What is it about the bass, that it becomes so robust with after-market cords and conditioners?

[Steve Williams]

Our mind is open. We are just not believers in learning about paranormal.

As it happens and to follow up on Bob's question earlier, someone asked me about this measurement the good folks at Shunyata had run to show effectiveness of power cords: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qCK--lRFd0&feature=youtu.be&t=28

I ran the same test with an outlet right next to my service panel: http://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...s/a-c-isolation-transformers.1430/#post-37612

So I actually get a higher rating than what is in the video (1.5 kamps versus 1.1 kamps). But then I make the same measurement at the outlet in my loft:

A massive drop from 1,500 down to 270 amps. As you see, there is no getting around simple laws of physics which we should all know. That messing with the last few feet of wire can't be done absence of what goes on in the other 50 to 100 feet. BTW there are some issues with this measurement which I touch on in my post on ASR Forum.

Anyway, since you have that open mind, would you run the experiment I have outlined for Tom and Micro? That is do a simple blind test for a week to see if you can tell your power cord from another?

Are you not comparing apples and oranges. Caelin was showing the effect of a stock power cord vs his least expensive power cord each plugged into the same outlet. You are using the same cord in different outlets. Please run the same test as Caelin did by using a stock cord vs his Venom plugged into the same outlet. As far as I can tell you're comparing something totally different. Do the test with two cords as he did in both locations

 

[CGabriel]

I think the test we run in the video is pretty self explanatory.
The ASCC test is designed to test the absolute current carrying capacity of a power line circuit. It is used by commercial electricians to test the load carrying capacity of a power circuit.

In our video we are not concerned with the specific current capacity of the power line. Rather, we are demonstrating how a common power cord can degrade instantaneous current capacity as compared to an inexpensive yet competently constructed power cord.

Caelin

 

[amirm]

Are you not comparing apples and oranges. Caelin was showing the effect of a stock power cord vs his least expensive power cord each plugged into the same outlet. You are using the same cord in different outlets. Please run the same test as Caelin did by using a stock cord vs his Venom plugged into the same outlet. As far as I can tell you're comparing something totally different. Do the test with two cords as he did in both locations

My test has nothing to do with invalidating what Caelin is doing. Nor do I have a reason to doubt the integrity of what he is showing. I believe what he is showing to be correct.

My test is using the same methodology to demonstrate that your enemy on that front is the long feed to your AC socket. By the the time you get through that, you have significantly increased your line to ground impedance. I was very clear in my post about that.

As an aside, people should know that I consider Caelin a professional friend and among all the people who sell cables to be an exception. A huge exception. He stands alone in his honesty toward this business. So don't look to me to put down what he is doing. I am just conflicted that way.

 

[DaveC]

You're funny. NCF 18E costs above $5000 here. I'd would hardly think that money would be motivated for a big poweramp.

How do you propose to do double-blind bypass fast switched tests of it in any case?

Just get a single NCF receptacle, it's $280 USD here. You can install in your wall and plug your power distribution into it vs any other receptacle in your house. You will NOT need to "fast switch", the differences are immediate and obvious. If you're not amazed at the difference I'll be very surprised.

 

[amirm]

Just get a single NCF receptacle, it's $280 USD here. You can install in your wall and plug your power distribution into it vs any other receptacle in your house. You will NOT need to "fast switch", the differences are immediate and obvious. If you're not amazed at the difference I'll be very surprised.

OK, I just ordered one. I sure hope you are right about both of those factors or I would be very grumpy!

I like to see if anyone is willing to try to free exercise I have put forward while you ask us to spend money this way. Or is this a one way street???

 

[CGabriel]

My test has nothing to do with invalidating what Caelin is doing. Nor do I have a reason to doubt the integrity of what he is showing. I believe what he is showing to be correct.

My test is using the same methodology to demonstrate that your enemy on that front is the long feed to your AC socket. By the the time you get through that, you have significantly increased your line to ground impedance. I was very clear in my post about that.

This is quite true. This is why we highly recommend that people imstall a good dedicated line for their entertainment systems when feasible. Ensuring that the inwall wires are over-rated (12-10 gauge), that the conductors are not spliced, that the neutral is not shared with other circuits, that an independent ground wire is used and that a good commercial grade outlet is used. This should be considered a "baseline" for a quality power system.

The key to good power system performance is to ensure that contacts and connection junctions are reliable and secure. You don't have to spend big money, just take reasonable care in the installation. And after doing all that you don't want to degrade the potential capacity of the circuit by using a current limiting commodity power cord. You don't need to spend thousands to get good performance, just get something consciously constructed with good connectors. Or, as some people have suggested (if you have the ability) build your own DIY cable.

