Amplification for Sonus Faber Il Cremonese

[Kbh57]

I'm looking to upgrade the power amp in my system, consisting in part of Sonus Faber Il Cremonese speakers, dcs Bartok DAC, and Octave Audio Jubilee preamp. I'll audition before I buy, but would like to narrow the field as no stores are close. I currently have a Michi S5 which may not be up to the rest of the system but, in my opinion, punches above its weight-no glaring deficiencies, just looking for the next piece of the puzzle. Considering the Boulder 1160-some say its not a great match for Sonus Faber-wondering if anyone has experience. I'm also considering T+A HV3000. Shying away from tubes because of the hassle factor-I'm old and inept-but intrigued by Octave MRE 220SE-the Jubilee preamp is superb. Finally, interested in the Dan D line but can't afford the mono, would be looking at Momentum s250.

Looking for new or dealer demo, budget tops out at 35-40k. I really appreciate the benefit of your observations.

 

[craigr]

I have the SF Il Cremonese and have tried several combinations of amps and preamps over the last several years. My sources are Rossini Apex DAC and AMG Viella turntable.

I listen to classical and jazz and never rock, metal or similar genre.

I found the ARCRef6 SE to be cold, clinical, and not that "faithful" to the sound of instruments. So, I replaced the ARC with a VAC Master preamp. This is highly resolving, but with its two tubes, more accurately presents the tonal qualities of the instruments. Contrary to what I would have expected, the VAC provides excellent articulation, but has a very "full" midrange sound. This "fullness" or density of sound belies the articulation and separation, that is the detail is very much present but just not "hitting you in the face" as with say the ARC or a D'Agostino. There is a slight warmth to the VAC but certainly not to the extent of "classic tubes."

My first amps for the Il Cremonese were Rogue Audio Apollo Dark Monos. These were good, but lacked control of the bass and did not provide the clarity that the speakers were capable of delivering.

So I traded"up" to a D'Agostino Momentum. MxV S250 (stereo). This allowed the speakers to display all their capabilities with a controlled bass, full midrange and excellent treble with only the slightest suggestion of brightness. But, the presentation was from the 20th row of the Orchestra or the back of a "jazz club." It was not fatiguing, but not as engaging or inspirational. Polite, refined.

So, I just traded "down" to the Simaudio Moon North Collection 861. (This is a stereo amp that can be bridged to mono.) Unfortunately, these are in short supply, so my dealer loaned me the 761 to use until my 861 arrives. I have spent the last several weeks comparing the DAG with the 761. I am waiting for the 861 to write a full comparison, but for now, here are my impressions with the 761 vs the DAG:

The 761 has a more controlled and greatly more dynamic, impactful bass. The midrange is full and very well articulated. The treble is likewise articulate and all instruments have the resonance, tonal character, and presentation that places them in the room without association to the speakers. Soundstage both w/r to width and depth is greater with the 761 than the DAG. The 761 places me in the front of the stage or around the 5th row Orchestra seats. It is a more "exciting", and therefore I feel more engaging, presentation. It is not rude, crude or abusive, but it is not the gentile politeness of the DAG.

I do believe that the synergy between a tubed preamp and the solid state amp is critical to the success of my system and I would highly recommend this combination with speakers like the Il Cremonese.

Incidentally, and importantly, the VAC only has two tubes, and the developer and owner of VAC personally informed me that in the Masters preamp, I should expect at least 2000 hours and probably more before considering replacement. They do not need biasing, so really, although tubed, the preamp is "maintenance free." (2000 hours is nearly a full year of listening every day for 8 hours... so realistically, over two years of use before considering a change.)

Importantly, I have tried various cables (Nordost Valhalla, Nordost Odin and Shunyata Sigma and Omega). The cabling totally changes the sound of the speakers. As I have written elsewhere, the Nordost cables have a mist or haze that softens the presentation and tends to decrease the articulation. The Shunyata cables are just "absent", allowing the source, preamp and amp to present the music without any loss or coloration. I highly recommend the Shunyata cables with these speakers. (Also their power cords and Denali or Everest which make a remarkable positive difference.)

Incidentally, I did try a T+A integrated at the request of the dealer. Sadly, T+A did not have their software actually working, and recommended various "work arounds" while they continued to develop the software. I got a couple of tracks to play, but the sound was clinical, non engaging, and it did not work well with the SF speakers.

I hope this helps. You have fantastic speakers

 

[Kbh57]

Thanks for your response- sharing your experience is very helpful. I'm a Simaudio fan-I have a Simaudio phono stage=P6- and used a 390 preamp-dac-streamer for a few years. High quality, well built equipment, at a good price for what you get.

I've heard nothing but high praise for VAC, sounds like a great preamp.My preamp is a hybrid and I'm very taken with the sound. If I can find the right amp. I think I'll be done for a while. Most upgrades I've made have resulted in subtle improvements. The exceptions have been moving from SF Serafino to Il Cremonese, from the moon 390 to the Octave Jubilee, and room treatments. Those were big gains, immediately noticeable.

You have a great system-obviously the product of a lot of thought. Thanks.

