and it was a huge improvement. Bass was better balanced and more defined less one note bass. Imaging was well outside the speakers and vocals didn't shift around as I move my head, everything had it's spot in the mix.

 

[steve59]

I used a REf75 in my room ~ 18 x 29 x 9’7”, driving Alexias. There was bass but not like after I switched to REF160M. The new amps grab the woofers in a much more authoritative way, but the sound with the REF75 was still very good. What size space were you coming from?

Other’s advice re setup is crucial, you won’t get the best from your rig without truely dialing-in the setup. Always consider hiring that step out unless you have lots of experience, it is worth it considering how much we pay for gear.

 

[steve59]

I'm aware of the sumiko 5 star system but not details of it. Can you describe the set up?

 

[trekpilot]

The Master Set is done by using Jennifer Warnes "Ballad of a runaway horse" mainly the bass guitar at the beginning of the song and how the bass fills/ loads the room. Farther along in the process you use her voice to get a centrally located image. There are no measurements involved it's all done by ear. If you google Sumiko Master Set there is a description of what is involved but be warned key pieces are missing or wrong from what the process actually is....but it gives you an idea of whats involved.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Please share your results. My room is 17'x17'+10x10 making the long wall 27'. The best Bass rolls off steeply at 70 hz with full range speakers bass is down 20 DB by 50 and -40 at 30 hz! Revel salon2's, ushers be 20's etc. Lesser full range speakers bass disappears after 80 hz. With the exception of holding the mic a foot away from the port low bass just vanishes. I've tried bi amping to confirm plenty of power. Walking around the room only locates a bit of deep bass stuffed in a corner. If your problem mimics mine and you find a solution please share

Hello Steve,

I don’t understand your dimension nomenclature. What does 17’ + 10 mean if not 27’?

Is your room 17’ wide and 27’ long and 10’ high? (That is a wonderfully big room!)

 

[steve59]

Looking down the left wall is 17' back is 17' right wall is 27' back wall is 10' to another 10' left then 10' to the corner

 

[Ron Resnick]

Looking down the left wall is 17' back is 17' right wall is 27' back wall is 10' to another 10' left then 10' to the corner

I give up!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Looking down the left wall is 17' back is 17' right wall is 27' back wall is 10' to another 10' left then 10' to the corner

I give up!

imagine a 17' x 17' living room with an adjoining 10' x 10' dining room. one wall would be 27' long. we'd find that sort of room in many homes i would think. so it's a very real world situation. we don't know if this space can be closed off or if there are open spaces to hallways or another room, or how many and size of windows.. that would be important to how bass would work.

not saying that is what is going on, but it's how it appears to be from the info given.

 

[steve59]

Mike nailed it. the 10x10 is also part of the stairs going up from the basement and behind that section are the mechanicals so that area is staying closed off. I also have computer tables along the left wall that I thought would be good for diffraction, but in reality really narrow speaker placement. Ceilings are 7' drywall, but i'm in the process of installing acoustic tiles to hopefully reduce early reflection from the low ceiling.

 

[newmill]

Quick update: I believe a large part of my anemic bass response was related to the new furutech receptacle that powers my AR preamp. After some break in it is much improved. Once again happy with my Audio Research gear. Not sufficiently happy with my room. This seems to be such a misunderstood area of physics and doesnt seem to get the attention it needs. Im going to spend some time learning as much as I can. Any experienced audiophiles opinions are greatly appreciated.