Apple's Old iPhone, The iPhone 4S, Outsells Samsung's Top Of The Line Galaxy S3

[amirm]

you can use Chrome with the iPhone and iPad as well as Safari which is the default browser.

I can because Apple allows them to exist in its ecosystem. It can just as well choose to disallow them. Here is an example from a couple of years back: http://www.apple.com/hotnews/apple-answers-fcc-questions/

"Question 1. Why did Apple reject the Google Voice application for iPhone and remove related third-party applications from its App Store? In addition to Google Voice, which related third-party applications were removed or have been rejected? Please provide the specific name of each application and the contact information for the developer.

Contrary to published reports, Apple has not rejected the Google Voice application, and continues to study it. The application has not been approved because, as submitted for review, it appears to alter the iPhone’s distinctive user experience by replacing the iPhone’s core mobile telephone functionality and Apple user interface with its own user interface for telephone calls, text messaging and voicemail. Apple spent a lot of time and effort developing this distinct and innovative way to seamlessly deliver core functionality of the iPhone. For example, on an iPhone, the “Phone” icon that is always shown at the bottom of the Home Screen launches Apple’s mobile telephone application, providing access to Favorites, Recents, Contacts, a Keypad, and Visual Voicemail. The Google Voice application replaces Apple’s Visual Voicemail by routing calls through a separate Google Voice telephone number that stores any voicemail, preventing voicemail from being stored on the iPhone, i.e., disabling Apple’s Visual Voicemail. Similarly, SMS text messages are managed through the Google hub—replacing the iPhone’s text messaging feature. In addition, the iPhone user’s entire Contacts database is transferred to Google’s servers, and we have yet to obtain any assurances from Google that this data will only be used in appropriate ways. These factors present several new issues and questions to us that we are still pondering at this time."

You can download apps that modify every behavior of Windows. There is no policeman like above stopping you. To wit, there is an app that gives you the Start button back in Windows 8.

More examples: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_of_iOS_apps

"Applicants have been denied apps for fundamentally duplicating Apple apps, for example by providing an email interface with no added functionality or use,[8] or having the same elements as the built in SMS app.[9] Applications have also been rejected for duplicating the functionality of iTunes.[10] Applications may be rejected if they are of only "limited utility".[11] Some reports indicate that toolbars must be placed at the bottom of the screen, and the vibration function should only be used for alerts.[12]"

During the last few years I have had this professionally impact me in dealings with ideas of new start ups that we could not create because we knew it would require Apple's approval and they would not give it.

Apple has become more flexible over the years but still has a stronghold on its users. One example is their requirement for 30% cut to go to them for any in-app purchases. Such a measure completely disables the ability of anyone for example to sell you movies and music as neither has that kind of margin in digital world. Yet apple can do it since it doesn't have to pay such high mark-up.

Sadly others then copy them so the impact is much larger on us as we move to mobile world. We are losing freedom we take for granted in open PC/Internet world.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Take a beating? Windows didn't become popular because no one was satisfied or loyal. It got there because it had those qualities. To wit, there was no riots in the street asking for IE and WMP to get unbundled from Windows. But government took that position anyway persumably to serve the consumers. In the case of Apple, the "crime" is worse. In Windows, I can easily install competing browsers. Microsoft never had a say in that. With apple controlling the app ecosystem, they get to have a say. In some sense then it would have been good for Android to have had its success later so that the government could go after Apple to fix that. Right when I thought that would happen, Android share jumped up and we no longer have that option.

So no, I don't think there is satisfaction and enthusiasm there when Apple does things unilaterally like change the mapping function from Google to its own....

Google is your friend. If you really think there is any reason to research and compare customer loyalty to Apple vs. Windows, go for it. I think it's a waste of energy because the answer is obvious. Just ask the Windows camp about the Apple devotees, the Jobs cult, the Kool-aid drinking fashionistas eagerly accepting lower technology, higher prices and the grievous limitations of the "closed system" just to sit at the cool kids table. Your own side knows it and is incredibly annoyed by it.

