God I love tubes....

[Phelonious Ponk]

I've been rehearsing a band for a couple of months now, mostly over at my buddy Joe's house, and using one of the small amps he has around, because it is substantially more trouble to load up an amp than it is to just grab an electric guitar and go. The amp I've been using over there is a small tube Peavey, roughly based on early Fender practice amps. It's a great little amp, but it's not right for me.

Yesterday I put a new speaker (Weber) in my own amp, a Fender Deluxe Reverb (vintage, black face for those who understand such things), and hauled it to practice. This is what's right for me -- the smaller examples of what they call Blackface or Silverface Fender amps, from the 1960s/70s. These amps sound completely different from the tweed cloth-covered Fender amps from the 50s, and it's mostly in their "clean" tones. I'm not technical enough to tell you what the differences are in the circuits, all I know is if you plug a good electric guitar into a Black or Silver-faced Princeton, Deluxe, Vibrolux, Tremolux...you get rewarded with this big, warm, fat, articulate, lush, enveloping sound - HUGE, sweet, beautiful - there have to be more adjectives out there for me somewhere... that can absolutely overwhelm a large domestic living room dialed up to 2 out of 10, and more than hold it's own in a noisy club with a drum kit rumbling right next to it at 5 or 6.

Sadly , my Deluxe, unlike Nigel Tuffnel's Marshall, only goes to 10, not 11.

So I took my Deluxe over to Joe's last night with my new, OCD re-creation of a 50-year-old 12" speaker design - plugged in, and it was good. Very, very good.

So you analog/tube guys? While I may not agree with the way you characterize your passion, I really do understand it. That's all. Have a great Sunday. Listen to great music.

Tim

 

[DaveyF]

Tim, I envy you with that amp..

The blackface and silver face amps from the 60/70's were really something else. Have you plugged into a blackface Super Reverb....it's phenom

How stock is your amp. besides the speaker that is? What happened to the original speaker....surround went to dust or

BTW, the Tweed amps from the 50's can be stunning to play on...I was using a Tweed Princeton Reverb a few months ago. WOW!! it was awesome Wish I could get the owner to sell it to me, but no luck
Playing my Tele. I have to tell you, that Tweed amp was THE DEAL

Oh, one of the things that most techies tell me that contributes greatly to the sound of these amps is the fact that they were all point to point wired, no circuit boards anywhere. Which is why the new re-issues do not get the same sound, even though they use the same basic circuit, they are also utilizing circuit boards. ( Plus, I suspect the quality of the caps and wiring probably has something to do with it also).

 

[RogerD]

Tim, I envy you with that amp..

The blackface and silver face amps from the 60/70's were really something else. Have you plugged into a blackface Super Reverb....it's phenom

How stock is your amp. besides the speaker that is? What happened to the original speaker....surround went to dust or

BTW, the Tweed amps from the 50's can be stunning to play on...I was using a Tweed Princeton Reverb a few months ago. WOW!! it was awesome Wish I could get the owner to sell it to me, but no luck
Playing my Tele. I have to tell you, that Tweed amp was THE DEAL

Oh, one of the things that most techies tell me that contributes greatly to the sound of these amps is the fact that they were all point to point wired, no circuit boards anywhere. Which is why the new re-issues do not get the same sound, even though they use the same basic circuit, they are also utilizing circuit boards. ( Plus, I suspect the quality of the caps and wiring probably has something to do with it also).

I love those old Fender amps and I think the point to point and the type of tubes have a big influence on the magic produced. Tim and Davey you are blessed to play as you do,enjoy.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Tim, I envy you with that amp..

The blackface and silver face amps from the 60/70's were really something else. Have you plugged into a blackface Super Reverb....it's phenom

How stock is your amp. besides the speaker that is? What happened to the original speaker....surround went to dust or

BTW, the Tweed amps from the 50's can be stunning to play on...I was using a Tweed Princeton Reverb a few months ago. WOW!! it was awesome Wish I could get the owner to sell it to me, but no luck
Playing my Tele. I have to tell you, that Tweed amp was THE DEAL

Oh, one of the things that most techies tell me that contributes greatly to the sound of these amps is the fact that they were all point to point wired, no circuit boards anywhere. Which is why the new re-issues do not get the same sound, even though they use the same basic circuit, they are also utilizing circuit boards. ( Plus, I suspect the quality of the caps and wiring probably has something to do with it also).

