What are the Top Horn Speakers in the World Today? Vox Olympian vs Avantgarde Trio vs ???

And/or the room. Room distortions can be horrible and create an effect of harshness and hardness (they also sometimes literally can sound like amplifier clipping). In my experience, room distortions are a huge and vastly underestimated problem, and a major impediment to both enjoyable and realistic sound. Naturally, the problem is greatest at higher SPL.
If you live in a bare room or a glass house, that could be the case. Joke ;)
but in a normally furnished room, I haven't experienced any interference in the 2-4 kHz range. The reverb time there is easy to handle. I've already measured a few rooms; it would be rare, like winning in the lottery.
It only becomes difficult at 250hz and below because overtones can become heavily smeared.

P.S
At 120 dB sound pressure, it becomes difficult everywhere; at 130 dB, even your speaking voice becomes colured. Car HiFi experience
 
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One of the main reasons why one loudspeaker feels fatiguing after 60 minutes while another still sounds relaxed after six hours is, imo relatively straightforward. The human brain must assemble acoustic information, as mixed by the sound engineer, into a coherent soundstage in fractions of a second. This soundstage includes the spatial arrangement of instruments, such as drums behind the singer, bass on the left, or backing vocals on the right. This reconstruction becomes increasingly difficult the more reflections occur from walls, ceilings, or floors.

The brain’s task is significantly easier when fewer reflections are present or – to return to the topic of horns – when the proportion of direct sound increases. Conventional loudspeakers typically have a direct sound share of about 2-3%, while electrostatic speakers achieve only around 0.6 to 1.5% under usual room conditions.
With a direct sound share of approximately 30% or more, as found in perfectly tuned horn loudspeaker desigs, the brain has less work to do in processing the soundstage. As a result, the listener perceives the sound as more pleasant, especially during extended listening sessions. This is one of the main reasons why people who have experienced a perfectly tuned horn loudspeaker system often describe its sound as having a unique sense of ease and clarity.

Of course, the reasons you mentioned are also entirely correct.“

Don't worry, with a well set up cone speaker system in a properly adjusted room the processing of the soundstage by the listener occurs with natural ease as well..
 
If you live in a bare room or a glass house, that could be the case. Joke ;)
but in a normally furnished room, I haven't experienced any interference in the 2-4 kHz range. The reverb time there is easy to handle. I've already measured a few rooms; it would be rare, like winning in the lottery.
It only becomes difficult at 250hz and below because overtones can become heavily smeared.

This is not about reverb time but nasty uncontrolled short-distance reflections.

Music can sound natural at diverse reverb times.
 
When Styrling Trayle properly positioned the speakers they forget the crossover was 6db or 24db.
How many of Stirling set up systems have you heard? Just asking because I have heard three.
 
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one illogical trait of the Vox Olympian is the varying dispersion patterns of the different horns

This is the key. It is not that it has non horn loading issue, it is the varying dispersion issue.
 
This is not about reverb time but nasty uncontrolled short-distance reflections.

Music can sound natural at diverse reverb times.
Its all about reverb time,you can tune a room so dry (control room, recording studio) that you only hear the direct sound of the speaker. This sounds terrible in the long run, but perfect for tuning a recording. Therefore, it makes no sense to listen like this at home. Therefore, only use subtle room acoustic measures where interference occurs.
A good room measurement brings more than all the expensive hi-fi equipment in my opinion.Even with cheap devices it will sound better in the end.
 
Even small time DIY people do a lot of modelling, they start with hornresp, then go to CAD when they are dreaming big, and use measurement techniques. There are extremely few who get it to sound anywhere good. If you find one, you should offer him for his finished product or copy him exact and pay him to come over and finish final tuning after install.
That’s why Romy has always praised Cessaro on paper, saying that in terms of structure and time alignment they did things properly and also used very expensive drivers, but in his view, all of that still doesn’t automatically guarantee good sound, and he has never actually heard Cessaro himself to give a final judgment. In fact, it’s possible for another brand that hasn’t fully addressed horn time alignment and even uses relatively inexpensive drivers to achieve a more convincing sound than Cessaro, simply because the overall driver integration and voicing were executed better.
 
How many of Stirling set up systems have you heard? Just asking because I have heard three.
do you have an audio system in your home?

Did you place your speakers around the room?

Did stirling trayle placed your speakers at your home?

You listen to many wilson speakers at different places and finally your conclusion is “sasha 2 is better than WAMM wrote by king kedar LOL”. It is funny you think I should trust your conclusion about speaker placement of Stirling Trayle.
 