I know you've seen it. You know that even the Windows fans know where the passion is. Windows became excepted, begrudgingly by many, because it was the defacto standard and unavoidable in the business environment. And for a long time you couldn't bring work home and do it on an Apple at all. Apple became cultishly popular swimming against the current -- proprietary systems, hardware, even, for a long time. Incompatibility with 90% of the computers on the planet, probably 99% of them in business. Incompatibility with the overwhelming majority of the software available. And they just kept doing it. Dropping the floppy drive, pushing big, expensive hi-res screens, creating small, fast ports that required the 3rd party hardware manufacturers to adapt to them. In spite of all of those obstacles, they managed to build in incredibly devoted consumer following. Are you really going to try to make the argument that Windows is more "pro-consumer?" I'd say ask the consumers. Most Windows consumers yawn. Most Apple users will take time to tell you how much they love using their systems. If you're doing something to inspire that kind of loyalty, that's pro consumer.

Tim

 

[amirm]

Are you really going to try to make the argument that Windows is more "pro-consumer?" I'd say ask the consumers.

OK, I will just ask you. If you have a Windows app and you buy something in it, does 30% go to Microsoft as happens if I bought something on iPhone?

Most Windows consumers yawn. Most Apple users will take time to tell you how much they love using their systems. If you're doing something to inspire that kind of loyalty, that's pro consumer.

Tim

The people in the Matrix love the Matrix too . That doesn't read on whether a walled garden has been created that has consequences. We are so blessed to have Android as an alternative. Without it and the government not taking action, who knows how bad the Apple mobile world would have become.

I think you are so passionate about Apple that you are not reading what I am writing Tim. I am not talking about Apple vs Microsoft. I am talking about the restricted world that Apple created for mobile operating system and apps. People like you were so in love with Apple that you did not even notice how some of your liberties with your computing device was taken away. And because there are so many others like you, Apple feels validated in this regard and won't change. If the government decided to give you free ice cream and then tax you 30% more per year, you would cry uncle. But Apple gives you ice cream and you don't even blink or acknowledge that they anointed themselves to be the ruler who taxes 30% of ALL app sales on their platform! And that's not all. They get to decide if they like the app that someone writes. If they don't well, it doesn't get distributed. There is a reason people talk about "jail breaking" an iPhone. It is a jail no matter how many flowers are on the wall.

For me, this is my field of knowledge Tim. I am not governed by emotions as emotions don't pay my mortgage . So please don't assume I say these things before I once worked for Microsoft. I say it because it is the situation at hand.

 

[opus111]

Most Apple users will take time to tell you how much they love using their systems. If you're doing something to inspire that kind of loyalty, that's pro consumer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

 

[Keith_W]

I will give this to Apple - they create beautiful devices which are virtually idiot proof. On a superficial level, it is hard not to fall in love with an Apple product - it is shiny, well built, elegant, and has a bauhaus-like simplicity. I myself have owned Apple products, and the experience of being an Apple customer I must say was very good. Back when Microsoft was all-powerful and acting like an evil empire, gobbling up the desktop market, then the server market, then the office market, then the browser market, then smartphone market, it was easy to make an argument to buy an Apple. It was the anti-Microsoft, the small, struggling competitor who bullied nobody.

But all that has changed, and it has decisively turned me against Apple. Apple makes Microsoft look like choirboys by comparison. There are too many instances of Apple evildoing for me to list here, but a quick sample:

- it is the most litigation happy of all major corporations, and it sues for the tiniest minutae. See the Woolworths logo fiasco earlier in this thread.
- no other software company or ecosystem demands a 30% cut of everything it sells (see Amir's post)
- it is anti-competitive and monopolistic in nature
- it rewards the loyalty of its fanboys by fleecing them shamelessly with the highest margins and the most cynical methods (see lightning connector)

I still admire Apple products, but I can not look at an Apple product these days and not be filled with revulsion for all that it stands for.

