Samsung loses patent suit to Apple

[audioguy]

I was in the computer business for a very long time and started in the 60's. At that time their was IBM and then the "BUNCH " (Burroughs, Univac, NCR, Control Data, and Honeywell). The "mini" manufacturers (DEC, et al) came later. I worked for Control Data and when competing directly against IBM, if IBM wanted the business bad enough, it was quite difficult (not impossible) to be victorious. We would ask our prospects to fly to Minneapolis for a meeting (at their expense and inconvenience) and IBM would pick them up in their Corporate jet. That said, Control Data "owned" the scientific and educational markets. CDC is now out of business and Cray took over the scientific markets. CDC got distracted and diluted their vision - and disappeared.

Over time new platforms began to emerge (like the Mini) and then the PC and soon computing was moving out closer to the user --- and IBM began to lose their grip on the monopoly they had. They could control the IT department but were not so successful at getting to the users. IBM of then and Apple now look a bit alike in many ways. Arrogance/Pride was one of the characteristics of the company and their employees. "We are the best" "We have the best products" "We are the best innovators", "our people are the best" !!!!!

And where is IBM now. Certainly a key player for large mainframe centralized computing functions but the revenues of the companies who connect to (or bypass) those mainframe have grown by leaps and bounds. So when you think of computers you think of HP and Apple and a host of others (for grins, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_computer_system_manufacturers).

There is an Old Testament Bible verse that fits here: Proverbs 16:18 "Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall". Should Apple continue patting itself on the back, someone or some set of circumstances will sneak up on them and they too may fall. In fact I would suggest, they too WILL fall (not go out of business but become less of the market driver they are today). It is only a matter of time.

But in the mean time, I will continue to purchase and use their products

 

[NorthStar]

---Well, just look at RIM, Research In Motion.

Their shareholders, the ones who still remain, how do they feel now?

 

[asiufy]

RIM's case is different. It's not complacency, they're just incompetent, took a number of wrong strategic turns, and didn't react fast enough to the iPhone.


alexandre

 

[NorthStar]

---...Perhaps a 'vision' of things to come for Apple as well?

 

[Keith_W]

Steve Wozniak weighs in: http://www.tweaktown.com/news/25820...he_samsung_patent_verdict_hates_it/index.html

I hate it. I don't think the decision of California will hold. And I don't agree with it - very small things I don't really call that innovative. I wish everybody would just agree to exchange all the patents and everybody can build the best forms they want to use everybody's technologies.

Well said, Steve.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

THis is what I like about discussions forums (fora): The learning, the deabte that have one challenge his views anf in some ways enrich one's life. I was about to buy an iPhone 5, then started asking some questions, becasue of this thread and others.
One thing that bothers me a lot: The iPhone 5 can't handle data and voice at the same time. Just flat out can't. I would like my phone to allow me to talk while discussing an e-mail ... The iPhone 5 can't on the Verizon and Sprint networks. I am not willing to pay AT&T so much more than Sprint or Verizon so for me no deal. Several Android Smartphones can do the multi-tasking, so now comes my search.

I also like Audioguy earlier post. In such hubris lays future falls. I remember a meeting with Lucent years ago when they were, well Lucent and I was trying to have them to help me penetrate my company (We were their Stategic Partner in PBX and Cabling products) in my home Market where there was a great need for Central Ofice and Outside plant products. Their answer was : Lucent moves when Lucent feels it is time to move, almost verbatim ... I lost the opportunity, Alcatel moved and made several tens of millions of dollars on and in the same market... Lucent doesn't exist anymore, they were acquired by Alcatel.

 

[asiufy]

Frantz,

Apparently that's a limitation of the CDMA network you use it on. I use my 4S on GSM networks, and I do that all the time (voice+data).
Do you know for a fact that, if a different phone, on the same CDMA network, will allow you to do voice+data? I'm curious to know that, since we haven't had a CDMA network here for many years now... If that's Apple's own limitation, it's extremely lame. If it's the network's (as I expect it to be), then other phones would suffer from the same limitation...

