Lampizator announcement: launch of our all new TOTL HORIZON DAC

[Alrainbow]

Some thoughts on Rectifiers

I had a long talk with Lukasz about rectifiers . We rolled in a total of 5 different rectifiers and they all sounded different. Some were more engaging than others and some produced sound as good and natural as I have ever heard. There is no doubt that they are also system dependent. Case in. point was the Shuguang gz480 which was my go to rectifier with the Pacific but it was dull and boring with the Horizon. In fact Lukasz played an old Russian rectifier that cost $1.50 and it sounded better than the uber expensive gz480.

What I found fascinating is that a rectifier converts a sine wave to a straight line in each case but every rectifier sounds different for reasons that even Lukasz could not explain. I will shortly summarize my final decision with tube set in my Horizon

Steve im not sure anyone ever mentioned this to so forgive me if its been said . a tube recti has one distinct advantage over ss one . like an set it rolls and does not click on or off . its always on in some ways . years ago i too had talks with yoda about altering ss recti to mimic tubes . i did try some myself too . its very complex to say but tubes each have inherent facts of the design of tube type . the gz480 is of the most powerful recti we use so it does have the least voltage droop and can deliver best dc voltage . but yes it can sound dull , many factors at play here . one type you might try if yoda allows is a simple ss guitar recti . its made for music amps . it may not be magic but it dont burn out . i play music at times for many hours 25 feet back . it does have some great qualities in my pac and gg2 . worth the 15 bucks to have .

 

[Steve Williams]

Steve im not sure anyone ever mentioned this to so forgive me if its been said . a tube recti has one distinct advantage over ss one . like an set it rolls and does not click on or off . its always on in some ways . years ago i too had talks with yoda about altering ss recti to mimic tubes . i did try some myself too . its very complex to say but tubes each have inherent facts of the design of tube type . the gz480 is of the most powerful recti we use so it does have the least voltage droop and can deliver best dc voltage . but yes it can sound dull , many factors at play here . one type you might try if yoda allows is a simple ss guitar recti . its made for music amps . it may not be magic but it dont burn out . i play music at times for many hours 25 feet back . it does have some great qualities in my pac and gg2 . worth the 15 bucks to have .

Thanks for the info Al

However I did not buy a tube amp to use a SS rectifier

Master Yoda in fact mentioned yesterday all about SS recti

 

[Steve Williams]

For me personally, an Ed Meitner versus Lucasz "bring your best" contest would have been more interesting.

It's a bit like reading reviews on any review website. What you are reading isn't your opinion. It is someone else's.

I think the key brilliant factor of tube designs is they let the buyer play a part in deciding what they like and Lucasz has done OK playing on that fact.

I personally think there are much better electronic engineers out there. My experience of having mods done on top of Lucasz's stuff has given, to be quite frank, superior results at minimal cost.

So if you're out there and you can't ever believe to begin you can't afford this stuff don't worry. Getting great results at low cost is a factor of your insight and determination.

So you’ve never heard but have such a bold opinion. To each our own I guess

YMMV but I’m betting I’m crossing the finish line

 

[Willgolf]

I have only one beef with the Horizon. On the Pacific, you can change inputs by hitting the VC knob and it would actually spell out what source you are using. This is not the case with the Horizon It is simply 1,2,3,4. Well, being functionally blind I would rather see it spelled out so I know which source I am on. I might toggle between SPDIF and USB. It is clearly shown in the Pacific.

 

[Gregadd]

Is your unit in house?

 

[Alrainbow]

My Tube Set Choice For My Horizon

I must say that there are endless choices and the trial and error could go on ad infinitum. We rolled in
1. a $1.50 Russian rectifier 5u4g
2. GZ 480
3. Philco 5u4g
4. 274B EML
5. KR 5u4g

It proved the point that's what good for the goose is not always good for the gander. It all boils down to system and room and you have to decide what work best for you

In my search I got lucky and found 3 NIB matched pairs of 6900 and a single 6900 that also matched. Lukasz loves this tube but said im crazy as the one set Have in will outlive all of us

Willgolf also brought with a magnificent tube , a 12AT7 (Brimar 6060 withYellow T on the glass)

I also learned that the unperforated MELZ is also a highly regarded tube by Lukasz and is readily available. Lukasz maintains that the best sound comes from the no holes MELZ. Those with are not as good sonically

We also tried my NIB quad matched set of TS KT170 and granted there was zero time on them what we heard was dull and boring, yet Lukasz says to be patient and re evaluate after some burn in Time

I looked forward to hearing the 274B EML as many rave about it. It to had zero hours on them and it sounded extremely good but was not the first choice of anyone attending. Again I will revisit this when more hours are on the tubes

I have yet to try the quad matched set of Genalex Gold Line Premium KT 77. I will get to them later this week


So where does that leave me at the moment. It all comes down to the proverbial post #44 in this thread where Lukasz told us his favorite.

