Oh my, oh my - Aries Cerat Helene DAC

I can't stay silent - today we received Helene DAC, "baby" DAC from Aries Cerat. What a baby, what a beauty. From the very fist second the sound was sublime, digital rarely gets better than this - in form of Kassandra DAC only probably. I am not saying this lightly, just compare Helene to all the big guns, you would be surprised. Rich, transparent sound, real body of instruments, timbre to die for, as analog as possible, but most importantly, natural music flow, touching your heart and soul. Be warned, after listening you might need to sell some very expensive equipment. But there is solution - you buy Kassandra LE, thus may be less painful.

 

Again, it will also depend on at what volumes you listen to music. At moderate SPL you might be more successful, more likely than at 100 dBC peaks.

100dB C needs (89 dB at 4 ohms is around 86 into 8 ohms…86 1 watt, 89 2 watts, 92, 4 watts, 95 8 watts, 98 16 watts, 101 32 watts) and that is for 1 speaker. Add another and sit 3 meters away and you need about 25 watts to hit 100 dB peaks and peaks are much easier for an amp than average sustained level at that volume. Do you really listen at levels where you get 100dB peaks?

 

Al, stop being insulting and a fool. 75dB is well under 1 watt with most speakers (the Wilson is over 99dB/watt I can imagine) and this amp is making 60 watts. It weighs over 250lbs and has output transformers larger than your whole amp. It is like nothing you are used to.

The sensitivity of the Wilson is specified as 89 dB/Watt, not 99 dB/Watt.

And as usual you make claims about drivability of speakers by SET amps that are not shared by most WBF members who have debated this with you, as clear from a number of past discussions on this forum.

Also your fellow SET enthusiast Bonzo, reasonably so, does not share your optimistic views about speaker drivability by this kind of amps.

 

The sensitivity of the Wilson is specified as 89 dB/Watt, not 99 dB/Watt.

And as usual you make claims about drivability of speakers by SET amps that are not shared by most WBF members who have debated this with you, as clear from a number of past discussions on this forum.

Also your fellow SET enthusiast Bonzo, reasonably so, does not share your optimistic views about speaker drivability by this kind of amps.

I corrected the typo. Also, see my other post. Bonzo has no experience with this kind of amp either.
I make claims based on direct experience, you talk blah blah.

 

Also your fellow SET enthusiast Bonzo, reasonably so, does not share your optimistic views about speaker drivability by this kind of amps.

I understand like for non-audiophiles all audiophiles are guys with big speakers, and for those who don't investigate analog all records and TTs are the same, and your nuance goes so far as to think Brad and I are similar. Brad has for long advocated SETs for almost all speakers including Apogees.

 

I understand like for non-audiophiles all audiophiles are guys with big speakers, and for those who don't investigate analog all records and TTs are the same, and your nuance goes so far as to think Brad and I are similar.

No you are not, also because:

Brad has for long advocated SETs for almost all speakers including Apogees.

Precisely my point. It seems absurd.

 

No you are not, also because:



Precisely my point. It seems absurd.

Setting the record straight because Bonzo misrepresents my positions constantly;
I owned Apogees and heavily experimented with amps and found that for moderate volumes a 20 watt SET worked pretty well. Other experiments with other Apogees and SETs shows they work pretty well because later Apogees had moderate impedance, were more sensitive and were mainly resistive. That said, I used a high power hybrid amp (Sphinx Project 14) on my Apogees and later my electrostats. I only switched over completely to SETs when I got high sensitivity speakers.

The main point is that I own the gear and experiment constantly with different combinations, which leads to discoveries that buck conventional wisdom, like many here peddle…and THAT is the biggest difference between Bonzo and I…I experiment and he lives vicariously through others.

 

Setting the record straight because Bonzo misrepresents my positions constantly;
I owned Apogees and heavily experimented with amps and found that for moderate volumes a 20 watt SET worked pretty well. Other experiments with other Apogees and SETs shows they work pretty well because later Apogees had moderate impedance, were more sensitive and were mainly resistive. That said, I used a high power hybrid amp (Sphinx Project 14) on my Apogees and later my electrostats. I only switched over completely to SETs when I got high sensitivity speakers.

The main point is that I own the gear and experiment constantly with different combinations, which leads to discoveries that buck conventional wisdom, like many here peddle…and THAT is the biggest difference between Bonzo and I…I experiment and he lives vicariously through others.