Oops, it seems it's Apple's lameness in action:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/0...e-and-data-on-the-verizon-or-sprint-iphone-5/

"In some regards, LTE is no different. Voice over LTE (VoLTE) is coming, eventually (the first commercial rollout started last month in South Korea and MetroPCS in parts of the US), but as of right now, there's no way to route a voice call over LTE on either Verizon or Sprint. However, all of Verizon's other 4G phones can connect to the CDMA network, for calls, and the LTE network, for data, simultaneously. This allows concurrent usage of voice and data, albeit over two separate network connections.iPhone 5, however, lacks this ability to connect to the legacy voice network and LTE network simultaneously, forcing the choice: data, or voice, but not both."​

alexandre

 

[FrantzM]

Frantz,

Apparently that's a limitation of the CDMA network you use it on. I use my 4S on GSM networks, and I do that all the time (voice+data).
Do you know for a fact that, if a different phone, on the same CDMA network, will allow you to do voice+data? I'm curious to know that, since we haven't had a CDMA network here for many years now... If that's Apple's own limitation, it's extremely lame. If it's the network's (as I expect it to be), then other phones would suffer from the same limitation...

Oops, it seems it's Apple's lameness in action:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/0...e-and-data-on-the-verizon-or-sprint-iphone-5/

"In some regards, LTE is no different. Voice over LTE (VoLTE) is coming, eventually (the first commercial rollout started last month in South Korea and MetroPCS in parts of the US), but as of right now, there's no way to route a voice call over LTE on either Verizon or Sprint. However, all of Verizon's other 4G phones can connect to the CDMA network, for calls, and the LTE network, for data, simultaneously. This allows concurrent usage of voice and data, albeit over two separate network connections.iPhone 5, however, lacks this ability to connect to the legacy voice network and LTE network simultaneously, forcing the choice: data, or voice, but not both."​

alexandre

There you go!! at least on Verizon (CDMA) and Sprint (GSM) ...

 

[asiufy]

I thought Sprint was CDMA too... ?

 

[FrantzM]

Sorry both are CDMA ...

 

[rblnr]

I switched from AT&T where I could do voice/data simultaneously with my earlier iPhones to Verizon because in my area (NYC/NJ), the service is so much more reliable. Not being able to do voice/date simultaneously hasn't mattered to me, but that's obviously an individual user habit thing. Plans were basically the same price btw -- I've never seen where AT&T is more than Verizon.

The original connector is from 2003, a lifetime ago in tech. So let's say you can put a new one in that's smaller (which creates other benefits in products where space is at a premium), sturdier, faster, and easier to use (fits either way and more positively by early accounts) -- you shouldn't do this because you're stuck on a standard from nearly a decade ago? Apple has a history of moving on from dated connectors/techs -- see optical drive, ethernet jack in laptops, firewire 400/800, etc. Tech moves on. Skate to where the puck's going to be not where it's at.

I'm offended by the $29 price of the adapter, but as details come in on it, there 'may' be more to it than that. It apparently contains a DAC, because the 9 pins of the new connector (vs 30 on the old) only allow for a digital out. The full story isn't out yet, but it appears not to be just a simple adapter. And as for why not use micro-usb -- with 5 pins, it's enough only for charging and syncing. No digital out (which I use on a dock with an iPod in one setup to good effect) and some other functionality would be gone as well. There is a micro-usb adapter coming btw as this is the mandated charging plug in Europe.

Point above is that thusfar, Apple doesn't do blatant stupid. They don't change standards and alienate customers for no reason, or no reason but the small profits the adapter would add up to. Given their history I'll assume this was a fully thought thru decision that was primarily driven by long term customer satisfaction (which equals long term growth/profits), not short term money grabbing which isn't how they've built the company.

And finally, their products just look, feel (the steel and glass 4/4S is one of the finest pieces of industrial design I've ever seen/felt) and simply work better than anybody else's at the moment IMO.

 

[Steve Williams]

They ship next week

I'm ordering the 32Gig in white which is what my 4S is as well

 

[rblnr]

Ordered my 16gig black 5.

 

[Steve Williams]

Having read almost 200 posts in this thread IMO the sides are so well dug in and firmly entrenched in their beliefs that trying to convince one side of the other's position is always futile and for me has become daily fodder.

I agree with Bob that Apple did this new connector for a long term reason and time will tell

For now however I am completely happy in my decision to remain with a new iphone and not switch to droid technology

I really don't care about multitasking voice with data.

And finally, their products just look, feel (the steel and glass 4/4S is one of the finest pieces of industrial design I've ever seen/felt) and simply work better than anybody else's at the moment IMO.

