MSB Renderer Setups

[Robnpg]

Would like to know about MSB users with Renderers in place. What are Your setups like to feed the Renderer? What has your journey been like getting there? Would you do things differently?

 

[asiufy]

The beauty of the Renderer is that it doesn't take much to get great sound.
I use an SoTM switch, and last week I got the new DJM Filter (sucessor to their popular Gigafoil), very nice unit, much better than the original.
Roon Core can either be the store's Innuos server or my Mac (that hosts my own music collection).
A good network cable helps, and I'm using Kubala-Sosna there, but just for the "last" cable, between the DJM filter and the Renderer.

HTH!
Alex

 

[Young Skywalker]

I am a long term user of the Renderer V2 module. Initially, it was installed in my Reference DAC and it now resides in my Reference Digital Director which is galvanically isolated from the Reference DAC. My Renderer module takes an ethernet cable from a wall plate that is wired back to a remotely-located commercial grade network switch fed by a Ubiquiti Amplifi mesh router. My Roon Nucleus Plus resides on the same hard wired network. No issues with sound quality at all. Could it be improved with thousands of dollars spent on linear power supplies and other isolation gizmos that purport to do exactly what the MSB Digital Director does? Perhaps, although I am very skeptical. Do I care at this point? No.

 

[Brucemck2]

I’ve got a Reference with a Digital Director. The sonics fed by an Antipodes K50 outputting AES/EBU are materially better than the same upstream chain feed into the Renderer. (Physical files are resident on the K50. Playbook via Roon. SwitchX as primary upstream feed.)

 

[Robnpg]

I’ve got a Reference with a Digital Director. The sonics fed by an Antipodes K50 outputting AES/EBU are materially better than the same upstream chain feed into the Renderer. (Physical files are resident on the K50. Playbook via Roon. SwitchX as primary upstream feed.)

Awesome. So you have an aes input on your director then? And you prefer that over the renderer? cool

 

[Bones13]

I use a DIY Roon ROCK server (NUC in an Akasa Fanless case) in my server room (top shelf of my wives closet, next to the router).

Hub in my man cave gets the Ethernet from the server room, and feeds an optical cable to an UpTone Audio etherRegen. TriodeWireLabs Ethernet cable to the Renderer V2.

I was using this setup previously with a Bricasti M12.

 

[Arewethereyet]

Coming late into this conversation, but I have comments as well as similar questions.

I have the MSB Reference DAC (no DD) with both the Pro ISL module and the Renderer. I am currently using the Renderer wired through an Wireworld Ethernet cable from the wall into an LHY-6 Ethernet switch, then passing thru a MUON Pro filter on into the MSB DAC. The sound is fantastic. I have an older Mac Pro 2013 edition acting as my server in another room wired into a Netgear basic ethernet switch that connects the entire house including my listening room. I use Roon to stream from Qobuz/Tidal and play owned files stored on the Mac Pro.

I have A/B tested both the Pro ISL streaming from a Rose 150B with an AQ Coffee USB cable into the Pro ISL box and then into the MSB DAC along with the current direct wired connection as described above into the DAC Renderer module. The verdict, I prefer the Renderer sound results over the Pro ISL coming from the Rose 150B. I also enjoy controlling the playback using the MSB remote.

Have other MSB DAC owners compared sonic playback between the Pro ISL and the Renderer? What is your setup/variables in the chain? Which do you prefer?

 

[cminer]

Robnpg

I have an MSB Reference DAC (no Digital Director) with the ProISL and the Renderer V2. They are fed from an Innuos Statement NG using a Transparent USB and ethernet cables. The Statement is connected to my local network through a Muon ethernet filter. I've A/Bd the ProISL and Renderer extensively and my preference is for the ProISL. To my ear, the soundstage is wider and deeper. The other aspects of the presentation (bass, mid, highs, etc.) are very similar.

Hope that helps.

 

[Arewethereyet]

Robnpg

I have an MSB Reference DAC (no Digital Director) with the ProISL and the Renderer V2. They are fed from an Innuos Statement NG using a Transparent USB and ethernet cables. The Statement is connected to my local network through a Muon ethernet filter. I've A/Bd the ProISL and Renderer extensively and my preference is for the ProISL. To my ear, the soundstage is wider and deeper. The other aspects of the presentation (bass, mid, highs, etc.) are very similar.

Hope that helps.

Other than the ARC Amp and Innuos Statement, we have very similar systems. I appreciate your input. Cheers.

 

[cminer]

Other than the ARC Amp and Innuos Statement, we have very similar systems. I appreciate your input. Cheers.

Yes, very similar!