 

[asiufy]

Amir,

There's a world of difference between shutting competitors out of a hardware platform that isn't your own (which Microsoft did in partnership with Intel), and exerting control over what kind of SOFTWARE runs on your fully closed, tied together, hardware/software combination, which was proprietary from the start.

Microsoft first obtained an illegal monopoly on operating systems, then went ahead and tried to extend that to web browsers, by bundling in.

The PC was an open platform, by Microsoft's own admission. Then how come it did all it could (some of it illegal) to keep it tied to its own OS?
It'd be like Google partnering with HTC, ZTE, Huawei, etc and not allowing them to build Windows Mobile phones, with their hardware designs. It's just what MS did with IBM, Dell, HP, etc. back then.

Apple's was never an open platform, from the word go. If people are buying it, they KNOW they'll have someone "taking care" of it for them. That bothers some people, understandably, while for others, it's a major plus. So much so that, in spite of this all the closeness and gatekeeping, Apple leads in the portable segment.

Microsoft learned that, and it's becoming more like Apple. They *DO* take their cut, not 30%, more like 25%, on Windows apps for Windows RT. BTW you won't be able to install anything on Windows RT that's not from the Windows App Store, just like you-know-who. And of course, Microsoft is now manufacturing its own hardware designs, in order to provide what Apple has been providing for years, which is a complete, closed, end-to-end product, hardware/software, and we have the success of the XBox, one such end-to-end product, to thank for that as well.

I think Amir's commentary seems more like sour grapes, as Apple's (arbitrary) rules won't allow him to build certain startups. I've suffered from that too, as I develop apps for all platforms, and for some kinds of apps we just skip the iOS altogether, as it's either not worth bothering trying to get approval from Apple, or we know for sure we won't get it.


alexandre

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

OK, I will just ask you. If you have a Windows app and you buy something in it, does 30% go to Microsoft as happens if I bought something on iPhone?


The people in the Matrix love the Matrix too . That doesn't read on whether a walled garden has been created that has consequences. We are so blessed to have Android as an alternative. Without it and the government not taking action, who knows how bad the Apple mobile world would have become.

I think you are so passionate about Apple that you are not reading what I am writing Tim. I am not talking about Apple vs Microsoft. I am talking about the restricted world that Apple created for mobile operating system and apps. People like you were so in love with Apple that you did not even notice how some of your liberties with your computing device was taken away. And because there are so many others like you, Apple feels validated in this regard and won't change. If the government decided to give you free ice cream and then tax you 30% more per year, you would cry uncle. But Apple gives you ice cream and you don't even blink or acknowledge that they anointed themselves to be the ruler who taxes 30% of ALL app sales on their platform! And that's not all. They get to decide if they like the app that someone writes. If they don't well, it doesn't get distributed. There is a reason people talk about "jail breaking" an iPhone. It is a jail no matter how many flowers are on the wall.

For me, this is my field of knowledge Tim. I am not governed by emotions as emotions don't pay my mortgage . So please don't assume I say these things before I once worked for Microsoft. I say it because it is the situation at hand.

First bold: Nobody cares but the business analyst. The consumer, who is who we were talking about, only cares about what they get for their money.

Second bold: Again, we're talking about the consumer, and she is governed by the experience. Or emotions, if you prefer. The emotion of "that's cool!" instead of the one of "#$@^%&!"

And the customer experience is the reason why we love it in the Matrix. We aren't concerned with how the margins are divided except to occasionally note that Apple created that customer experience, at no small risk, and they deserve a bigger chunk of the profits. 30%? 40%? As in high end, it's worth what someone will pay for it.

Tim

PS: And I've got to add that anyone complaining about high margins, here, is the epitome of irony. At least when you pay high margins for Apple products you get a margin in performance (the user interface, the user experience) that anyone can perceive. In the high end? Most of that margin of performance/experience is lost on all but the initiated. The Matrix? We're in the matrix.

