My previous, cheap, hmdi audio extractor did not pass HDR10 or 4:2:2, but Vanity pro does, so there was an improvement in the video. However, in my system, the Kaleidescape video is better.
AppleTV X - I am playing with something new
- Thread starter Xymox
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I have a 7.4.1 Dolby Atmos system. My APPLETV X is connected to my Anthem MRX 1140 receiver processor. I’m using an Epson 6030UB 1080p projector. The improvement in picture and sound quality is outstanding. Everything is equal to or BETTER than Blu-Ray. (The diffusion panel is taken down for movie viewing).
Interesting.. We have posts here who did extensive AB with a Oppo, Kscape and ATVX. I myself have all three. I find that the ATVX is a equal for most things. I have a lot of clients with kscape and they now regreat the substantial investment.
Are you using SDR ? What display are you using again ? Sony OLED ? A projector of course is limited in CR and has issues that are optical so its hard to see the full performance of the source platforms. A Sony A90K beats the heck out of a Sony 380 proj for example.
Compression for video will only make a difference on high complexity pictures in motion. No motion, nearly no bit rate. Sound wise I find the vastly dejittered ATVX better then the Kscape hardware. What I hear are differences in transfers. For example, Starwars on Disney+ appears to be a newer trasnfer then stuff on Kscape. For me, because the Apple platform has, well, everything and its all really close, sometimes better, I end up just using the ATVX. Every app, every TV series, every movie, plays local server stuff.
What is your single path ? What surround processor ? Trinnov ? Datasat ? Those are the units I have the most experence with. The RS20i is the most revealing.
How is the ATVX hooked up ? Ethernet cable ? Power cord ?
Yes, extraction is annoying..
In my lab area, I use my insanely modded Oppo to get SPDIF that i feed to my modded Levinson 40.. But the 40 is limited in formats. However it sounds way better then any new stuff like Datasat or Trinnov. This provides a good way to evaul sound. Then the room above is also good for ABC work..
I love your LED clock. I am a big fan of vintage. I have a Bell System 2500 phone fully working for example.
I use this daily.. I love it.. MUCH better then a cell phone.. Annoying to dial, but, I like a slower pace..
And of course the system that supplies is it all modded for sound quality. I admit tho, a carbon mic has limitations, hahaha.. I modded the #$%$# out of a Ooma Buis system..
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Special line.. He rings a special wall mounted ringer..
If your gonna go dial,, a red 564 is best.. With a new mic.. I have yet to get a hard core 551B KSU to go with it. damn things are PRICEY .. i also have a single line 500 , a 2500 aand a red multiline touch tone 2565... but to me the network 9 electronics 0 in the 500isoun s better then the 2500 era..
When you say “ATVX is equal for most things”, what sources are you comparing? It seems like most sources that are being fed the ATVX are compressed video and lossy audio. Even if the ATVX was an equal unit (and I am not doubting it), I don’t see how the sound could be equal if it was lossy audio while the Kscape is sending lossless audio.
Maybe you can explain.
I have been cranking out ATVXs this week. There was a spike in demand. I get those. Someplace online someone mentions it and web site stats suddenly go way up and so do sales. I needed to make 6 systems and got them done in 3 days. 2 day is my limit.
But while doing this work I usally queue up music in the lab area. The ATVX > Oppo > SPDIF > Levinson 40 > 2 ch > modded amps, custom speakers.
I discovered something. SIrrus/XM has a ATV app ! hahahaha.. And crazy as it sounds, it can sound pretty good. Not Tidal, but surprizing.. The scary part is I have made 6 ATVX system listening to YACHT MUSIC. Ch 17.. OMG.. Hahahaha.. I love Yacht Music..
Hahahaha.. Im not right...
A shot of the bench yesterday while I was blasting Yacht Music.. Hahaha..
Here I am pulling 40 AMPS at 16V thru the wires and cap network. I admit to believing in some alchemy and I like to think this aligns all the crystal lattice structure in a new wires and solder and all that. I use a lot of silver wire and I swear doing this preconditioning makes it sound and look better..
