Audio Research releases Its 40th Anniversary Preamp

[LL21]

really? i would not have thought 2 years from now...i think a few rare/vaunted pieces do get premiums...but even CJ ART 3, Ongaku, Wavac PRT-1...they all started trading at discounts within a couple years of final production. While no doubt rarity will attract "bidding wars"...i think 2 years is enough time for people to feel like they have options for reference level pres. once that happens, "used" starts to weigh on pricing.

and most of all...i suspect by 2 years ARC themselves will have come out with something superior...and that usually kills off premium pricing of earlier references. i cannot imagine them sitting back for 2 full years without announcing a new product that is "their new reference".

 

[Steve Williams]

When I say premium price I mean typically more than the usual 50% off MSRP

 

[mep]

I would bet that there will be a good premium paid on used 40th Anniversary preamps when they come available

I saw something interesting regarding the used prices of REF 3 preamps. Prior to the REF 5 coming out, the prices of used REF 3 preamps were close to $5K and sometimes under that. Once the REF 5 came out and people started selling their REF 3s in order to upgrade to the REF 5, the prices actually went up which surprised me. It seemed to fly in the face of the laws of supply and demand. I figured the opposite would happen. REF 3s are now selling in the high $5K range into the mid $6K range. For not a whole lot more, you can buy a used REF 5.

 

[LL21]

Ah...totally agree with you, Steve. I could see it staying at 65-75% of MSRP for between 3-4 years.

 

[microstrip]

Ah...totally agree with you, Steve. I could see it staying at 65-75% of MSRP for between 3-4 years.

I think you are too optimist (for me) or pessimist (for those waiting for an used one). These very expensive units usually suffer a devaluation around a minimum of 40% at the used market after one or two years use.

I am sure that other manufacturers are now also improving their standards and products of similar quality and price will appear - I am just thinking about the new VTL 7.5 series 3, that I have not heard. The introduction of these models will keep the prices of used Anniversary preamps at normal devaluation rates.

Most of the time these good deals on very expensive used units are not carried at web sites or advertised - usually high-end dealers or the owners use some discretion disposing of this expensive reference equipment. At these occasions, being a good friend of your dealer helps a lot!

 

[LL21]

Hi Microstrip,

i think it largely depends on two things: 1) how few there are...and i suspect there are not that many of these given the 12 months of availability and 2) how long they are perceived as one of "the best". i suspect it will continue to rank that high legitimately for roughly 2 years before someone (incl ARC) really pushes the envelope. and because it still bears that ultimate reference moniker, many buyers will still feel good about owning something they can call the best of the best. as long as those 2 things persist, i suspect pricing will continue well above the typical 50% of Retail mark. only until very recently have i seen CJ ART 3 trade for anywhere near USD15,000 which is still 60% of the 25K original retail. Most people are asking 18K. enjoy yours!!!

 

[LL21]

I saw something interesting regarding the used prices of REF 3 preamps. Prior to the REF 5 coming out, the prices of used REF 3 preamps were close to $5K and sometimes under that. Once the REF 5 came out and people started selling their REF 3s in order to upgrade to the REF 5, the prices actually went up which surprised me. It seemed to fly in the face of the laws of supply and demand. I figured the opposite would happen. REF 3s are now selling in the high $5K range into the mid $6K range. For not a whole lot more, you can buy a used REF 5.

agreed it defies logic...at the same time, i wonder if a) the continuation of the softness in the economy has pushed people to focus more on s/hand electronics (i have always focused on s/hand...but perhaps even more than ever before, even on a digital interconnect. just got a valhalla yesterday.) b) the introduction on the Ref 5 has pushed the market to focus on "snapping up" 3s thinking there ought to be a bargain...and inadvertently pushing up pricing.

 

[caesar]

I saw something interesting regarding the used prices of REF 3 preamps. Prior to the REF 5 coming out, the prices of used REF 3 preamps were close to $5K and sometimes under that. Once the REF 5 came out and people started selling their REF 3s in order to upgrade to the REF 5, the prices actually went up which surprised me. It seemed to fly in the face of the laws of supply and demand. I figured the opposite would happen. REF 3s are now selling in the high $5K range into the mid $6K range. For not a whole lot more, you can buy a used REF 5.