Perhaps. The new reissues are awfully good, especially with the right speaker and a good set of tubes in them. I also have a Blues Deluxe - a 40-watt retro tweed thing with channel switching, though it switches from really low gain to pretty low gain. It's no Mesa Boogie. It's a great sounding amp, too. One of the other guys in the band is now using it to play his keyboard through when he's using the Hammond B3 sample, to get that great tube overdrive you get from a real Hammond and a Leslie. That, and one of the old Boss CE-2 chorus pedals (I have one of those, too ) and a cheap digital keyboard with a B3 sample sounds pretty amazing.

I actually bought the Weber for another Deluxe I had, one with the rare original Jensen speaker in it, a set of NOS 6v6s and a full set of NOS RCA preamp tubes. I pulled the Jensen, and put in the Weber to keep that old speaker intact. My amps don't sit in climate controlled studios, they go to bars. Anyway, shortly after that I sold that old Deluxe, with the Jensen, when it got to be worth stupid money. The one I'm playing came to me with a heavy, loud Carvin speaker in it. It sounded good enough, but it stayed too clean too loud. I just finally got around to putting the Weber in there yesterday. My current Deluxe isn't exactly like the one in the picture and doesn't have the pedigree of the old one, but it has the same circuit, PTP and all, and I don't worry about gigging with it so much. No need to be terribly jealous, they can be found for decent money. If you're interested, I'll be happy to share the details.

The other guy I play with has a Blackface Super. It's a phenomenon, but you have to be playing sooooo loud to get it cooking that it's really best for rhythm. Or, like Twins, they make great pedal steel amps. The Super stays in storage. He plays a Vibrolux re-issue.

Tim

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I love those old Fender amps and I think the point to point and the type of tubes have a big influence on the magic produced. Tim and Davey you are blessed to play as you do,enjoy.

I don't know how much the wiring being wrapped in cloth instead of silicon contributes to the tone, well-designed circuit board amps can sound really good, but the playing is a blessing. I've been playing with the same 3 guys for more than 20 years. THATS an incredible blessing.

Tim

 

[Ron Party]

Tim, what year was your Deluxe Reverb amp made? I'm sitting here looking at my Deluxe Reverb which I bought in the early 70s, maybe mid 70's at the latest. Mine has the silver face.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Fender went through a strange arc, Ron, in which the Deluxe and the Princeton were left relatively untouched while the big amps were substantially, ahem, "improved". There were the original Blackfaces, like the '65 I sold. Then there were the Silverfaces like yours, which are very sought-after today. Then in the late 70s they added the infamous pull-boost. I had a Princeton with one of these (wish I still had it) -- pull the volume knob and it boosted volume and treble, and sounded awful. Fortunately the circuit was a true bi-pass, so if you didn't pull it everything was fine. Then, in 1980, and just for a couple of years, they went back to the black faceplate and dropped the pull boost. But the important thing for the player is that all through these years the small amps - the Deluxes and Princetons - were left relatively unmolested. Same circuit, point to point wiring, tube rectifier, same fabulous tone. So unsurprisingly, a 1980 Deluxe, and your Silverface, with the right speaker and tubes, will sound every bit as good as my old '65. And your Silverface, by the way, is pretty collectible too.

Knowing all of that, I understood that the utility of the '65 was easily replaced, and it got to be worth so much it either needed to be sold or put in a glass case somewhere. I chose sold, replaced the amp and bought a couple of nice guitars. Wish I had held on to those Visseaux 6v6s though. They were killers. And probably didn't add squat to the price I got for the Deluxe.

Tim

 

[Ron Party]

I know mine is a collectible- I've been offered some relatively serious money for it (and my blues guitar as well) but no sale. My last band was a jazz band, playing the likes of Hancock and Jobim, and that amp simply sounds wonderful.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I know mine is a collectible- I've been offered some relatively serious money for it (and my blues guitar as well) but no sale. My last band was a jazz band, playing the likes of Hancock and Jobim, and that amp simply sounds wonderful.

