Introducing Olympus & Olympus I/O - A new perspective on modern music playback

[Kris]

They look darker Gray than light gray we have seen before, but that might be just the poor light or the phone camera.

Emile will not sell something that is not meeting his high Expectations.

 

[RUIN*ish]

They look darker Gray than light gray we have seen before, but that might be just the poor light or the phone camera.

Emile will not sell something that is not meeting his high Expectations.

Yeah.. We know.. That's why I asked.

 

[Taiko Audio]

They look darker Gray than light gray we have seen before, but that might be just the poor light or the phone camera.

Emile will not sell something that is not meeting his high Expectations.

They’re the same colour, it’s the LED lighting in the machining room / no natural daylight.

 

[John T]

Chassis parts, fresh in from the Anodising company:

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View attachment 132862

Man, they are sexy looking! Even on a pallet...

 

[nenon]

Nenon, thanks for your elucidation. But I suspect your experience of i2s has been limited to the PS Audio's implementation (the output format as HDMI or RJ45).

No, not at all. I really dug into I2S implementations. As I mentioned in my post:

I’ve tried every possible solution I could find on both ends - the digital source and DAC.

And not only I dug into various i2S implementations but power supply designs powering the I2S circuitry, upgraded clocks, etc. As with everything in audio, the implementation matters more than the technology itself. For example, I've tried 4 different ways to convert I2S to LVDS and all four sounded different. I've also tried native I2S if it's not clear yet.

Not to mention cables. With native I2S implementation, a 100 cm cable sounds different than 110 cm cable, which sounds different than 90 cm cable, etc. I played a lot with cable materials (thin and thick ribbon were also used) and geometries. But at some point I really focused on cable lengths, and even an inch could make or brake the magic.

So, been there, than that. There is always pros and cons with every design. The best I2S implementation I achieved had some sound quality advantages over the best USB implementation. And I am guessing you value those particular properties more than me. I have different preferences - what they are probably becomes very clear in my interview with Ron Resnick:

@Moladiego - I am happy for you that this simple solution works for you. In fact I secretly envy you . I have different philosophy and priorities. And really hoping the Olympus XDMI + Olympus I/O is my last digital source for years to come.

 

[wil]

To complete the posts above,

XDMI is a new standard to transport digital audio. It's a PCIe card inside the Olympus (or extended to the I/O via Taiko's proprietary connection), which means it has direct super fast access to the CPU. That also means it can take the digital signal (i.e., PCM, DSD, etc.) and transfer it much faster than any of the existing audio interfaces. On the first page here, Emile mentions that it's 2000x faster / lower latency than a standard USB interface.

I won't pretend I know any secrets, because I don't. But common sense tells me that what happens next depends on the daughter card used.
- In the case of a XDMI analog output daughter card, the transported digital signal must be converted to I2S that feeds the ROHM DAC chip before it gets converted to an analog signal.
- In the case of a Lampizator digital output, there is some proprietary way of transferring the digital signal to the Lampizator DAC and there it would be converted to I2S.

A question that’s interested me from the very beginning of hearing about Xdms, is whether the simple Taiko analog out will equal or surpass the Xdmi implementations needed to connect to Lampi, Aries Cerat etc. dacs.

To hear nenon speak of the sound quality differences between very small cables lengths brings to light how critical these interfaces are.

I’m guessing there are compromises involved that might not exist with the Taiko analog out implementation. How will these possible compromises weigh against the possible advantages of these 3rd party dacs?

 

[dminches]

A question that’s interested me from the very beginning of hearing about Xdms, is whether the simple Taiko analog out will equal or surpass the Xdmi implementations needed to connect to Lampi, Aries Cerat etc. dacs.

To hear nenon speak of the sound quality differences between very small cables lengths brings to light how critical these interfaces are.

I’m guessing there are compromises involved that might not exist with the Taiko analog out implementation. How will these possible compromises weigh against the possible advantages of these 3rd party dacs?

To me that’s the most intriguing aspect of the Olympus.

 

[John T]

The million dollar question...

 

[MOTU]

For what it's worth, I have found that adding a DTech DT-7014A (possibly only sold in China, 30 USD), which is a USB to Ethernet back to USB converter, between Extreme and DAC (in my case Lampi Horizon) significantly improved the USB SQ. Now I did use AIM USB cables (one of which had to be changed to type A on both sides using an ATL gold USB connector) and UTP network cable and a high quality PSU. But the improvement is undeniable, I wouldn't be able to go back. I don't know what causes it, but it could simply be the getting rid of the ground loop.