MEP,

I think you are thinking of Ref 2 in that price zone. The Ref 3's were going for 7.5K or so, and eventually dropping to $6.5K with time, before Ref 5 came out.

 

[caesar]

In my humble opinion, the Ref 40 is just a plain old scarcity play on behalf of ARC. It seems they just wanted to boost up sales in the middle of a very soft economy in early 2010, and obviously had the technical know how to create this seemingly outstanding product.

However, we all know that innovation does not stand still. It will be just a matter of time until other manufacturers of top preamps - CJ, BAT, VTL, etc., all catch up to that level (if they are not there already with their own flavor).

And then ARC will have a new BEST.

 

[Steve Williams]

IMO the Ref3 held its value because some felt it was every bit as good as the Ref5. I owned the Ref3 and loved it. A good friend of mine owned the Ref3 and then the Ref5 and then ultimately sold the Ref5 for the VTL 7.5

 

[caesar]

IMO the Ref3 held its value because some felt it was every bit as good as the Ref5. I owned the Ref3 and loved it. A good friend of mine owned the Ref3 and then the Ref5 and then ultimately sold the Ref5 for the VTL 7.5

What amps does your friend use?

 

[Steve Williams]

What amps does your friend use?

VTL Siegfried

 

[caesar]

IMO the Ref3 held its value because some felt it was every bit as good as the Ref5. I owned the Ref3 and loved it. A good friend of mine owned the Ref3 and then the Ref5 and then ultimately sold the Ref5 for the VTL 7.5

Although I never compared the 2 directly, I can imagine some folks upgrading from one to another if they are able to get 65%-75% of the resale value for Ref 3 just to stay current based on the buzz from the Absolute Sound. I think there was a $2K price increase from Ref 3 to Ref 5, which would mean about a $5K hit for those upgrading. And many people don't blink paying this much for their cable upgrades.

 

[Steve Williams]

I owned the Ref2Mk ll before my Ref 3. The Ref 3 was far superior. Now the Ref 5, .........

 

[microstrip]

I owned the Ref2Mk ll before my Ref 3. The Ref 3 was far superior. Now the Ref 5, .........

INHO , it was also superior ... I owned both the Ref3 and the Ref5 for a few months and the Ref 5 had a similar sound, but bass was more defined and the treble more pure. As you seem to suggest, the difference between the Ref 2 and Ref3 was much larger than the one between the later models.

The difference was easy to notice using the Krell LAT1000 - the Ref3 could not control their bass, but the Ref5 could play tunes in the bass. BTW, my friend who got my Ref3 was really an happy man when he got the Ref5 much sooner than he expected ...

 

[JackD201]

VTL Siegfried

Marty?

 

[Steve Williams]

yup

he and I both had ref3's.He upgraded to Ref5 and then to VTL

I went from the Ref3 to the LL1 Signature

 

[microstrip]

yup

he and I both had ref3's.He upgraded to Ref5 and then to VTL

I went from the Ref3 to the LL1 Signature

Steve,

You were the cleverer of us - Vladimir gives his interviews in russian :

http://www.salonav.com/arch/2008/09/070.shtml

 

[KeithR]

2 of these bad boys have popped up on the 'gon. Curious what the owners are moving to...

 

[Orb]

INHO , it was also superior ... I owned both the Ref3 and the Ref5 for a few months and the Ref 5 had a similar sound, but bass was more defined and the treble more pure. As you seem to suggest, the difference between the Ref 2 and Ref3 was much larger than the one between the later models.

The difference was easy to notice using the Krell LAT1000 - the Ref3 could not control their bass, but the Ref5 could play tunes in the bass. BTW, my friend who got my Ref3 was really an happy man when he got the Ref5 much sooner than he expected ...

Is one of the advantages the Ref 5 has is a lower noise floor?
I appreciate for quite a few this may not be a critical issue, but for others if it is even slightly audible then this may be one reason to upgrade to Ref 5.
I hate any hiss, even when it is pretty subtle, strange years ago it never bothered me.

Cheers
Orb