Another area of the lab showing the phones.. Also there is a lot of other fun stuff in this shot..
But while doing this work I usally queue up music in the lab area. The ATVX > Oppo > SPDIF > Levinson 40 > 2 ch > modded amps, custom speakers.
I discovered something. SIrrus/XM has a ATV app ! hahahaha.. And crazy as it sounds, it can sound pretty good. Not Tidal, but surprizing.. The scary part is I have made 6 ATVX system listening to YACHT MUSIC. Ch 17.. OMG.. Hahahaha.. I love Yacht Music..
Hahahaha.. Im not right...
A shot of the bench yesterday while I was blasting Yacht Music.. Hahaha..
Here I am pulling 40 AMPS at 16V thru the wires and cap network. I admit to believing in some alchemy and I like to think this aligns all the crystal lattice structure in a new wires and solder and all that. I use a lot of silver wire and I swear doing this preconditioning makes it sound and look better..
Another area of the lab showing the phones.. Also there is a lot of other fun stuff in this shot..
I can...
You see HDMI is $%#$... So when your viewing these less compressed sources you viewing thru a haze of nasty HDMI.. ALSO it turns out that clocking for the CPU & Busses & RAM & Ethernet controller & HDMI chip matters. So when you clock all that stuff way better with a much lower phase noise clock - for everything - and you clean up the voltage rails feeding all these things you end up with a beyond lab grade HDMI.
This is so much of a difference that bit rate and compression is less important. The picture and sound are so clean the bit rate is not as important..
Now the ATVX can play local files off a server. I have post production files with insane video and audio bit rates. I can play 650 Mbps video/sound. SURE these look better, but really only when things are in motion.
My SMPTE friends are as shocked as you to discover bitrate is not the restraining factor to pic quality. You gotta remember I am a SMPTE / SPIE/AES memeber. I DO have a background that is very science based.
HDMI chips in ALL gear are done to whats called a reference design given to mfgrs from the chip makers. The chip makers copy paste this design. This "reference" design is the least cost implementation that works. It is NOT, in ANY WAY, the best way to do it. So I came along and maxed out the HDMI stuff. This made a HUGE difference. Surprized me and my other SMPTE friends and so I decided to bring this product into the world because its kinda mind bending if your really technical and understand HDMI because it should not look way better. But. It does..
So.. Its easy to explain why my ATVX can look/sound way better then things like kscape and oppo. Its HDMI output is way better and so is the entire decoding and processing engine.
I understand you questioning this. Its a great question.
Oops.. I did not mention what sources I have..
A insanely modded Oppo. Complete with dual rubidium clocks ( servo & HDMI ) Just crazy amounts of mods. WAY beyond anything I have seen anywhere.
A have a Roku Ultra modded and stock.
A Nvidia Shield - modded and stock.
A Minimal Kscape Strato C, a modded one and a stock unit.
Lets see,, I have some other source gear I have played with,, umm,, I forget now..
I use the system above for projection and sound. BUT. for picture and sound I really use a highly modded A90K and a Insanely modded Panasonic Plasma ST60. The plasma has no real video processing so I can see the real picture. I prefer to use my 2ch sound setup in the lab for doing AB because the Levinson 40 with all the mods is so much better then a Datasat rs20i. But I do do ABC stuff in a number of enviroments.
I also have my room clients. Remeber I do insane rooms as my day job. So I also listen to them and I also have beta clients I have developed in the last 3 years who do ABC kinda work and report back.
I also now have high profile reviewers I hear from.
So I based my view of "equal or better" on a number of devices, enviroments and also other people. Including people in this thread who have done ABC work with Oppo, Kscape and ATVX..
I am also a dealer for some video processor devcies that are well known. But I do not use video processing as I think it does not help the picture. I prefer to do minimal processing. Just my wierd view tho. I admit video processing can be good for some displays.
You can see the ATVX and its power supply in this shot. Its the black box with the red light that is sitting kinda sideways because I move it around alot between places.
