How much does an amp contribute to 3D imaging?

[fas42]

I shall be very contrary here, as those who know and love me dearly here, like Tim, are only too aware. Room treatments are one means of making sure that the received sound at the listening position is as disturbed as little by distracting, effectively distorting, additions. Another technique, which is harder, but ultimately more effective and doesn't require the room to be disturbed, is to refine the quality of the sound as at the time it emerges from the speaker drivers. Because, once the sound exits from the speakers any deficiences in the sound at that point have bolted from the stable so to speak, they're in the room, and all you can do now is play with positioning of speakers, listening position, room treatments to minimise the impact of the disturbing artefacts.

Having experienced heavily treated rooms, I don't like them: they feel weird. Much better to improve the sound itself, then your ear will have an easy job separating the musical event from room sounds. My current system is as badly set up in the room as it can possibly be; everything you can do wrong is part of the picture, but that doesn't prevent the imaging, etc, etc, from working.

Frank

 

[RogerD]

I think the speakers and there design are number one. Amplifiers some are better than others. I have run both class A tube and high powered SS amps. I think the tubed unit was a tad better than the current amplifiers. If you want great imaging,I suggest doing your homework on power delivery and EMI/RFI mitigation. You also can look at preamps with lots of headroom,I prefer a tubed unit. Also some esoteric cables can help expand the image,but if your power is clean and the power pulsing through your electroncs with a pathway setup to rid EMI/RFI, the cables could well be not a issue. I have always used my core cables as I have some dollars invested,but if I add any cable now it does not effect anything in the negative.

 

[ironmine]

Room treatments are one means of making sure that the received sound at the listening position is as disturbed as little by distracting, effectively distorting, additions. Another technique, which is harder, but ultimately more effective and doesn't require the room to be disturbed, is to refine the quality of the sound as at the time it emerges from the speaker drivers.

Refining the quality of the sound at the speakers is more effective for making sure that the sound is disturbed as little as possible by room influences??!!... Wow...

 

[fas42]

Refining the quality of the sound at the speakers is more effective for making sure that the sound is disturbed as little as possible by room influences??!!... Wow...

Believe It, or Not ...

This is my shtick here: once experienced, never forgotten. At the risk of bringing the usual crowd in, baying for blood, the point is to reduce the difficulty that the ear/brain has in digesting the sound. If you get that right, the room disappears out of the equation.

And how do you know you've got it right? If you stand somewhere near one of the speakers, left or right, close your eyes or otherwise blindfold yourself, shuffle around a bit so that you lose orientation, and then point to one or other of the speakers. If you can't do this, then you're in pretty good shape.

Now, excuse me, I've just got to sidle off out of the room ...

Frank

 

[Rshatzer]

Unfortunately, this thing (room treatment), which you are scared of, is your ticket to good imaging and staging. In my opinion, room treatment is what separates true audiophiles from audiophile wannabes.

2 years ago, I upgraded from NAD CD-player ($300), NAD integrated amp ($400) to April Music DAC ($700), April Music Pre-Amp ($1000), two Monarchy Audio monoblocks ($1000 each). I can tell you - while the sound did improve, those were mostly improvements in the "quality of sound wall" only, not in the plausibility of the stage. Only after I had built lots of bass traps, SBIR panels, side panels, acoustic clouds and rearranged some furniture in the room, the imaging and staging improved significantly. (Adding the REL sub also helped a lot, by the way, it made the impact of music more physical and emotional). This experience literally redefined my approach to audiophilia. I know now that anybody who talks about cable differences and component changes, BEFORE he addressed (at least tried to) the major acoustic room drawbacks, in reality is just an ignorant man. 3D imaging which you are after, is all about spatial and temporal cues. And these are determined most by the counteraction of your speakers and your room.

You can have the best direct sound signal coming from your most expensive & wonderfully-amplified speakers, with perfect three-dimensiality and holography, but, unfortunately, you'll be able to enjoy it only for the first 10-20 milliseconds Because, 10-20 ms later, this beautiful expensive sound will be mixed with (and mucked by) the wall reflections coming at your ears from all wrong directions and at wrong times, ill-correlated with the direct signal, standing booming bass waves, etc.

So, face the challenge of room treatment as a man! The rewards for you, as an audiophile, will be amazing and enjoyable beyond your current expectations.

Very well spoken, Ironmine and much appreciated. I'm still experimenting. There is only one piece of furniture in my room and that is my listening position. I haven't tried making treatments yet or bought any, but plan to. In the meantime, all I can do is move my LPs and other media and of course temporarily remove the artwork and give things a listen.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Ironmine - first, welcome. Second try not to take Frank seriously; few of us do. He has a penchant for drama - "baying for his blood" - . I don't know how to bay and laugh at the same time. You will find, over time, that it doesn't matter what the subject is, or what the real answer is, Frank has the same answer every time. And he rarely fails to use it. After a while, it just becomes a feature of the board, like the color scheme.

Tim

 

[JackD201]

And don't mind Tim. He hit the ignore button but doesn't actually do any ignoring.

 

[fas42]

I can just feel the love in the room ...

Frank

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

And don't mind Tim. He hit the ignore button but doesn't actually do any ignoring.

Oh, I didn't put Frank on ignore!

Tim

 

[fas42]

Yes, Tim's still teething, and he needs a decent rusk or two to chomp into ...

Frank

 

[JackD201]

Lol!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FrantzM]

Ironmine - first, welcome. Second try not to take Frank seriously; few of us do. He has a penchant for drama - "baying for his blood" - . I don't know how to bay and laugh at the same time. You will find, over time, that it doesn't matter what the subject is, or what the real answer is, Frank has the same answer every time. And he rarely fails to use it. After a while, it just becomes a feature of the board, like the color scheme.

Tim

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Yes, Tim's still teething, and he needs a decent rusk or two to chomp into ...

Frank

I haven't even nipped you in weeks. If you call this bit of reparte "chomping" your skin is far too delicate.

Tim

 

[ironmine]

Ironmine - first, welcome.
Tim

Hi Phelonious Ponk!

I enjoy reading your posts.