I also needed to establish a reference and IMO what better reference could be used than that recommended by Lukasz
6900 x 2
KR KT 88 x4
KR 5u4g

I started with this tube set and ran it for days to get hours on the tubes

Again , remembering that the final decision must be based on system and room and it could be different for everyone so using Lukasz reference for me seemed to be the logical starting point

Simply put and to use the words of PeterA and ddk, "above all else it must sound natural", everyone present unanimously agreed that this tube set truly was the best in my system

I was hoping for the gz480 and/or the 274B EML would be the rectifier of choice as I switched from KR 5u4g to gz480 in my Pacific, and I heard great things about the EML 274B
The gz480 came in last place of the 5 we used in the Horizon

The 274B came 2nd but again it had zero hours of play time, so this will be revisited

However people loved the MELZ metal plate tubes and felt they were close to the 6900. MELZ is readily available but again, search for the MELZ that has no holes. Lukasz also commented about tapping the tubes on power up to remove an extraneous sound which is often present. Lukasz has found a way to obviate this problem by desoldering one of the pins on the tube

I started my Lampi path with the Pacific and the KR 5u4g but felt the gz480 was better in the pacific...........

Drum roll please.........

However when the KR 5u4g was introduced as the rectifier everyone in attendance voted it as their number one rectifier and there was no doubt....it was more holographic, more musical and transparent and natural than any of the other rectifiers

Bottom line is you have to try different combinations. We never got to test the 6s7n or Norman's favorite which is based on the 6sn7

So in summary, in my system and in my room the tube set voted on by everyone present is the very one that I started with as it was Lukasz personal favorite. I can live with these forever but I do intend to try all of the other tubes mentioned above. Maybe I will be surprised but for now this tube set is the most natural and transparent sound as well as the most holographic sound stage imaging

Please understand that my choice might not be your choice. You have to compare it in your system and room

The 6900 is an amazing tube and should be tried if you can find it

Finally Emile installed the new OS in part 5 days ago and in total today. I am simply gobsmacked at the sound I am hearing. it is as if I am listening to a totally different system

I am also so pleased to hear Ron's impressions of the weekend. I was so happy he attended and taped the proceedings, yet finally yesterday had his first listen. No digititis or bleeding ears but the most natural sound Ron has heard in digital. And this is coming from a man who has never liked digital and after yesterday will be ordering his very first DAC. For me, Ron's comments were the ultimate tribute to the Horizon

I will have more updates as try all of the other tubes I mentioned above but what I have now is so shockingly perfect that I doubt I will change my mind but I agree to keep an pen mind

Stay tuned....

steve ps vane makes some really good replicas we274b is very good . i own the tak and real nos we recti ps vane when burned in is very good
some like the eml ones i never did i had a few models even mesh . ok see your point but try its very cheap

 

[LampiNA]

i have just arrived at at my hotel in Tampa after an absolutely magical weekend on the west coast at our Horizon launch party. Before commenting on the event itself I must make a very heartfelt thank you to Steve and his lovely wife Cathy for being incredible hosts and opening their home to Lukasz, myself and those of us who were fortunate enough to attend this weekend. Their hospitality was over the top and it was so wonderful to turn an online friendship into an in person one... THANK YOU BOTH.

Big thank yous go out to all of those who were able to take take time away from a particularly crazy weekend to join us for this event. Like the rest of you this past weekend was my first time hearing the *final revision* of the Horizon and I was just as impressed by the finished product as the rest of you. I've probably spent more time than most anyone out there with every model of the line up since 2013. I've heard the improvements and SQ deltas between levels, generations and new models and believed myself to have a good handle on what to anticipate, but I will see the information presented by the Horizon was a slap in the face, greatly exceeding my expectations.

What a treat it was to A/B it against the Pacific in a truly world class/reference grade setup such as Steves and really appreciate what the Horizon has to offer.