Oh yea. A highly modded Directv as a source too. But that is junk... DirecTV is best done on the ATVX with the DIrecTV Stream app.
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Hi,
I am using HDR10.
My projector is a Dreamvision EOS Signature L 2023 (a modded JVC NZ9).
Fiber Cable -> fiber cable modem -> Taiko Router -> Appletv X -> VanityPro -> projector and DAC
My system is here:
VPN's System - Totaldac, CH Precision, Taiko, Dunlavy | Virtual Listening Room
vn101606's listening room featuring Taiko Router, Switch, and DC power distributor , Taiko Extreme 8TB with USB card, Intona Ultimate 1.5m USB cable, Totaldac Sublime Reclocker, Transparent Reference XL AES-EBU cable, Echole Limited Edition AES-EBU Model 2 interconnects, Totaldac Sublime DAC...
www.audiogon.com
In my system the audio is clearly better with Kaleidescape because it is uncompressed. The video is a bit better with Kaleidescape. However, both video and audio are excellent with Appletv X + Vanitypro
Cheers.
So.. my ABC
Insanely modded Oppo VS ATVX.. My oppo has all the same HDMI and clocking tricks I do on the ATVX. I think the Oppo does produce better video at times, depending on which titles and mastering. Sound wise, ATVX wins.. Even with the same kind of mods I did on the ATVX.
Roku,,, please,,, this is junk...
Nvidia, its for gamers, hehehe.. It can be good but its electronics are noisy and sloppy and for me this is visible and audible.
Kscape.. This board is HUGE with power regulators distant from the chips. This is a terrible design. The Nvida is better design. Having short traces is key to getting low impeadance for power rails to chips and this makes for less noise to the chips and better quality output busses and waveforms. IE less jitter. So the kscape hardware really fails in these areas. Sorry, it just does. I cant even mod it much because of these long power supply traces. If it was made better then it could do way better. I lIKE the higher bitrate files. BUT this all gets washed out in hardware. Almsot every single time the kscape pretty much produces a ho hum picture and lifeless sound. The ATVX produces OMG, on nearly everything. So the ksacpe FOR ME was wasted money. Also, kscape is expensive.
BUT.. I am NOT normal.. So I dont use my own opnions. The above is my raw view of the sources.
Not to mention the ATV is a Apple platform. So its apps just do circles around other sources. Screen sharing phone pics via the ATVX is impressive pic quality for example. For post production it has frames.io and does crazy high bit rates.
Why would I use another platform ? FOR ME, its close enough to these other sources, I have no need to fool with them.
IMHO...
Insanely modded Oppo VS ATVX.. My oppo has all the same HDMI and clocking tricks I do on the ATVX. I think the Oppo does produce better video at times, depending on which titles and mastering. Sound wise, ATVX wins.. Even with the same kind of mods I did on the ATVX.
Roku,,, please,,, this is junk...
Nvidia, its for gamers, hehehe.. It can be good but its electronics are noisy and sloppy and for me this is visible and audible.
Kscape.. This board is HUGE with power regulators distant from the chips. This is a terrible design. The Nvida is better design. Having short traces is key to getting low impeadance for power rails to chips and this makes for less noise to the chips and better quality output busses and waveforms. IE less jitter. So the kscape hardware really fails in these areas. Sorry, it just does. I cant even mod it much because of these long power supply traces. If it was made better then it could do way better. I lIKE the higher bitrate files. BUT this all gets washed out in hardware. Almsot every single time the kscape pretty much produces a ho hum picture and lifeless sound. The ATVX produces OMG, on nearly everything. So the ksacpe FOR ME was wasted money. Also, kscape is expensive.
BUT.. I am NOT normal.. So I dont use my own opnions. The above is my raw view of the sources.
Not to mention the ATV is a Apple platform. So its apps just do circles around other sources. Screen sharing phone pics via the ATVX is impressive pic quality for example. For post production it has frames.io and does crazy high bit rates.
Why would I use another platform ? FOR ME, its close enough to these other sources, I have no need to fool with them.