 

[Keith_W]

First bold: Nobody cares but the business analyst. The consumer, who is who we were talking about, only cares about what they get for their money.

You don't get much for your money. Apple's margins are somewhere close to 45%, much higher than any other manufacturer. How can they afford to charge a margin of 45%? Simple - because their legions of mindless fanboys will religiously buy whatever overpriced gadget Apple decides to sell. Most other manufacturers have a margin of 10% or so. Apple fanboys must be the only people who proudly boast that they pay 35% over and above what they would have paid if Apple priced its products sensibly.

You are well known here for arguing against overpriced cables. How are you enjoying your lightning connector, Tim?

 

[audioguy]

You are well known here for arguing against overpriced cables. How are you enjoying your lightning connector, Tim?

I'm not Tim but comparing a $30 connector to a $3000 per foot piece of cable is more than a stretch, don't you think?

I was an early Apple fan and ran an IT shop in a large bank. I wanted to get Apple products into the bank but had only minor success since, as has been pointed out, they were close to impossible to integrate into our other systems ---- so we used a few for specialty applications. In my next company, I tried again but finally just gave up. Fast forward to today and that is no longer the case. Apple stayed the course and can now exist in virtually any non Apple environment.

Apple gets to charge whatever they want to. The consumers who are potential purchasers of Apple products are not thinking about margins, but they are thinking about the "cool factor" and the user experience. Many (like you) are either apparently not impressed with either or both or just don't like Apple for whatever reason they choose. Apple can't please everyone.

When Apple's "perceived" value is no longer what the consumer is willing to accept (price versus "cool factor" and user experience), they will go elsewhere.

And for me, the user experience (on my computer, not my phone) that matters most is hardware/software reliability. I have two Windows machines in the house (Windows 7) and two Macs. I have not had to re-boot either Mac in years. If only I could say that about my two PC's.

 

[Steve Williams]

I'm not Tim but comparing a $30 connector to a $3000 per foot piece of cable is more than a stretch, don't you think?

I was an early Apple fan and ran an IT shop in a large bank. I wanted to get Apple products into the bank but had only minor success since, as has been pointed out, they were close to impossible to integrate into our other systems ---- so we used a few for specialty applications. In my next company, I tried again but finally just gave up. Fast forward to today and that is no longer the case. Apple stayed the course and can now exist in virtually any non Apple environment.

Apple gets to charge whatever they want to. The consumers who are potential purchasers of Apple products are not thinking about margins, but they are thinking about the "cool factor" and the user experience. Many (like you) are either apparently not impressed with either or both or just don't like Apple for whatever reason they choose. Apple can't please everyone.

When Apple's "perceived" value is no longer what the consumer is willing to accept (price versus "cool factor" and user experience), they will go elsewhere.

And for me, the user experience (on my computer, not my phone) that matters most is hardware/software reliability. I have two Windows machines in the house (Windows 7) and two Macs. I have not had to re-boot either Mac in years. If only I could say that about my two PC's.

I completely agree Chuck

As well I bet you never once saw a virus on a MAC vs how many seen on a PC

 

[rblnr]

First bold: Nobody cares but the business analyst. The consumer, who is who we were talking about, only cares about what they get for their money.

Agreed, from a consumer standpoint who cares? It's not like the apps are prohibitively priced by and large. And developers have written more programs and made a whole lot more money via iOS than Android. Would they like the cut to be less than 30%? Sure. But without the ecosystem Apple has setup, there are no profits for anyone.

You don't get much for your money. Apple's margins are somewhere close to 45%, much higher than any other manufacturer. How can they afford to charge a margin of 45%? Simple - because their legions of mindless fanboys will religiously buy whatever overpriced gadget Apple decides to sell.

- The iPhone 5 is $200 from carriers with contract like other premium phones. If Apple is able to squeeze out that kind of profit margin on something with build quality and materials as good or better than anything else on the market, isn't that good management to be applauded?

