Van Zyl BB10 Horn Subwoofer

[Kingrex]

I received and installed my new horn sub. Right off, holy cow. Very nice.
The sub is pretty good size for using a 10" driver. The sub sits 19.5 inches from the front wall, pressed up tight to the side wall. The mouth is 19.5 inch wide and tall. The mouth is facing the front wall which effectively becomes part of the horn.

The plate amp is remote located. It came with a very long flat speaker cable. This, along with my 10 foot interconnects allows me to sit in my chair with the amp in hand and start dialing the crossover, volume, phase and EQ. So far I have fiddled with the knobs by ear. I have a ways to go to complete setup.

Having a sub really enhances my playback. I was rolling off pretty hard from 50 hertz down. At the moment I have the sub at 83 hertz with a 16* phase angle and 12 db slope. I just loaded Audio Tools software. I will work with Johan remotely to dial it toghter.

 

[morricab]

I received and installed my new horn sub. Right off, holy cow. Very nice.
The sub is pretty good size for using a 10" driver. The sub sits 19.5 inches from the front wall, pressed up tight to the side wall. The mouth is 19.5 inch wide and tall. The mouth is facing the front wall which effectively becomes part of the horn.

The plate amp is remote located. It came with a very long flat speaker cable. This, along with my 10 foot interconnects allows me to sit in my chair with the amp in hand and start dialing the crossover, volume, phase and EQ. So far I have fiddled with the knobs by ear. I have a ways to go to complete setup.

Having a sub really enhances my playback. I was rolling off pretty hard from 50 hertz down. At the moment I have the sub at 83 hertz with a 16* phase angle and 12 db slope. I just loaded Audio Tools software. I will work with Johan remotely to dial it toghter.

Why don’t you blend it to the measured in room roll off?

 

[Kingrex]

I have to measure the room. By ear, its more enjoyable crosses over a little higher. I have the phase at 0 now. The sub and main speakers are both 7.5 feet from my head. Sub is behind me.

I am likeing maybe more bass than a technically correct audiophile might like. But Im also learning and tweaking a little each day. Although the tweak is leass and less. I'm pretty darn satisfied as is.

For a moment I thought about getting a second one. But a single is super easy to set up and fills the room.

My perception is a horn sub is unlike a standard REL, JBL, SVS. There is 0 boom. No Poof. No Chugging. Just a more complete and balanced frequency spectrum. I don't hear the sub now. Not unless I unplug the interconnect. Then I immediately miss it and plug it back in. I am actually craving time to sit in the room and listrn. Something that was alluding me for a while. I would never be without this sub.

If I got anothet, I might go for the 12 inch that reaches down to 22 hertz or so. Really fill in the bottom. I did not realize how much I was missing in the past. Therr is a ton of music down low.

 

[morricab]

I have to measure the room. By ear, its more enjoyable crosses over a little higher. I have the phase at 0 now. The sub and main speakers are both 7.5 feet from my head. Sub is behind me.

I am likeing maybe more bass than a technically correct audiophile might like. But Im also learning and tweaking a little each day. Although the tweak is leass and less. I'm pretty darn satisfied as is.

For a moment I thought about getting a second one. But a single is super easy to set up and fills the room.

My perception is a horn sub is unlike a standard REL, JBL, SVS. There is 0 boom. No Poof. No Chugging. Just a more complete and balanced frequency spectrum. I don't hear the sub now. Not unless I unplug the interconnect. Then I immediately miss it and plug it back in. I am actually craving time to sit in the room and listrn. Something that was alluding me for a while. I would never be without this sub.

If I got anothet, I might go for the 12 inch that reaches down to 22 hertz or so. Really fill in the bottom. I did not realize how much I was missing in the past. Therr is a ton of music down low.

I personally think horn bass is superior in the kind of bass produced not just amount for a given sized driver. The horn does the work…

 

[Legolas]

I need no convincing using a sub (or 2). It an all about making it fit the image, not take over, so you don't 'notice' it, until you switch it off.

I have conventional subs in use with my PAPs, but am interested in GR Researches OB subs. Only thing putting me off is the warning on his website about hum on 220 voltage. I know OCD Mikey loves them.

Rex, can you post pics of your sub?

Yes there is a lot of info down low, some tracks are not right without it. For example Pink Floyd: Welcome to the Machine. Without that thunderous rumbling that track looses it's meaning IMO.

I have mine Dailed in at 45hz so quite low. My Quintet15 in room are getting to 35hz then roll off. I found the toe in is crucial to ho much bass you get from them. Tiny amounts are like a volume control on the bass.

Goos luck and let us know how you get on Rex.

 

[LL21]

I have to measure the room. By ear, its more enjoyable crosses over a little higher. I have the phase at 0 now. The sub and main speakers are both 7.5 feet from my head. Sub is behind me.