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That’s why Romy has always praised Cessaro on paper, saying that in terms of structure and time alignment they did things properly and also used very expensive drivers, but in his view, all of that still doesn’t automatically guarantee good sound, and he has never actually heard Cessaro himself to give a final judgment. In fact, it’s possible for another brand that hasn’t fully addressed horn time alignment and even uses relatively inexpensive drivers to achieve a more convincing sound than Cessaro, simply because the overall driver integration and voicing were executed better.
Why you do not show your system photos?
 
I am sure who you are (Mr. Vahid Sharafi from Tehran) and you try to hide yourself and for this reason you do not share your playback picture.

WBF admin can tell me about your ip address.

You know me and you read my weblog (www.hifi.ir) for many years so you know I wrote about ASR/Vitus around 2007 and did not changed my opinions.

https://www.hifi.ir/2008/10/vitus-audio-in-iran/
No, I’ve never read that blog you mentioned. I’ve only seen your posts on Audiophile Style, and they caught my attention because they were so different from the usual newbie comments, deeper and more thoughtful, rooted in the philosophy of Jim Smith and Romy. It’s a pity that marketing temptation eventually made you change your approach.
As I said before I believe some cone speakers (TAD R1 , Gobel Majestic Wilson WAMM & Alexandria) are close to horns and Romy also believes old big wilsons are very close to horns dynamics.

If you read Romy post you find his opinion is against you.
Romy believes old big Wilsons are as dynamic as his 109db horn.
Read here : http://goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=3&postID=21493


the biggest Wilsons are the only one mid-sensitively direct radiation know to me speaker that do not compress sound (if driver with proper amplification). At least I, with my DSET driven, nearfiled operating, 109dB sensitive dynamic-spoiled listening habits recognized no dymick problems when I was listening Grand Slam or Alexandria. I have no idea how they did it….

Romy the Cat”


I believe some cone speakers are very dynamic and the “efficiency” is not necessary condition for “dynamics”. I believe not all horns are better than cone speakers, most modern horns like your favorite Avantgarde are very different sounding to vintage horns (like WE horns). If you think using tube amplification can solve the problem of Avantgarde horns then you are in the wrong way.

Not all horns are better than cones, not all cone speakers are dead sounding.
Someone who has gone against Romy’s path, knowing that he considers the 4th-order crossover the death of music, should not be quoting him anymore. If Romy ever praised Wilson, it was for the first-generation Grand SLAMM, which truly delivered dynamics, unlike the current models such as the XVX or the WAMM.

I heard Avantgarde on SET at Mike’s, no issues at all. The only problem? You just don’t want to leave once you start listening.
Like a internet robot You just copy/paste and share theories that are popular but meaningless.
Some truths are hard for you to accept, and since you don’t have an answer for them, you tend to brush them off as copy-paste.
You do not know.

Mike (Audio federation) was never distributor of Avantgarde. Mike was distributor of Acapella
So you really think that Mike you know is the one and only dealer in the whole US? lol
I meant Mike Bovaird and Suncoast Audio, which used to be Avantgarde’s representatives in Florida.
 
do you have an audio system in your home?

Did you place your speakers around the room?

Did stirling trayle placed your speakers at your home?

You listen to many wilson speakers at different places and finally your conclusion is “sasha 2 is better than WAMM wrote by king kedar LOL”. It is funny you think I should trust your conclusion about speaker placement of Stirling Trayle.
Ok, so you heard none but you are still quoting him, similarly to quoting David, Romy, and Roy without understanding what they do, having heard their systems or components. As you said on shutter thread, Lamm has the best bass but you have never heard it

BTW, yes I had a laser pointer for setting up my Martin Logans and verity, and leveller, when I realised I was just another silly audiophile thinking that if my system sound changes from previous day I have made progress. Also had some dealers claiming to be experts who “adjusted” things
 
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No, I’ve never read that blog you mentioned. I’ve only seen your posts on Audiophile Style, and they caught my attention because they were so different from the usual newbie comments, deeper and more thoughtful, rooted in the philosophy of Jim Smith and Romy. It’s a pity that marketing temptation eventually made you change your approach.

Someone who has gone against Romy’s path, knowing that he considers the 4th-order crossover the death of music, should not be quoting him anymore. If Romy ever praised Wilson, it was for the first-generation Grand SLAMM, which truly delivered dynamics, unlike the current models such as the XVX or the WAMM.

I heard Avantgarde on SET at Mike’s, no issues at all. The only problem? You just don’t want to leave once you start listening.

Some truths are hard for you to accept, and since you don’t have an answer for them, you tend to brush them off as copy-paste.

So you really think that Mike you know is the one and only dealer in the whole US? lol
I meant Mike Bovaird and Suncoast Audio, which used to be Avantgarde’s representatives in Florida.
Why you do not share your playback photos?