IMHO...
I am very happy with my purchase of the Appletv X, and I recommend it to everyone. I may purchase a second one for my bedroom.
I am just describing what I hear and see in my system. Cheers
Hi,
I am using HDR10.
My projector is a Dreamvision EOS Signature L 2023 (a modded JVC NZ9).
Fiber Cable -> fiber cable modem -> Taiko Router -> Appletv X -> VanityPro -> projector and DAC
My system is here:
VPN's System - Totaldac, CH Precision, Taiko, Dunlavy | Virtual Listening Room
vn101606's listening room featuring Taiko Router, Switch, and DC power distributor , Taiko Extreme 8TB with USB card, Intona Ultimate 1.5m USB cable, Totaldac Sublime Reclocker, Transparent Reference XL AES-EBU cable, Echole Limited Edition AES-EBU Model 2 interconnects, Totaldac Sublime DAC...
In my system the audio is clearly better with Kaleidescape because it is uncompressed. The video is a bit better with Kaleidescape. However, both video and audio are excellent with Appletv X + Vanitypro
Cheers.
Ah... Your using HDR..
HDR requires "a contrast ratio of at least 20,000:1" or "a contrast ratio of at least 1,080,000:1"
What is your measured CR off the screen ?
Have you tried 4K SDR on the ATVX ?
I know its difficult to do SDR on the kscape. I would try a AB with the ATVX on 4K SDR and the kscape doing HDR. Make sure the SDR is setup right.
I like the JVC
I had a Switch X Client call me and ask a technical question. He had the Switch X hooked directly to a Arris S33 modem and then to his audio gear. It was a mistake, he forgot here needed a router for the rest of the house. BUT his hook up was pretty hardcore and direct. Just the Switch X ( which does NAT so works like a router ) and his high end audio gear.
I got him straighen out getting his house router after the S33 and before the Switch X.
BUT.. He reported a drop in audio quality for his streaming.
Interesting...
Of course having a dedicated modem JUST for audio is expensive as it requires a 2nd account from the cable or fiber company. In fact Comcast wont do it at all in one house. But his experence got my attention because he described a clear difference in audio quality.
So here at my place I have AT&T fiber and I have Comcast. So I have a S33 modem AND I have a FTTH fiber modem. I feed my lab with the Fiber. In fact it hooks to my own Switch X and the Switch X feeds my computer and my ATVX..
So I just did a AB... I hooked my Switch X to the house network that is powered by Comcast and a $3000 Mikrotik router. Then moved back to a direct connection with just the fiber modem.. INDEED the pic/sound did improve !.. I just flipped back and forth with and without a router in-between and YEP direct is better.
SO... While its kinda crazy, a 2nd account and a modem dedicated to your audio / ATVX is a better way to go..
I found this interesting because its pretty much impossible to explain technically.
SO.. Watch what all is in-line in your network between the outside world and the ATVX apparently it DOES matter.
I got him straighen out getting his house router after the S33 and before the Switch X.
BUT.. He reported a drop in audio quality for his streaming.
Interesting...
Of course having a dedicated modem JUST for audio is expensive as it requires a 2nd account from the cable or fiber company. In fact Comcast wont do it at all in one house. But his experence got my attention because he described a clear difference in audio quality.
So here at my place I have AT&T fiber and I have Comcast. So I have a S33 modem AND I have a FTTH fiber modem. I feed my lab with the Fiber. In fact it hooks to my own Switch X and the Switch X feeds my computer and my ATVX..
So I just did a AB... I hooked my Switch X to the house network that is powered by Comcast and a $3000 Mikrotik router. Then moved back to a direct connection with just the fiber modem.. INDEED the pic/sound did improve !.. I just flipped back and forth with and without a router in-between and YEP direct is better.
SO... While its kinda crazy, a 2nd account and a modem dedicated to your audio / ATVX is a better way to go..
I found this interesting because its pretty much impossible to explain technically.
SO.. Watch what all is in-line in your network between the outside world and the ATVX apparently it DOES matter.
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