 

[treitz3]

Amir, all you want to do is waste our time. I asked you for the test parameters after I accepted the challenge. Then you want me to test myself to confirm something I already know. Then, when I confirm that I can tell a difference, you feel that there would be no reason for you to fly out. That's a waste of my time and quite frankly, anybody else seeing what you wrote. The challenge is on until you say so. Uh-huh. That's not a challenge, that's a cop out followed my a "oh, woe is me, I have to put up all the money".

Well, don't make the challenge unless you are willing to put up the money.

Steve's house is out because of your antics in the recent past. You have no one to blame but yourself for that one.

Tom

 

[DaveC]

OK, I just ordered one. I sure hope you are right about both of those factors or I would be very grumpy!

I like to see if anyone is willing to try to free exercise I have put forward while you ask us to spend money this way. Or is this a one way street???

Do you have a link to the post describing the exercise? I'll look but I do a lot of testing already and have been buried in work lately. Cables I use in my own system are often demos so they change frequently, keeping the setup static for any amount of time probably isn't realistic. Anyways, I do have 2 different and extremely resolving systems to test with, although they share source + preamp.

I think the NCF receptacle makes an unmistakable, massive difference vs a regular/hd/hospital grade unit. I will warn you it may not sound great for some amount of time (you might become a believer in burn-in after this too ), but it'll certainly be different. I think another member here measured a large reduction in noise on his AC line with the NCF, though I don't recall exactly what meter he used. Anyways, people often pay thousands for the improvement a $280 receptacle makes. And, the % of repeat customers is super high... I bet you'll buy more.

I think with AC power it's the setup and connectors that are most important. The AC distribution from service entrance to wall is often sub optimal, especially when running multiple lines. Then, the connections in the molded plugs are sub optimal, as are many of the plugs and receptacles in the system. A heavy duty plug with wire clamps that can take a lot of torque are always much better vs molded plugs. Furutech makes IECs with big wire clamps that are well worth it too. Every single part is audible and the end result of having a high quality power and signal cable system makes all the difference in the world to many people.

 

[amirm]

Do you have a link to the post describing the exercise? I'll look but I do a lot of testing already and have been buried in work lately.

Sure. See http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...d-conditioners&p=441063&viewfull=1#post441063

 

[amirm]

Amir, all you want to do is waste our time. I asked you for the test parameters after I accepted the challenge. Then you want me to test myself to confirm something I already know.

You don't know Jack, I mean Tom. You have never used only your ears to see if you can tell a difference. If all you have to do is move your head to see if there is a good cable or not as you said, then the test will be lightning fast to conduct. Just get a loved one to make the cable switches out of sight. I will even pay them a $50 Amazon gift certificate for their troubles. If you are unwilling to do this then you are wasting my time Tom. And your notion that you trust your ears is worth nothing because you clearly don't.

Then, when I confirm that I can tell a difference, you feel that there would be no reason for you to fly out. That's a waste of my time and quite frankly, anybody else seeing what you wrote. The challenge is on until you say so. Uh-huh. That's not a challenge, that's a cop out followed my a "oh, woe is me, I have to put up all the money".

Well, don't make the challenge unless you are willing to put up the money.

Steve's house is out because of your antics in the recent past. You have no one to blame but yourself for that one.

Tom

Seems like the plot is lost. You do understand that I will be out the cost of travelling even if you are found wrong, don't you? Why would I spend that money? Because it could do some good. And that good comes out of getting someone like Steve to not be able to tell the difference. Just like ddk's comments here, people will take notice. You failing the test? Nobody will care. I will have wasted my time and money generating results that no one cares about.

As to Steve not letting me in his house, I am happy to have him run the test self administered just like I have asked you. If he doesn't want to do it either, then both of you love living in the dark. Neither one of you have lifted a finger to add knowledge or data to this thread. All I hear is animosity and stone throwing. While this thread has been going on, I have bought three cables and a bloody outlet costing me nearly $500. And did some tests using my measurement tools. What finger have you lifted?

 

[DaveC]

Sure. See http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...d-conditioners&p=441063&viewfull=1#post441063

I'm not sure our sonic memory is good enough to pass that test. For some it would probably be passable, but I honestly wouldn't make any bets. I also think that one small part doesn't make or break the system, it's the combination of having clean, unrestricted AC power, proper grounding and high resolution signal wiring throughout that allows a system to perform on a different level.