 

[Mgrif104]

I have the Sonus Faber Serafinos because my room is smaller and the larger units would overload it. But the voicing and general impedance curves are similar (I think - could be wrong). I drive my speakers with the T+A PA 3100 HV integrated amp which is quite similar in topology, voicing and current capability to the amplifier you cite. However, unlike the previous poster - all who’ve listened to my system say the sound is fantastic, very engaging and smooth. It’s a terrific match for Sonus Faber. Case in point - the dealer I bought the speakers from is working on becoming a dealer of the brand based on what he heard.
I’m also not sure what software the dealer would have been fiddling with. It’s an integrated amp - there’s no software to adjust. Something seems off and I wonder if it was the HV series of T+A amp being demonstrated there. So, I’d recommend an audition if you can. Of course YMMV, but I’ve personally found a very happy combination.
Best,

 

[Kbh57]

I have the Sonus Faber Serafinos because my room is smaller and the larger units would overload it. But the voicing and general impedance curves are similar (I think - could be wrong). I drive my speakers with the T+A PA 3100 HV integrated amp which is quite similar in topology, voicing and current capability to the amplifier you cite. However, unlike the previous poster - all who’ve listened to my system say the sound is fantastic, very engaging and smooth. It’s a terrific match for Sonus Faber. Case in point - the dealer I bought the speakers from is working on becoming a dealer of the brand based on what he heard.
I’m also not sure what software the dealer would have been fiddling with. It’s an integrated amp - there’s no software to adjust. Something seems off and I wonder if it was the HV series of T+A amp being demonstrated there. So, I’d recommend an audition if you can. Of course YMMV, but I’ve personally found a very happy combination.
Best,

Thank you for your reply. I have read good things about T plus A equipment. As always, the only way you know is to audition in your room, but it’s very helpful to get some information to determine which brands are candidates. I had the Serafinos which are great speakers, just a bit small for my room.
I appreciate your response

 

[craigr]

Mgrif104:
Yes it was the HV series and T+A rep said that the software for the HV units was not working and provided various "work arounds" that were unsatisfactory. By now, of course, they may have remedied the issues.

 

[Mgrif104]

Hi @craigr
I remain confused. There isn’t any software for that unit (PA 3100 HV). I own it. It’s a high end straight up analog integrated amp. Or, was the dealer having trouble with something feeding it?

Are you sure they weren’t demoing the new T+A R2500 which does have high voltage on the rails? It’s an all in one unit which includes a streamer and DAC, with a new streaming client that they just rolled out.

 

[Manofaction]

The T+A PA3100HV does have a room correction module that can be added to the unit. It's possible this is what the poster's dealer was fiddling with. T+A HV is very very good. I will be testing with my Marten's soon. I don't think anyone who has purchased this unit adds the room correction module.

 

[Mgrif104]

The T+A PA3100HV does have a room correction module that can be added to the unit. It's possible this is what the poster's dealer was fiddling with. T+A HV is very very good. I will be testing with my Marten's soon. I don't think anyone who has purchased this unit adds the room correction module.

Interesting. I was unaware of such an option. Perhaps that is the explanation.

 

[zermatt]

I have the Il Cremonese.
I use a Conrad johnson Prem 8XS (El34) with Funk 18.2 subs. Its a big sound and very lush.

 

[Corinthian]

I have just moved on from SF Serafino's, which I think are wonderful speakers, and although not necessarily directly relevant to the OP's question, I had variably used Gryphon Diablo 300, Essence, and Pandora/Mephisto. IMO they responded well to a big powerful amp to drive them, sounding progressively better, so I can only assume that the bigger, more expensive Il Cremonese also like a meaty power amp too?

 

[TheaterBob]

I’m getting the bug to upgrade my amps: Any suggestions are appreciated.

My system:

Two-Channel / Music System

• Speakers (Mains): Sonus Faber Il Cremonese Ex3me

• Amplification (Music):

• Moon 891 → DAC + streamer + preamp (bypass for theater)

• Moon 860A V2 stereo amp (front channels)



• Considering upgrades:

• Second Moon 860A V2 in mono

• Dan D’Agostino Momentum S250 stereo

• Pass Labs XA160.8

• Burmester 909 Mk5 l

• Subwoofers (Music): Dual REL 212/SX, tuned.



⸻



Theater System (7.3.6)

• Processor: Marantz AV10 (Dirac purchased and used; no audio value

Upgrade: Trinnov Altitude 16

• Center Channel: Sonus Faber Vox Tradition.

• Amplification (Theater):

• Anthem P5 → center, front heights, side surrounds

• Anthem A2 → rear surrounds

• Emotiva 7-channel → remaining channels

• Surround Speakers:

• Side Surrounds: Sonus Faber Olympica I (black, recent upgrade)

• Rear Surrounds: Paradigm Studio 20 v4

• Height Speakers:

• Front Heights: Sonus Faber Venere Wall

• Side & Rear Heights: Paradigm ADP-3

• Subwoofer (LFE): Paradigm Sub 2 (rear placement for theater).



⸻



Power & Room

• Power Conditioning: SurgeX built-in (specialist now at Apex).

• Room Dimensions: 13.5’ x 21’, no parallel walls, slanted ceiling with 4” drop.

• Acoustics: Strong natural diffusion, supportive for both music & theater.