 

[Peter Bomberg]

Good thread, I am curious on people's thought on the Renderer vs Aurender N20 or Aurender N30SA,and if the Aurender how would you connect them (USB, AES/EBU, Optical), I really want a single app to control selection and volume and I am not sure if this is doable via the ProISL or the ProUSB interfaces.

But to be honest this is the next upgrade, for now the renderer in the Cascade will be my only option.

 

[sunnysideOC]

I have Aurender N20 connected to MSB Select via AES/EBU. I A/B'd against USB using same level cable from the same manufacturer (Synergistic Research SRX), and everyone in the room including my dealer easily agreed that AES/EBU sounded much better - more natural with nice bloom. USB sounded a bit faster but more "digital". When I added BNC cable to clock the N20 with the MSB DAC, the imaging became larger and more holographic. Now Aurender is Roon compatible and I tried, but Conductor app seems more stable to me. I still have a separate preamp in the circuit so I have to use a remote for the volume. I use ProISL between the transport and the DAC.

 

[Nicoben]

I use an MSB Référence, and added a Digital Director a little later, all with the Renderer V2 and the Pro USB Pro ISL pair. My best use of the Renderer has been to put it in the classifieds, including with the Digital Director. The wired connection to the network still poses a quality problem, with the influence of upstream elements, and even with good optimization solutions on the network side, the embedded computer part of the Renderer poses its share of malware in the Digital Director compared with the Pro ISL / Pro USB.

I've also eliminated all IT equipment in the listening room, by installing a fiber optic cable between my dedicated room and my office, so that the Pro USB ends up in my office. To be on the safe side, I use a double USB cable to power the Pro USB with a linear power supply, and the USB signal part is connected to a small Raspberry CM4 Ustars C19 and Paul Hynes linear power supply. A Mac Mini M1 runs Roon on the network, as well as Mininserver so I can use Roon and Jplay IOS with the C19. I've kept an LHY SW6 switch on its isolated ethernet output for the C19, but the influence of the network at this point seems so weak compared to the use of the Renderer V2 that I'm not too keen to look for optimizations on this side.

In the past, I've had an Innuos Zenith MK3 (of no interest other than to muffle playback, and even less so in this type of use, with its unoptimized usb output powered by a computer motherboard, useless upstream of the Pro USB). I've stopped all “server” optimization, as the responsibility for audio results lies with the dac manufacturers, and MSB has done some serious work with the Pro USB / Pro ISL. There may still be a few possible optimizations in this package, but I'm enjoying the music first and foremost without asking myself any questions, since I've adopted what we might call... “rational” optimizations aimed at greater simplicity and less money for the manufacturers of switches, network cables and cobbled-together computers that we call “servers” in order to sell them at a premium....

 

[Arewethereyet]

the embedded computer part of the Renderer poses its share of malware in the Digital Director compared with the Pro ISL / Pro USB.

This is a scary thought. I can’t begin to contemplate the risks involved. The spurious notes that a bored and broke hacker might want to insert into the music is just frightful. Lol.

Kidding aside, it is interesting the differences reported by forum members between the various transport methods available, USB vs AES vs Ethernet.

My hypothesis is that for my system the USB path is negatively impacting the dynamic range either due to my Rose 150b or that USB is an inferior transport method compared to other options such as Ethernet. I don’t know. Or is that taking a component out of the stream the reason music using the Renderer is more full, three dimensional, with impact. With the MSB Renderer, I can feel the pluck of string instruments. The timber is more emotionally engaging. With the Pro ISL, the playback is revealing, very analytical yet unforgiving. The recording has to be exceptional and without compression or else the listening becomes more fatiguing. The Pro ISL is equally good with lateral image separation but without the depth presented playing thru the Renderer. Then again, my implementation of an LHY SW6 Ethernet switch with a linear power supply galvanic isolating signal path and the Network Acoustics Muon Pro Ethernet filter is the difference, notwithstanding the prying eyes of network hackers loping about my DAC.

Of note, I could not tell the difference between the Renderer and the Pro ISL when using an external pre amplifier. But damn, using the MSB Reference as my pre feeding directly into mono amps, the Renderer is the winner.

It’s interesting to read what the Taiko Olympus users are posting comparing the benefits of XDMI vs USB over in the taiko Olympus thread.

I need to audition a very good streamer with a solid USB out and then into the Reference DAC using the Pro ISL module.

When I upgrade to the Cascade later this year, I’m definitely keeping the Renderer module, possibly adding the XDMI module and even the new I2S module. Not sure about the Pro ISL. Maybe better to have and not need. TBD.