 

[treitz3]

To Amir....Circular buLLsH!t bro'.

You have never used only your ears to see if you can tell a difference.

I have been blinded and won. Then I was blinded with the rig set up via a remote control controlled behind me with between 20-30 witnesses in the room to debunk what spew you have to promote. If the test was lightning fast, then that would be even easier for a 2 year old to detect given the level of components I am currently at, let alone the level of components I was at during the test.

You made the challenge. I asked for the parameters. You have still not provided the parameters of the test that would end your BS.

Only tests prior too.

This is unacceptable. Put up or shut up.

Tom

 

[audioguy]

What a lovely thread this is. I think I will go elsewhere. A bunch of adults acting like a bunch of small children - over a hobby that is supposedly all about music.

Seriously? Goodness gracious!!!!

 

[treitz3]

Hello and good evening to you sir. It's not like it's my choice. The challenge was presented and the facts are what they are.

Nothing more, nothing less. We all know through history of his posting that......awe, never mind. It is what it is.

Tom

 

[audioguy]

I've read a different version of this novel before. Amir (and maybe a few others) are, for the most part, all about objective evaluation. Most on this forum are not. If there is an ignore function, use it. And why Amir (or others) keep attempting to get those not in their camp to switch is beyond me. Never, ever, ever going to happen. Nor is anyone who leans toward objective evaluation, ever going to switch sides. All wishful thinking. So many digital bits wasted. So many stress hormones secreted. And absolutely nothing positive accomplished. Not one single thing. I just don't get it.

 

[treitz3]

.....there is this little matter of a $10,000.00 challenge presented......

I'm not most but I do trust my ears.

Tom

 

[Nightlord]

Just get a single NCF receptacle, it's $280 USD here. You can install in your wall and plug your power distribution into it vs any other receptacle in your house. You will NOT need to "fast switch", the differences are immediate and obvious. If you're not amazed at the difference I'll be very surprised.

Sorry, I don't understand what "receptacle" is - dictionary doesn't give any good translation for it into Swedish. We were discussing power cables, nothing else. My power distribution for the stereo doesn't "plug into" anything, it, or rather they, go directly to the fuse box.

Of course you need to listen to with/without or before/after and blind so until you get a statistically significant (or not) result. No other way to prove anything. All other methods are prone to placebo. I build my setup to BE good, not one I might get deluded to think is good. Any placebo in effect with me will have no effect on other people. I guess it could effect some if I said "btw, I have done this for the power distribution", but it would still only be a limited set of people it had any effect on. And I would not want to talk gear with a visitor anyway, I want to play and talk music.

 

[NorthStar]

The AC power cord has to be plugged into the AC wall outlet, the wall "receptacle".

• http://www.partsconnexion.com/prod_pdf/FTECH-81015.pdf ($280 USD)
• https://www.amazon.com/Furutech-Ultimate-Nano-Crystal-Rhodium-Plated-Receptacle/dp/B017LTCI5M ($244 USD)

 

[treitz3]

Sorry, I don't understand what "receptacle" is - dictionary doesn't give any good translation for it into Swedish. We were discussing power cables, nothing else. My power distribution for the stereo doesn't "plug into" anything, it, or rather they, go directly to the fuse box.

Of course you need to listen to with/without or before/after and blind so until you get a statistically significant (or not) result. No other way to prove anything. All other methods are prone to placebo. I build my setup to BE good, not one I might get deluded to think is good. Any placebo in effect with me will have no effect on other people. I guess it could effect some if I said "btw, I have done this for the power distribution", but it would still only be a limited set of people it had any effect on. And I would not want to talk gear with a visitor anyway, I want to play and talk music.

What is it about the bass, that it becomes so robust with after-market cords and conditioners?

Your narrative is somewhat lost. It's all about the music and the end result as to hits ones ears.

Tom

 

[Nightlord]

The AC power cord has to be plugged into the AC wall outlet, the wall "receptacle".

• http://www.partsconnexion.com/prod_pdf/FTECH-81015.pdf ($280 USD)
• https://www.amazon.com/Furutech-Ultimate-Nano-Crystal-Rhodium-Plated-Receptacle/dp/B017LTCI5M ($244 USD)

Thanks. Would have called that power outlet. Don't use one, have the power distributer hardwired from the fusebox.

Would be this one for here, I guess:
http://www.furutech.com/2013/02/02/1854/


But based on what was claimed before, that it was most important the closer to the amp you get, then would it not with that reasoning be more efficient to put it as close to the amp as possible with http://www.furutech.com/2015/11/18/12057/ ?