 

[Moladiego]

@Moladiego - I am happy for you that this simple solution works for you. In fact I secretly envy you . I have different philosophy and priorities. And really hoping the Olympus XDMI + Olympus I/O is my last digital source for years to come.

@nenon All good. I have only one priority - music, the end before which all others are means. Being not a manufacturer or dealer, I am driven only by one love, love of music. Fanclub zealotry or personal idolatry are alien concepts or feelings to me. Have no particular interest in the underlying technology either (other than curiosity). Because my modded DVD player (which does not even have a USB input and can only spin video discs, not usable as a server) gives me a taste of what a purer reproduction can sound (closer to the sound of live music), I decided to move to get an Olympus (I cannot wait to get rid of USB, which is not even as good as the modded SPDIF for me, DSD non-compatibility be damned). Hope the move will pan out. Only time can tell.

 

[Moladiego]

If you're that interested in this particular topic it might be interesting to read up on why SPDIF / AES/EBU were created in the first place, there are a lot of papers on the problems associated with transporting I2S over a distance. Or perhaps there are some topics on why MSB created their PRO ISL interface as a better way to transport I2S as an implementation directly aimed at audiophiles.

For me it's not a particularly interesting topic to spend time on debating, it's decades old technology, we only use it for backwards compatibility.

I've written a lot about it already in this thread, this search will give you quick access to that:

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Emile, I described unique products you or Nenon have not seen or experienced. Also the kind of ribbon cables I got (exceptionally directional with practically no insulation, with the least dielectric and skin effects); truly unique and one of a kind. Not to expect or solicit interest. No one has tried or seen all in this world. I jumped on the topic initially in response to another topic and out of curiosity. But thanks to your response, I abandoned my assumptions and learned something. Thanks.

 

[nenon]

A question that’s interested me from the very beginning of hearing about Xdms, is whether the simple Taiko analog out will equal or surpass the Xdmi implementations needed to connect to Lampi, Aries Cerat etc. dacs.

To hear nenon speak of the sound quality differences between very small cables lengths brings to light how critical these interfaces are.

I’m guessing there are compromises involved that might not exist with the Taiko analog out implementation. How will these possible compromises weigh against the possible advantages of these 3rd party dacs?

To me that’s the most intriguing aspect of the Olympus.

The million dollar question...

We know very little to speculate. I won't go too deep into my speculations but will scratch the surface:

I expect the Olympus XDMI analog output to sound a lot better than Taiko Extreme USB + Lampizator Horizon. If that is true, those who have an Extreme and Horizon can sell their Horizon, one USB cable, and one power cord, trade-in the Extreme for Olympus XDMI and if lucky maybe even keep some change in their pocket. This should be a pretty big upgrade already. Combine with a good tube preamp and it may be an end game.

The question is what will be the next step up from there? Would it be the Horizon? Or would it be the I/O. The answer might very well be personal preference.

That's as much as I am willing to speculate publicly. If people are interested in deeper speculations, please reach out privately. But it's best to put any speculations aside and wait until we have everything in our hands and try the different variations.

Ironically, although I became a dealer for Aries Cerat, I know absolutely nothing about their future XDMI implementation!

 

[VPN]

My expectations for the next generation(s) of the Taiko XDMI DAC:

1. I believe that in order to go all-in with the DAC, maybe keep the network card in the Olympus and use all the available space of an Olympus I/O for the XDMI DAC. So the whole Olympus I/O will be the Taiko DAC.
2. In order to replace my DAC, I need at least two digital inputs in the Taiko XDMI DAC, one for Kaleidescape and one for AppleTv X. Could be SPDIF coax and AES.
3. I need the best possible volume control (I don't use a preamp).
4. If possible a top output stage to drive the power amp directly.

 

[cat6man]

For what it's worth, I have found that adding a DTech DT-7014A (possibly only sold in China, 30 USD), which is a USB to Ethernet back to USB converter, between Extreme and DAC (in my case Lampi Horizon) significantly improved the USB SQ. Now I did use AIM USB cables (one of which had to be changed to type A on both sides using an ATL gold USB connector) and UTP network cable and a high quality PSU. But the improvement is undeniable, I wouldn't be able to go back. I don't know what causes it, but it could simply be the getting rid of the ground loop.

similar result here. i added a sotm usb to aes/ebu reclocker and it made a huge difference with a totaldac.

 

[nenon]

Emile, I described unique products you or Nenon have not seen or experienced. Also the kind of ribbon cables I got (exceptionally directional with practically no insulation, with the least dielectric and skin effects); truly unique and one of a kind. Not to expect or solicit interest.

You are right - I have not experienced your particular I2S implementation. However, I am not questioning your results at all. I was just sharing my findings with similar technology. It’s common to see one person praising a product, leading many others to try it. Personally, I find it very useful to see a range of opinions.