I'm sure it does. I'm hanging on to mine as well.

Tim

 

[DaveyF]

Just got through a two hour jam session with some friends. Used my EC Strat into a Big Muff Pi then into a Ernie Ball VP Jr Volume pedal then into a Boss RX20-L looper then into my trustworthy Mesa Tremoverb 2 12" combo running Svets and JJ's....Damn if I didn't get Robin Trower's sound down pat( Have to love those pedals )

BTW, have you guys seen the prices of some of the Tweeds these days...not just the TV fronts

 

[fas42]

A couple of days ago I had a chance to recalibrate my ears with live music at a school mini-concert, in a classroom: grand piano, flute, singing. And a pint-sized 11 year giving an Ibanez and Fender Frontroom 65R a decent workout on a classy Jeff Beck piece. Sounded pretty good to me, for a SS unit: for tube men, are these amps pretty low on the pecking order, or are they reasonable enough ...?

Frank

 

[DaveyF]

Frank, like everything these days, your question is pretty relative! To many, including myself, a Frontman 65R is not something we would consider.( Therefore, as you say pretty low on the pecking order) OTOH, for many a beginner....they are more than sufficient and appropriate..as I said it's all relative

 

[c1ferrari]

Tim,

I run ~70 tubes in my stereo rig
Just for fun, I evaluate tubes with an Amplitrex and am looking to characterize them with a curve tracer

Davey -- the demo of the SS-AR1 loudspeaker at Sony was very effective... they were driven by Pass Aleph monoblocks.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

A couple of days ago I had a chance to recalibrate my ears with live music at a school mini-concert, in a classroom: grand piano, flute, singing. And a pint-sized 11 year giving an Ibanez and Fender Frontroom 65R a decent workout on a classy Jeff Beck piece. Sounded pretty good to me, for a SS unit: for tube men, are these amps pretty low on the pecking order, or are they reasonable enough ...?

Frank

Frontman. It can probably do a reasonable imitation of a good tube combo amp's tone from the audience perspective...it will never quite get there, but a reasonable imitation, maybe. But the playing experience will not even get in the same ballpark.

Tim

 

[mep]

Tim-What 6V6 tubes are you using now?

 

[fas42]

Frontman. It can probably do a reasonable imitation of a good tube combo amp's tone from the audience perspective...it will never quite get there, but a reasonable imitation, maybe. But the playing experience will not even get in the same ballpark.

Tim

Sorry about the name, had it right, but mistyped it! On a quick look around, it seems to be all about the overdrive characteristics when doing anything but clean tone, something very hard for transistors to make sound pleasing to the player ...

Frank

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Sorry about the name, had it right, but mistyped it! On a quick look around, it seems to be all about the overdrive characteristics when doing anything but clean tone, something very hard for transistors to make sound pleasing to the player ...

Frank

Nah. Clean tone is different too.

Tim

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Tim-What 6V6 tubes are you using now?

Whatever was in there when I bought it, Mark. I acquired this amp, then the band stopped playing, and we're just starting up again now, so I haven't been paying attention to such things to be honest. Besides that, it sounds really good, and I'm a bit superstitious about guitar amps and not inclined to mess with the force.

Tim

 

[DaveyF]

I run ~70 tubes in my stereo rig
Just for fun, I evaluate tubes with an Amplitrex and am looking to characterize them with a curve tracer

Davey -- the demo of the SS-AR1 loudspeaker at Sony was very effective... they were driven by Pass Aleph monoblocks.

Sam, thanks for the update. I wasn't able to make the meeting today..

I did hear the Sony's at Newport, they were good but I really had to question the price

 

[c1ferrari]

Sam, thanks for the update. I wasn't able to make the meeting today..

I did hear the Sony's at Newport, they were good but I really had to question the price

Indeed.
FWIW, I thought the SS-AR1 demmed better at Sony, with my own media, than at THE Show -- again, referencing my own media.
Some interesting people in attendance...perhaps, I was able to network with some folks.