Good day, gentlemen. I'm here, arriving from the Vacuum Tube Audio Forum. I have a modest collection (compared to fellow collectors), and I can highlight the Telefunken RS237, STC4242a, United, and Amperex as top-tier. RCA GE are very good, but in a different league. Japanese and European manufacturers have metal plate versions that sound very good, but they don't have the same heat dissipation or filament voltage. Listening to them requires adjustments or dedicated amplifiers.
Telefunken RS237
- Thread starter TLi
- Start date
Interesting, I recently asked if the lack of getter was an issue, and told it wasn't.
Unless you're referring to someone else, this was my response to you earlier:
"Practically - not sure anything changes regarding how you handle or use them. With regards to reliability, I haven't heard any reports of issues there."
I'm sure it's perfectly possible for there not/never to be an issue, you can understand my slight anxiety if this tube is deliberately designed differently from others (no getter) and thus the greater potential for issues.
And post #22 suggests worry about them is not misplaced.
Never heard of an mc 1/50, what is that?
And what are the exact designations of these other more esoteric variants?
It's difficult to give an opinion; in my opinion, the metal-plate ones sound better...generally speaking.
I like the RS237 a lot. I have three 211 amplifiers, two with 10K transformers and one with a 7K transformer. I use the latter for tubes with lower dissipation, like most European ones. Some of these tubes are very easy to drive, unlike the American 211s.
I would need to modify or build dedicated amplifiers for each tube to give an opinion.
I like the RS237 a lot. I have three 211 amplifiers, two with 10K transformers and one with a 7K transformer. I use the latter for tubes with lower dissipation, like most European ones. Some of these tubes are very easy to drive, unlike the American 211s.
I would need to modify or build dedicated amplifiers for each tube to give an opinion.
Is it possible a "superior" tube can sound "inferior" to what you'd consider a lesser tube in any given 211 amp?
What I mean is, I keep hearing that amp designers "voice" their creations around their tube of choice
...Kondo and Nat around the GE 211
...Mayer around the Mayer Elrog 211/242
...AN around the AN 4242
And that there are any number of variables that mean an Amperex or Telefunken should sound absolutely the best across the board, but may be hampered by a particular 211 amp circuit, or something in plate voltage etc might preclude those great tubes sounding superior to, or even as good as, the more "lowly" tube, in my case the GE.
Thomas Mayer has communicated that this is not a "simple" case of "superior" tube always equals "better" outcomes, things could conspire to make what looks like a slam dunk tube upgrade to not hit the heights.
Whether £3.5k for a quad of Mayer Elrog 211s, £5.5k for Mayer Elrog 242s, £6-10k for Amperex, UEs, Telefunkens, it's a lot of money for potentially a crapshoot/a wing and a prayer/going out on a limb.
What I mean is, I keep hearing that amp designers "voice" their creations around their tube of choice
...Kondo and Nat around the GE 211
...Mayer around the Mayer Elrog 211/242
...AN around the AN 4242
And that there are any number of variables that mean an Amperex or Telefunken should sound absolutely the best across the board, but may be hampered by a particular 211 amp circuit, or something in plate voltage etc might preclude those great tubes sounding superior to, or even as good as, the more "lowly" tube, in my case the GE.
Thomas Mayer has communicated that this is not a "simple" case of "superior" tube always equals "better" outcomes, things could conspire to make what looks like a slam dunk tube upgrade to not hit the heights.
Whether £3.5k for a quad of Mayer Elrog 211s, £5.5k for Mayer Elrog 242s, £6-10k for Amperex, UEs, Telefunkens, it's a lot of money for potentially a crapshoot/a wing and a prayer/going out on a limb.
Well, to each their own. My main interest is in DHT SETs tube amps; I only need a pair.
Designers respond to their market; many of them try to offer more power instead of better sound with less power—going for Class A2 in many cases, for example.
Furthermore, designers would like to offer them with at least GE tubes, but that would raise the price unacceptably for a manufacturer. They offer the tubes as a "compliment," obviously not all of them; the really expensive ones do include them. There are many ways to use a particular tube; it's like cooking, each chef has their own particular "recipe," not necessarily to everyone's liking.
I personally don't really like 211 tubes; they're fine and offer power and control. But I do prefer low-wattage
tubes.
By the way, Thomas Mayer molybdenum is a great 211
Designers respond to their market; many of them try to offer more power instead of better sound with less power—going for Class A2 in many cases, for example.
Furthermore, designers would like to offer them with at least GE tubes, but that would raise the price unacceptably for a manufacturer. They offer the tubes as a "compliment," obviously not all of them; the really expensive ones do include them. There are many ways to use a particular tube; it's like cooking, each chef has their own particular "recipe," not necessarily to everyone's liking.
I personally don't really like 211 tubes; they're fine and offer power and control. But I do prefer low-wattage
tubes.
By the way, Thomas Mayer molybdenum is a great 211
Nothing that can't be changed by biasing by asking the manufacturer or getting a techie in. That's how people do it.
Specious logic.
Exactly what excultor said. Designers need a consistent, replaceable, current production tube across amps, with margins added and planned to a consistent cost, while a consumer just needs one pair, and later another for backup/replacement, and consumer can pay the varying price for that pair, take the chance one is bust on the way to discovery.
So, Thomas Mayer saying this isn't a simple problem with a simple universally replicable answer is incorrect?
I certainly know who I'll listen to.
I don't doubt I might be overstressing, but being blasé is not an option either.
I've already asked the designer. The answer is that only the GE is guaranteed to sound good in his amp.
I've spoken to the engineer who says he's happy to bias correctly but cannot predict how different tubes will sound.
As long as you are happy with what you have, that’s all that matters. GE and Zus are the way to go.
Ps: has Thomas said GE will sound as good or better than Amperex United and WE etc? No, so don’t misrepresent what he said
Here we go, I'm not misinterpreting anyone. I never specifically asked him about Mayer Elrog v Amperex or Telefunken, but about GE, in relation to the variables from one amp to another.
And unlike you, he was bullish his 211s could easily sound better than my GEs, but that there were good reasons that they *might not do*, not every amp/tubes combination can be confidently predicted.
And unlike you, he was bullish his 211s could easily sound better than my GEs, but that there were good reasons that they *might not do*, not every amp/tubes combination can be confidently predicted.
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