It seems you afraid all see the trust

Do not change the Romy posts by your theories , he is not here to answer.
 
Exactly, those who think 6db crossover is better than 24db never understand the main distortion of sound is speaker room interaction.

When Styrling Trayle properly positioned the speakers they forget the crossover was 6db or 24db.

There are many non-sense debates in this forum about devices specifications. Horn vs cone, 6db vs higher order, …
The main problem of every audio playback is ac power quality, speaker position (room speaker interaction) , amplifier speaker matching and quality of source (both records and transport/turntable) but those are judging speakers by the crossover slop LOL

Gryphon is the king of good specification, sealed box, linear phase crossover, class A amplifier. Zero feedback, … line array bass and midrange, dapolito … but the sound is dead.

Those specifications all are marketing, listen without any pre judgments in proper controlled condition
And those favoring 24 over 6db has never heard proper one voice coherency for life like jump and realism. Selecting drivers with excessive out of bandwidth distortion is a no no with 6db crossovers. Its why exotic diaphragms , ceramic etc work best with 24db slopes and multi way to help with the handoff…
 
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Perfect time alignment in horn systems is, of course, only achievable through impulse measurements. Without addressing group delay, it simply doesn’t work. But even if this is done, the alignment changes again as soon as the listening position shifts. For example, someone sitting just 10 cm higher than another listener will automatically experience a different time alignment.
That said, this effect only really becomes significant at crossover frequencies above 10 kHz, as the wavelength gets shorter and shorter. Alternatively, the “sweet spot” can be enlarged through a three-dimensional calibration, which helps reduce the negative influences.


Or, one can simply enjoy the music and give a shit about the perfect phase.
There’s perfect phase and then there’s absolute phase …!

:)
 
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Ok, so you heard none but you are still quoting him, similarly to quoting David, Romy, and Roy without understanding what they do, having heard their systems or components. As you said on shutter thread, Lamm has the best bass but you have never heard it

BTW, yes I had a laser pointer for setting up my Martin Logans and verity, and leveller, when I realised I was just another silly audiophile thinking that if my system sound changes from previous day I have made progress. Also had some dealers claiming to be experts who “adjusted” things

I like Kondo, Romy and David both do not like kondo, there are many examples like this so my ideas are mine not copy/paste of Romy.

The problem is you listen to systems and judge without any deep analysis so the result is awful like this :

“sasha 2 is better than WAMM”

Why you try to attack others when you even do not know simple things?!!
 
Why you do not share your playback photos?


It seems you afraid all see the trust

Do not change the Romy posts by your theories , he is not here to answer.
Just like you didn’t want to post a video of your system when Bonzo asked, I don’t really want to post a pic of mine either lol.

No, in fact you’re trying to twist Romy’s views, saying that since he liked the big Wilsons he must also like the new models such as the XVX and the WAMM, while that’s not the case.
 
And those favoring 24 over 6db has never heard proper one voice coherency for life like jump and realism. Selecting drivers with excessive out of bandwidth distortion is a no no with 6db crossovers. Its why exotic diaphragms , ceramic etc work best with 24db slopes and multi way to help with the handoff…

I do not say 6db is not good or 24db is good, I said judging a speaker or an amplifier or a DAC by looking at specification is wrong.

If you want judge WAMM , Majestic, R1, Aries Crates vs Living Voice vs Avantgarde you should go and listen to those speakers in proper condition.

when you have good sound it is not important the DAC is r-2r or not
 
Just like you didn’t want to post a video of your system when Bonzo asked, I don’t really want to post a pic of mine either lol.

No, in fact you’re trying to twist Romy’s views, saying that since he liked the big Wilsons he must also like the new models such as the XVX and the WAMM, while that’s not the case.
(personal insult removed) Fake members hide their real face.

As Romy said before only morons judge the sound by video.

Me and Romy never said xvx and new wilsons are dynamic, I wrote here new wilsons are 7db less efficient.

Sorry for you
 
Okay, gentlemen. This has gone on long enough. None of this has to do with the thread topic and we need to lighten the discourse here. Stop getting personal in your responses and please, stick to the topic at hand.

Any further off topic posts will simply be deleted. Now back to the discussion about the top horns in the world today...

If repeated off topic posts persist? The thread will be closed, as this kind of bickering does not reflect well upon the WBF, nor does it fit in with the goals of the forum to have a friendly place where everyone shares ideas and information without the level of bickering and angst that other forums tend to create.

Tom
 
Total wrong

Nobody in this world can speak about relation of specifications and our brain system fatigue
I recommend checking out Sengpiel Audio’s resources. They offer a wealth of knowledge from experts who have likely forgotten more in their lifetimes than most of us will ever learn. It’s a great place to deepen your understanding.


Best regards,
S
 

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