Your experiments are under powering speakers too large for your room. Two negatives counter cancel each other I guess

 

Judging Aries Cerat on specs alone is lazy and uninformed. I don't understand why people comment on things they have no experience with. This is a new era of performance. Brands like Aries Cerat & Pink Faun are young up and coming brands are taking audio performance to places they've never been before. The absolute cutting edge. Leaving so called standards and norms of the past in the dust.

I recently did a hifi show and drove planar ribbon speakers with 35 Aries Cerat watts and the result was the best sound of the show. A stunning sound.

 

Sound levels of 75 dB then?

Hi Al,

I have had in the past the pleasure of having a Diana Forte in my main listening room for several months and as Purasound says it is a monster, especially with AC link fitted seriously it drives speakers more like it is a high capacity 600w amp rather than its announced 60W, hearing is knowing and unless one hears a Diana Forte in action at volume then one will never truly know what one delivers.

But driving hard to drive speakers is only one of its strengths, it adds a relaxed musicality to a system that I have not experienced with any other amp and I have lived with various decent brands of amps in the same room including CH and AudioNet to name two.

One of the things I have come to know over the years in hifi is while measurements have their place and definite use, in most cases especially with high end components, they mean very little and are usually quoted by people who actually have never heard the components they are referring to whether it is with praise or ridicule.
People who have heard a component speak about the listening experience and seldom refer to measurements, those who have an opinion and have not had the listening experience quote measurements to back up their opinion.

If you get a chance have a listen to a system with a Forte in place I bet your jaw drops as mine did when I first bolted it in.

cheers,
Terry

 

Hi All,

Today I have connected my Helene dac to Dan D'Agostino momentum preamp and S350 power amp combo. There is severe distortion in no gain and -6db gain setting. I tried with Kassandra II and the distortion is more evident in -6db gain setting. Any idea what is the reason for the distortion. The source is LDMS and the speakers are Focal Kanta 2.

 

Just my two cents - i would guess that AC is overdriving Agostino preamp hence distorsion..

 

THanks of

Just my two cents - i would guess that AC is overdriving Agostino preamp hence distorsion..

Thanks for the reply. Is there any way to avoid this.

 

THanks of

Thanks for the reply. Is there any way to avoid this.

Do you have a passive preamp or another active preamp to try? It can only overload the preamp if the volume attenuator comes after the gain stages. Most preamps have the attenuation before the gain stage but not all preamps do it like that.

 

@sajihassan

Aries Cerat dacs have more voltage output than normal and if the gain stages of the preamp are prior to the volume attenuator clipping can occur. High gain preamps (not sure what you preamp is) can also clip the output stage when driven by high voltages. If the gain of your preamp can be adjusted (some D'Agostinos can be I think) then select the lowest gain and see if the problem is input or output of the preamp (could be both).

 

Hi All,

Today I have connected my Helene dac to Dan D'Agostino momentum preamp and S350 power amp combo. There is severe distortion in no gain and -6db gain setting. I tried with Kassandra II and the distortion is more evident in -6db gain setting. Any idea what is the reason for the distortion. The source is LDMS and the speakers are Focal Kanta 2.

Hi
You are overloading the input stage (we know that the input stage precedes the attenuation, and the max input spec is lower than the dac output).

 

Shure A15AS

Shure A15AS, Dämpfungsglied/Signalabschwächer, schaltbar -15/-20/-25 dB, Adapter mit XLR male/female

www.thomann.de

Studio quality that helps try it out

 

Thanks a lot guys for your support. So the input voltage of Momentum hd preamp is not matching with Aries carat dacs. Can anybody advice the above adapter works for the Aries carat dacs and the D'agostino preamp. since returning the adapter is not possible from my location.

 

0db output 10 volt is~ +26dbU if you set the signal attenuator to -15dB, you'll get approximately +9dBU, or ~2.5 volts. Then i think you can finely adjust the volume while listening to music at night. if I haven't miscalculated on speed..

 

0db output 10 volt is~ +26dbU if you set the signal attenuator to -15dB, you'll get approximately +9dBU, or ~2.5 volts. Then i think you can finely adjust the volume while listening to music at night. if I haven't miscalculated on speed..

Thanks. Will it affect the sound quality or increase the noise floor. I was experiencing distortion even in low noise.

 

Thanks. Will it affect the sound quality or increase the noise floor. I was experiencing distortion even in low noise.

What can I say? The attenuators are mainly used for microphones in the studio. There's no alternative unless you use a different output transformer with a different ratio in the DAC. They're not expensive, so try them out. Just for your information, preamps usually have an input sensitivity of around 0.7 volts, so around 2.5 volts is no problem with noise.