Audiophiles mostly aren’t music fans

[Folsom]

I don't think B&W is a great example with their very liberal tunings.

If you move from the exact spot of the microphone the alignment is gone, so how are you hearing improvements then?

 

[tima]

I was saying that we heard what I later learned was a fact about the midrange. I was also responding to your putting Wilson in the same sentence as Vandesteen wrt. time coherence.

After spending a long time with full-range stats and other time coherent speakers I am sensitive to hearing disparate drivers not blending perfectly. I have heard some demos that have also convinced me of the improvement that can be had from making a speaker coherent; both at shows/showrooms and at home (with digital alignment).

Wilson can use whatever blah blah they want...it doesn’t make their speakers time coherent (or coincident as you might also see it called). For that matter Tannnoys are not either despite being physically coincident.

Okay. Though I never put "Wilson in the same sentence as Vandesteen wrt. time coherence." Maybe you were thinking of someone else.

Wilson doesn't talk much in terms of time or phase coherence; as I mentioned, they talk about time synchronicity or the time alignment of drivers. To quote Dave Wilson from a 2016 interview in Stereophile:

"It's about time; it's all about time. Flat frequency response, low distortion, extended bandwidth, and accurate timing synchronicity are equally important. It's nice if you have phase coherence, but it is not necessary. What I'm interested in is the synchronicity of the leading edge of each note. If you were to look at what 10 microseconds is on our measuring scale, you'll see that our adjustable driver positioning dissects that line. We are truly splitting hairs."

"Most audiophiles would think that the perfect speaker for this type of thing would be a single diaphragm electrostatic, with no crossover,. "But research shows that a 1.5m-high dipole electrostat, with a single driver positioned 5m away from the listener and with the listener's ear at half the speaker height, will have a temporal spread of 650 microseconds. That is completely unacceptable, but it's what people are accustomed to thinking is good time coherence."

Brad, I'm not questioning what you hear. Statements about inverted drivers and absence of time coherence are brought frequently to threads about Wilson speakers. Labeling Wilson's own description of what they do as 'blah-blah' is familiar. I can appreciate that you've heard others speakers that you like. Wilson acknowledges their speakers are not for everyone. We make our choices; maybe we leave it there. Thanks.

 

[morricab]

Okay. Though I never put "Wilson in the same sentence as Vandesteen wrt. time coherence." Maybe you were thinking of someone else.

Wilson doesn't talk much in terms of time or phase coherence; as I mentioned, they talk about time synchronicity or the time alignment of drivers. To quote Dave Wilson from a 2016 interview in Stereophile:

"It's about time; it's all about time. Flat frequency response, low distortion, extended bandwidth, and accurate timing synchronicity are equally important. It's nice if you have phase coherence, but it is not necessary. What I'm interested in is the synchronicity of the leading edge of each note. If you were to look at what 10 microseconds is on our measuring scale, you'll see that our adjustable driver positioning dissects that line. We are truly splitting hairs."

"Most audiophiles would think that the perfect speaker for this type of thing would be a single diaphragm electrostatic, with no crossover,. "But research shows that a 1.5m-high dipole electrostat, with a single driver positioned 5m away from the listener and with the listener's ear at half the speaker height, will have a temporal spread of 650 microseconds. That is completely unacceptable, but it's what people are accustomed to thinking is good time coherence."

Brad, I'm not questioning what you hear. Statements about inverted drivers and absence of time coherence are brought frequently to threads about Wilson speakers. Labeling Wilson's own description of what they do as 'blah-blah' is familiar. I can appreciate that you've heard others speakers that you like. Wilson acknowledges their speakers are not for everyone. We make our choices; maybe we leave it there. Thanks.

I will leave it with the measurements, which simply demonstrate that Wilson speakers are not time coherent...a statement to the contrary doesn’t change the data.

 

[assessor43]

I cannot remember hearing a well set up single ended triode system make anything sound bad.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

Although I can identify that people pay attention to different aspects of music experience, in my opinion sound and music are inherently intertwined and ultimately we are a bit of both, musicphiles and gear heads. I do not see why we would have to identify ourselves with one of them exclusively. There is enough space in each grouping for all of us. I assume that even if you 'appreciate things like sound stage, frequency extremes, PRaT, venue acoustics, recorded detail, system integration, musicality, naturalness, dynamics, silence between notes, air around instruments, tonal colour' your primary reference point is music, not empty sounds of traffic jam or goats making noises. Therefore, it is hard to be a gear head in a vacuum without paying attention to particular aspects of music per se such as 'the composition, the beautiful timing, the interplay of instruments, the note shaping of great musicians....while gear heads listen to and appreciate things like sound stage, frequency extremes, PRaT, venue acoustics, recorded detail, system integration, musicality, naturalness, dynamics, silence between notes, air around instruments, tonal colour etc'.

 

[RogerD]

It’s hard not to be a gear slut when a system sounds good and looks cool....no shame,no regrets.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

the beauty glows Like a proud wolf alone in the dark with eyes that watch the world

 

[Alexlife]

I can't say I'm not a music fan, but I'm an audiophile for sure. But my daughter is a music fan, I understood that when she was listening instrumental music all the time and one day she asked me to buy her a saxophone (instead of any toys, clothes of phones and etc.). I was happy, because she is a child of music. I've bought a YAMAHA saxophone, I don't remember which model, but I think YAMAHA YAS-280, anyway, the main thing is she is an audiophile and a music fan at the same time and it's possible.

 

[assessor43]

"Audiophiles are in love with sound. Music fans are in love with music."

I simply can't agree from my own experience. I happen to love both and see no conflicts in doing so.

"I was so disappointed. I am selling all the new high end stuff and going right back with my old set up. A setup that makes 95% of my albums just kick ass. The high end stuff made like 15% of my collection listenable."

Sorry to hear that. Good luck down the road.

Rob

Get some nice McIntosh stuff. preferably MC240, MC275, MC60, MC75, MC30, MC225. You will listen to lots of records. Get a nice CAT audio preamp. Hook it up to the Advents. Not all HiFi is analytical. Try some nice Horn Louspeakers. Maybe some Klipsch or Devore. Or if you really want to get adventurous, get shindo or other Single ended triode amplifiers. You may rethink your earlier conclusion.

 

[Nemal1]

I have my system to play music on. upgrading your equipment should be with the intention of better appreciation of the music which I thought Hi-Fi systems are supposed to do?

 

[infinitely baffled]

Agreed. It just blew me away how crappy most stuff sounds as you increase gear quality. Then you are chasing a sound aesthetic. Not musical one

Youre doing it wrong. Oh, and ps, the gear you listed isn't 'high end'