"Right on Mr. Kotter"

 

[Steve Williams]

BTW, IMO one of the simplist but sleekist add-ons for the iphone is the bumper (although priced at $29 which is high) which has saved my iphone countless times when I have inadvertently dropped it

 

[rblnr]

Having read almost 200 posts in this thread IMO the sides are so well dug in and firmly entrenched in their beliefs that trying to convince one side of the other's position is always futile and for me has become daily fodder.

Agreed on the 'dug in' and 'futility'. Must say though I really don't understand the ferocity of the criticism I hear sometimes about Apple.

 

[Steve Williams]

Here is a little tidbit for all you droid fans...

iphone 4s took 22 hours to sell out of their preorders

The iphone5 preorders sold out in one hour last night

I guess people don't care about the new dock

 

[Steve Williams]

Oh and FWIW again Apple's stock is now closing in on $700share (now at $695.91)

 

[NorthStar]

I switched from AT&T where I could do voice/data simultaneously with my earlier iPhones to Verizon because in my area (NYC/NJ), the service is so much more reliable. Not being able to do voice/date simultaneously hasn't mattered to me, but that's obviously an individual user habit thing. Plans were basically the same price btw -- I've never seen where AT&T is more than Verizon.

The original connector is from 2003, a lifetime ago in tech. So let's say you can put a new one in that's smaller (which creates other benefits in products where space is at a premium), sturdier, faster, and easier to use (fits either way and more positively by early accounts) -- you shouldn't do this because you're stuck on a standard from nearly a decade ago? Apple has a history of moving on from dated connectors/techs -- see optical drive, ethernet jack in laptops, firewire 400/800, etc. Tech moves on. Skate to where the puck's going to be not where it's at.

I'm offended by the $29 price of the adapter, but as details come in on it, there 'may' be more to it than that. It apparently contains a DAC, because the 9 pins of the new connector (vs 30 on the old) only allow for a digital out. The full story isn't out yet, but it appears not to be just a simple adapter. And as for why not use micro-usb -- with 5 pins, it's enough only for charging and syncing. No digital out (which I use on a dock with an iPod in one setup to good effect) and some other functionality would be gone as well. There is a micro-usb adapter coming btw as this is the mandated charging plug in Europe.

Point above is that thusfar, Apple doesn't do blatant stupid. They don't change standards and alienate customers for no reason, or no reason but the small profits the adapter would add up to. Given their history I'll assume this was a fully thought thru decision that was primarily driven by long term customer satisfaction (which equals long term growth/profits), not short term money grabbing which isn't how they've built the company.

And finally, their products just look, feel (the steel and glass 4/4S is one of the finest pieces of industrial design I've ever seen/felt) and simply work better than anybody else's at the moment IMO.

-----Apple, with their new iPhone 5, with 4G for light-speed fast web browser, and that "new" digital adaptor with more functions than the "standard" universal USB adaptor/recharger, and with 50 million people buying right from the bat; are they doing the right thing? ...I mean for themselves, their shareholders, their customers (us the users), and the rest of the world?

...And Samsung, what do they want?

 

[Keith_W]

OK guys, it really is time to sell your Apple shares if you have it. Well, maybe wait another couple of months and then sell your Apple shares.

The reason - 75% of Apple's income relies on iOS devices. The remainder is in OSX. That is a lot of eggs in one basket. Compare this with a company like Microsoft, which has strong enterprise links and the lions' share of desktop operating systems, not to mention other revenue streams - home entertainment (Xbox 360, Kinect), Bing, Office, smartphones, and tablets. Or a company like Google, which has Android, Search, Translate, Maps, and Google Plus. Apple's iOS revenue stream is under attack from Android. This is not speculation, it is fact. Android is massively eating into Apple's share. Not to mention Microsoft's new Windows 8, which will be released in a couple of months.

Apple's iOS 6 is already massively behind the competition. In particular, Windows 8 makes it look last generation and dated. Android has been ahead for a couple of years now. The iPhone 5 is underwhelming and has specs reminiscent of a base model Android or Win 8 phone but priced like a flagship phone.

Compared to Microsoft's deep enterprise links, the iPhone is a trinket. And they only release a new one every year. They are at the mercy of the fickle consumer, who are currently abandoning Apple in droves.

For sure, we will see a short term boost in Apple's share price. But the long term fundamentals do not look so good.