A good example is the latest XDMS NSM update. It started with a few people highlighting it as a major improvement. Then, others mentioned they tried it and had to rollback. If we only saw the positive feedback, we wouldn’t know that some people experienced negative effects. This is what makes forums so valuable.

I was simply trying to provide a different perspective on I2S. Initially, I was a huge fan and invested a lot of time, effort, and money into it, but eventually, I abandoned it completely. I can't try every new thing that comes out, but based on extensive DIY experience with servers and DACs, I have certain technologies I'm interested in and others I'm not.

From a technical perspective and my experience, thin ribbon cables with minimal insulation are among the worst options for pure I2S implementation over long distances. Ribbon cables are more susceptible to noise, especially in environments with high EMI. However, this does not mean I know how your solution sounds. Ultimately, what matters is that you enjoy listening to music.

 

[joet]

My expectations for the next generation(s) of the Taiko XDMI DAC:

1. I believe that in order to go all-in with the DAC, maybe keep the network card in the Olympus and use all the available space of an Olympus I/O for the XDMI DAC. So the whole Olympus I/O will be the Taiko DAC.
2. In order to replace my DAC, I need at least two digital inputs in the Taiko XDMI DAC, one for Kaleidescape and one for AppleTv X. Could be SPDIF coax and AES.
3. I need the best possible volume control (I don't use a preamp).
4. If possible a top output stage to drive the power amp directly.

Similarly, being able to use the analog out card is a big reason I decided to upgrade to the Olympus. This said, I'm not expecting or desirous of Taiko getting into the DAC and preamp business. Certainly, there are a few logical enhancements that make sense for a next generation of the card, for example XLR. But creating DACs and preamps are different skill sets that could distract from core competencies, and might keep DAC manufacturers from partnering with XDMI.

 

[nonesup]

We

Ironically, although I became a dealer for Aries Cerat, I know absolutely nothing about their future XDMI implementation!

This for me is an absolute enigma. According to what has been published, the DACs will not have to be sent to Cyprus, this implies that one of the three inputs available on the DACs will have to be used: Spdif, AES/EBU or USB and even though Stavros is a genius, how is he going to What to do to avoid damaging the XDMI interface with any of those entries?

 

[VPN]

Similarly, being able to use the analog out card is a big reason I decided to upgrade to the Olympus. This said, I'm not expecting or desirous of Taiko getting into the DAC and preamp business. Certainly, there are a few logical enhancements that make sense for a next generation of the card, for example XLR. But creating DACs and preamps are different skill sets that could distract from core competencies, and might keep DAC manufacturers from partnering with XDMI.

Taiko has already entered the DAC business, with its XDMI DAC analog out board, I heard it in Munich. I hope one day it makes the absolute best DAC in the market. Probably taking the whole Olympus I/O box could be a good place for its next generation, hopefully all-out DAC.

However, I understand the other DAC brands will still have a place since people have different preferences. For example, I doubt that Taiko will make a tube DAC, like the Lampizator Horizon. So the other DACs provide different flavors for the clients to choose.

 

[dminches]

Taiko has already entered the DAC business, with its XDMI DAC analog out board, I heard it in Munich. I hope one day it makes the absolute best DAC in the market. Probably taking the whole Olympus I/O box could be a good place for its next generation, hopefully all-out DAC.

However, I understand the other DAC brands will still have a place since people have different preferences. For example, I doubt that Taiko will make a tube DAC, like the Lampizator Horizon. So the other DACs provide different flavors for the clients to choose.

Until Taiko’s DAC works outside of their server (Olympus or whatever comes after) I would not consider them in the DAC market.

 

[joet]

Until Taiko’s DAC works outside of their server (Olympus or whatever comes after) I would not consider them in the DAC market.

To clarify what I meant: clearly the success of Olympus and the analog out card will determine the effort Emile thinks is worth putting into it. It's quite possible giving Olympus owners the option of adding the equivalent of a full featured DAC will be the way to go. It might also be where Emile thinks he can best improve sound quality. And who am I to question his great successes? It's possible, even likely, he'll make breakthroughs in DAC technology too. However, all things being equal, giving the card all the features of a standalone DAC will require regular software and hardware updates and turn the card into an expensive, dedicated product line. This will increase the cost of obtaining it and necessitate the focus of new or existing resources to developing, building and marketing it. As of now, the team is working 24/7 just to meet server demand. Obviously, I'm not qualified to opine on what Taiko should focus on, despite the fact that I just did. So my opinion is probably me just being selfish because I love what they're doing with servers, and want that to continue, and want my Olympus ASAP.