- The fanboy community is about the size of the audiophile community. OK, maybe it's a few times larger. But if that's your base, I don't think your revenue growth for the last quarter exceeds that of MSFT, Amazon and Google combined. I think the 'legion' is the people who like or take it further, and are passionate about the products. The creation of products people are passionate about -- isn't this something to be applauded too? I don't think it's just a legion of mindless lemmings as being portrayed here by some. That would be a much more fickle crowd, the opposite of loyalty. Let's simplify, maybe what Apple says is their mission, 'build the best products', is what alot of people find to be true in the marketplace. And WRT 'mindless', note that Samsung spends 10x as much advertising its phones vs. Apple.

Apple is a closed system (paraphrase)

I hear this from time to time and never fully get it from a consumer standpoint. Not clear on what I can't do, other than have to use a workaround to play FLACs via iTunes. That'll get me and another three barbarians to the gate.

I can read Kindle books, use Google apps (agreed, the delaying with Google Voice was stupid), watch Netflix and Hulu, listen to Spotify and Pandora, etc etc. I'm not sure who the consumer is that this is hurting.

Where it likely helps the consumer alot is thru ease-of-use and the seamlessness of the experience. Less malware and other junk too. I'll trade that anytime for lack of direct FLAC support.

I'm not Tim but comparing a $30 connector to a $3000 per foot piece of cable is more than a stretch, don't you think?

Yes, c'mon. $30 vs. $3000 is not a valid comparison. And the whole lightning 'controversy' when it came out, and antennagate and some others were all overhyped by the press and quickly forgotten by everyone else if they were noticed at all.

I'm with Chuck too on my Mac vs. PC experiences regarding rebooting and stability. And if a Mac costs $100 more and I don't have to deal with constant alerts from crapware, etc., I'll happily pay it. At what cost aggravation?

 

[Steve Williams]

Always an interesting debate as the two sides will always remain polar opposites. For me,I used a PC exclusively until ~ 4 years ago when my youngest son got me hooked. it is just too good, too fast and too idiot proof not to consider. IMO graphics are far better and one never worries about malware, viruses etc. I turn it on and it works and oh BTW, my MAC opens in a few seconds whereas the PC seems to take forever to open or close. My son always kids his PC friends that in order to stop the computer you have to push the "start" button

For me switching to all Apple was a revelation and personally I will never go back to a PC. Like Bob, I am wondering what it is that I can't do on my iPhone or Macbook Pro, ipad or iPod. I also agree with the comments that much of Apple's value and charm has receded over the past 4-6 months but perhaps I am part of the flock waiting for the next best thing from Apple but for now I am quite happy

 

[Steve Williams]

Samsung Galaxy S IV Expected to Use Plastic Casing

Shane McGlaun Daily Tech



Plastic likely to be used extensively in the Galaxy S IV

The Samsung Galaxy S III is been incredibly popular smartphone for Samsung. One of the more common complaints that users have had about the device is that it feels rather flimsy thanks to the plastic case. Other high-end smartphones, such as the iPhone 5 and HTC One, use aluminum, giving the devices a more solid feel.

We’re sure there a lot of people out there were hoping that the Galaxy S IV might move to a more rigid metal frame, but CNET reports that the S IV won’t stray far from the design philosophy implemented on the Galaxy S III. According to Samsung executive vice president of mobile business Y.H. Lee, when Samsung looks at the materials it wants to use it doesn't only think about the aesthetics and quality, it also looks at how quickly and efficiently can you make the device.

Thin plastic frames and bodies would certainly be easier and cheaper to develop and manufacture. Samsung is also said to have had conversations about maintaining a removable back allowing the battery to be removed. Samsung maintains that using a thin and flexible plastic back cover for their devices makes it more durable than other smartphones. This claim comes from the fact that the thinner and flexible plastic can bend to better absorb a physical impact.