I will save the hyperbole and simply say I cannot wait to show it off again this week in Tampa. Anyone reading this thread who will be in the area owes it to themselves to make it room 518 to experience this with their own ears!

I look forward to meeting more of you!

 

[Holli82]

I was lucky enough to briefly attend the event on Saturday. Steve and Cathy were amazing hosts and although I had never met them in person, they made me feel as if I had known them for years. I can't thank them enough for the time and effort to make this event a reality.

It was great meeting some of the names behind the avatars and I even took a sneak peak at Ron and Tinka's Corvette convertible when I left.

It's always daunting meeting the principles of any successful venture but Lukasz and Fred were not only real smart--- but real nice people too. The last time I remember an individual being so passionate and nice about his product was over 15 years ago when I had the pleasure to meet Albert Von Schweikert. Lukasz has the ability to explain complicated concepts and ideas in a way that even I could understand. I left feeling whether you are buying the top of line Horizon or the and entry level Amber the attention to detail and the customer service will be the same.

My thoughts on the Horizon ( I have GG2).

1. Deeper soundstage
2. Greater details----background singers and instruments easier for me to identify and follow in complex multilayered music passages
3. More dynamic

I'm sure the Horizon will be a great addition to any system and if you are looking for the the final piece digital puzzle, look no further.

 

[Gregadd]

Steve and Lukasz

 

[Gregadd]

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

I have only one beef with the Horizon. On the Pacific, you can change inputs by hitting the VC knob and it would actually spell out what source you are using. This is not the case with the Horizon It is simply 1,2,3,4. Well, being functionally blind I would rather see it spelled out so I know which source I am on. I might toggle between SPDIF and USB. It is clearly shown in the Pacific.

Well, the very unique coolness of nixie display is for me eorth the compromise, that it is far less informative than oled panel , but otoh how long will it take you to memorize, that 1 is spdif and 4 is usb? And the digits are super large, bright and legible. Even from the distance of listening chair.

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

I moved for a brief moment to Northern California for a decompression stop before the Tampa Show. I still can't believe the time I just had chez William's. The hospitality of our host was so overwhelming, it makes me blush when I write this.
It was a super special time for me, not only meeting everybody for the first time, but also my joy of hearing my baby Horizon in such magnificent room/system as Steves. It was only the third system I ever heard it in, but also by far the best . What bliss, what joy. All my assumptions and expectations proved right. The dac performed EXACTLY as I planned. Thank you Cathy and Steve, and everybody who found time to attend.

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

pretty sure the horizon has a remote just like the pac. Every Horizon has the Vol Ctl function as standard, just like Bal is standard.

The remote always works.

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

Votage drop is a big reason for the SQ difference. What is your new fav rectifier? I am betting EML 274B mesh! LoL. U will have no problem disposing of the GZ480 as its kinda hard to get at times. What was the Ruskie rectified? 5Y3?

The Soviet one was 5u4s

 

[mr.gregdee]

Just a teaser.
Yes tube rolling makes a difference.
Yes you can bypass the dac.
Yes it is objectively better than the Pacific.

Txs Greg, hearing what we all expected to hear but it is great to hear that what we expected was right

Without a doubt, the unexpected treasure of this event was ro pick Lucaszs' mind. He appears to be a man of humble beginnings complaining about the problems of being rich. Will some one please give this man a discount?
DISCLAIMER
I have not heard enough dacs to rank them. I was mightily impressed by the Amber3 and Pacific. I heard them at shows. We know how that limits ones opinion.
Music is analog. I judge vinyl and digital by the same standard. How close does it come to real music in real space.
To put it bluntly Steve's system is devoid of the usual artifacts of audiophile systems. No doubt to his slavish attention to detail. One caveat : I sorely miss the old room.
I flew from SanFrancisco Santa Anna which affects my ears. By Sunday they had recovered.
I will probably never own a Horozon.
Although I was wined and dined I have no monetary interest in the product.
EVALUATION
Like any demo Saturday was about trying to accommodate as many people in a relatively short period. Normallty one would expect anywhere from six months to a year to evaluate a product of this caliber. I am confident that will happen.
I left on Saturday not wowed, but confident Horizon was a valid contender for world class dac and worthy of its price tag of 44k Eiros. As always the true test of these events comes on Sunday. The crowds are smaller and requests are honored.
DAC STRAIGHT INTO AMP
Overall I still recomemd at least a line stage for volume control. That is probably system dependent. I did discuss it withLucks.z. He is not given to yes or no answers. I think he was at least in partial agreement.i detected no adverse effect in Steve's system. In fact there may be slight improvement.
Don't sell your preamp before your Horozon arrives. Don't buy one either. You may have an integrated amp like the big VAC.
TUBE ROLLING
Tube changes resulted in audible differences. On Sunday I had multiple opportunities to audit the tube changes. The way it was presented, you could chose a tube sound or analytical sound. The differences were audible but not dramatic. No need to rush out and buy expensive tubes.

IS THE HORIZON BETTER THAN THE PACIFIC
The Pacific "aint no boat anchor." i remain enamored of the Pacific. In fact there might be a market of used or refurbished Pacific's soon available..
Quite simply I found the Horizon more lively and resolving.
it did bass very well.
It imaged well
It was dynamic.
The real question is should you sell your Pacific. Sorry I can't make that call.you may need a system capable of revealing its qualities.Be careful. 8f you hear the Horizon you will want it.
Thanks to Steve,Lukasz,Cathy, and Fred for sponsoring this event.
Note: I still lament the lack of a cage to protect the tubes. No doubt Poland probably is not a litigious country.
EDIT
Actually I was already in California.i flew from SanFrancisco- Santa Ana on Friday.



View attachment 89285

"
The Pacific "aint no boat anchor." i remain enamored of the Pacific. In fact there might be a market of used or refurbished Pacific's soon available.. Quite simply I found the Horizon more lively and resolving."

Lovely put together conclusions Greg, much appreciated

 

[mr.gregdee]

Well, the very unique coolness of nixie display is for me eorth the compromise, that it is far less informative than oled panel , but otoh how long will it take you to memorize, that 1 is spdif and 4 is usb? And the digits are super large, bright and legible. Even from the distance of listening chair.

I back you UP on that Lukasz , fully. I love the Nixie display myself too, always did. Beside it on pair with the simplicity of the Vacuum tube logic and the less information on the display ( well no DISPLAY at all ) will always be best for me. Plus it glows with lovely orange colour , so nice and calming for an eyes. Those, who like myself, are spending long time listening during the late hours do understand without saying what I am talking about

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

I back you UP on that Lukasz , fully. I love the Nixie display myself too, always did. Beside it on pair with the simplicity of the Vacuum tube logic and the less information on the display ( well no DISPLAY at all ) will always be best for me. Plus it glows with lovely orange colour , so nice and calming for an eyes. Those, who like myself, are spending long time listening during the late hours do understand without saying what I am talking about

It must be said, that the typical display like LCD or OLED require separate poWer supply (nixie doesnt) and its processor to manage pixels (nixie doesnt) and the processor needs a clock and data bus (nixie doesnt) and the lcd generates some level of noise (nixie doesnt) so it is a very wise choice for a DAC.

 

[dminches]

@Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus can you say how many Horizons have been built so far?

 

[Steve Williams]

@Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus can you say how many Horizons have been built so far?

I asked Lukasz the same question when he was here. I know that they are labor intensive to build BUT for me the other answer Lukasz gave me is one that I stood up and took notice to......For reasons which only Lukasz can explain, there will only be 400 Horizons which will EVER be built. Once they are gone.......they will be gone forever. I know how many orders that have already been placed. I truly believe that the Horizon is so good that it will quickly sell out. If it does, I am also of the opinion that if they do sell out they will quickly become collectors' items , will be much sought after and if so their value not only will be preserved but I anticipate their value could even go up. If your order has been placed, you are in the queue and "your" DAC will be built. If anyone is considering the Horizon but sitting the fence, my best advice would be to make your mind up because only 400 will ever be produced. They are not endless as much as Lukasz and Fred would hope that would be the case. Judging by the enthusiasm and interest of so many people at my house this past weekend and orders placed, I bet the Horizon will sell out and become sought after because I doubt many will come back on the market for resale as a used item. Also I sensed from Lukasz the overwhelming joy he has when he talks about his new DAC, so much so that I heard comments that he cannot build anything better than the Horizon

 

[wil]

It must be said, that the typical display like LCD or OLED require separate poWer supply (nixie doesnt) and its processor to manage pixels (nixie doesnt) and the processor needs a clock and data bus (nixie doesnt) and the lcd generates some level of noise (nixie doesnt) so it is a very wise choice for a DAC.

The Nixie Rules!