The Samsung executive stopped short of saying whether or not the Galaxy S IV would use plastic or move to more premium materials such as metal or even polycarbonate.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

You don't get much for your money. Apple's margins are somewhere close to 45%, much higher than any other manufacturer. How can they afford to charge a margin of 45%? Simple - because their legions of mindless fanboys will religiously buy whatever overpriced gadget Apple decides to sell. Most other manufacturers have a margin of 10% or so. Apple fanboys must be the only people who proudly boast that they pay 35% over and above what they would have paid if Apple priced its products sensibly.

You are well known here for arguing against overpriced cables. How are you enjoying your lightning connector, Tim?

You're making my point without seeing it, Keith. Why do you suppose Apple has the world's most brand-loyal customers (your legions of fan boys) willing to pay a premium for their products? Do you suppose it is because it is a "closed system" that prevents them from using non-Apple file formats, doesn't play well with other consumer electronics products and forces them to use different connectors? That it is because their ecosystem is unfriendly? You think they'e that dumb?

Evidently your opinion of your fellow humans is low; I can tell you two things from very direct experience with many Windows and Apple users and many Windows to Apple converts: They love the "closed system"...well, most don't even think about that, actually. What they think about is the ease of use, the seamless integration of Apple designed and/or approved hardware and software. Most of them characterize it quite untechnologically. After years of wading through the Windows swamp with every OS upgrade and every added device; after downloading and installing drivers for software and hardware that was just barely made to work together by engineers with no patience for anyone who doesn't inherently understand the superiority of their products and spending hours on help lines where the software people blamed the hardware people, the hardware people blamed the software people and MS blamed everybody else, they are thrilled to have a computer that "just works." What computer geeks think of as closed doors and limitations, millions of average users have seen as an incredible rush of freedom. They finally get to just use their computers. And their computers finally just do what they are supposed to. Millions are not only willing to pay for that, they become downright evangelical about it. Fan boys.

And yes, I know Windows has gotten much better. They don't care. They haven't forgotten.

What most Apple users also don't know, and don't care about is that the "closed system" nonsense is a myth. I connect everything in my Mac system through wireless and USB. That's how I'm enjoying lightning. I never even used firewire. But if I had needed the speed, I would have, and, as opposted to audiophile cable, I would have gotten a tangible, measurable benefit from it. "Closed system?" I use any audio files I want, and I only use iTunes. I run Windows Media directly. I send movies from my MacBook wirelessly to my son's Playstation 3 and play it back on my Panasonic plasma. My MacBook, my son's iPad, my wife's Windows, the PS3...they're all connected. I have thrown open every door and window I've found "closed" in my path so far, with the aid of small software solutions that are as fast and easy to download as a Windows driver, and the most expensive one I've ever found was 30 bucks. Hell, I could run Windows programs, even Windows itself, in a window next to my OSX programs if I had the need. Most Apple users will never do this, or even know it can be done, because it is nearly as much trouble as using Windows. Well, not really, but it does take a bit of effort. Staying within the Apple ecosystem? No effort. Walk into the room, push a button on you iPad and what's there instantly plays back on your TV. It "just works." If you guys think that's "consumer unfriendly," or that people are not willing to pay a premium for seamless integration that "just works," you simply do not understand people.

Tim

 

[rblnr]

I also agree with the comments that much of Apple's value and charm has receded over the past 4-6 months but perhaps I am part of the flock waiting for the next best thing from Apple but for now I am quite happy

Yeah, I think everyone's sick of all the lawsuits, whatever the merit. As for the next big thing, which everybody puts huge pressure on Cook for, let's look at the timeline. 2007 iPhone. 2011 iPad. 2015 _____? I'm impatient too, but it's worth remembering that there was a four year gap between breakthrough products and Cook is already supposed to have one or he's failing. The Next Big Thing was tough for Jobs too and he had his share of duds as well. Cook isn't allowed to even to make a typo, figuratively.