I am likeing maybe more bass than a technically correct audiophile might like. But Im also learning and tweaking a little each day. Although the tweak is leass and less. I'm pretty darn satisfied as is.

For a moment I thought about getting a second one. But a single is super easy to set up and fills the room.

My perception is a horn sub is unlike a standard REL, JBL, SVS. There is 0 boom. No Poof. No Chugging. Just a more complete and balanced frequency spectrum. I don't hear the sub now. Not unless I unplug the interconnect. Then I immediately miss it and plug it back in. I am actually craving time to sit in the room and listrn. Something that was alluding me for a while. I would never be without this sub.

If I got anothet, I might go for the 12 inch that reaches down to 22 hertz or so. Really fill in the bottom. I did not realize how much I was missing in the past. Therr is a ton of music down low.

Fantastic news and will have to read up on this one.

 

[Kingrex]

Kind of dark out for good pictures.

 

[Audiohertz2]

I have to measure the room. By ear, its more enjoyable crosses over a little higher. I have the phase at 0 now. The sub and main speakers are both 7.5 feet from my head. Sub is behind me.

I am likeing maybe more bass than a technically correct audiophile might like. But Im also learning and tweaking a little each day. Although the tweak is leass and less. I'm pretty darn satisfied as is.

For a moment I thought about getting a second one. But a single is super easy to set up and fills the room.

My perception is a horn sub is unlike a standard REL, JBL, SVS. There is 0 boom. No Poof. No Chugging. Just a more complete and balanced frequency spectrum. I don't hear the sub now. Not unless I unplug the interconnect. Then I immediately miss it and plug it back in. I am actually craving time to sit in the room and listrn. Something that was alluding me for a while. I would never be without this sub.

If I got anothet, I might go for the 12 inch that reaches down to 22 hertz or so. Really fill in the bottom. I did not realize how much I was missing in the past. Therr is a ton of music down low.

70 or so is a good handoff freq , as you go lower and lower it gets really difficult to have good integration and power , so at 50, or lower for eg the notes will tend to sound disjointed and unnatural ..!

Great on movies thou …..!

 

[Audiohertz2]

Kind of dark out for good pictures.

How is this a Horn Sub ? Any pics of the back ..?

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

How is this a Horn Sub ? Any pics of the back ..?

folded and backloaded?...-3dB 48Hz acc to their website

https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/1aa26123-f968-42e2-9e72-e2878f8ad23d/downloads/fbbadab2-2ba1-46a7-818a-c3cafea0da45/BB-10%20Plan.pdf?ver=1746563083533

 

[DasguteOhr]

folded and backloaded?...-3dB 48Hz acc to their website

https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/1aa26123-f968-42e2-9e72-e2878f8ad23d/downloads/fbbadab2-2ba1-46a7-818a-c3cafea0da45/BB-10%20Plan.pdf?ver=1746563083533

48hz really?, you get 2x 16" 421 altec - 3db 26hz in open back onken to rock your home, then put a 8" siemens field coil and fostex t 900 on it. Then go shocked your audio friends.
They will sit there with their mouths open and no longer understand the world.

 

[Kingrex]

48hz really?, you get 2x 16" 421 altec - 3db 26hz in open back onken to rock your home, then put a 8" siemens field coil and fostex t 900 on it. Then go shocked your audio friends.
They will sit there with their mouths open and no longer understand the world.

Onken looks like a sealed box. Like this.
Took this guy years to get the crossover complete. Spent many thousands on the crossover. Very good sounding.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Onken looks like a sealed box. Like this.
Took this guy years to get the crossover complete. Spent many thousands on the crossover. Very good sounding.

When its sealed close the both side midlle ports of the onken then it plays 7-8 hz deeper. The klangfilm fieldcoil runs without xover i think from 150hz- 12khz in that small baffle( rolloff) when want more airy sound put fostex t900 horntweeter cross it at 9- 10khz. I think he have open that back complete like a open baffle. I heard a simlar constrution sounds amazing.
then you need only a xover for jbl bass that's how I would do it.
P.S you can cross saba greencone tweeter with fieldcoil too, sounds amazing more oldschool

 

[Kingrex]

you get 2x 16" 421 altec - 3db 26hz in open back onken to rock your home,

Are you saying, one pf those altec in a open baffle with wings on the side play down to 26 hertz. Or do you need the whole Onken ported cabinet. Or a sealed box that would be around what? 5 cubic feet space inside.

Making a woofer box is more difficult than throwing together 6 pieces of wood. The better ones I have seen are a layer of 1.25 inch high density particleboard. Then a 3/4 inch layer of quality plywood glued over the top. Internal bracing. Caulking, damping material. And a square box is a failure. Usually their is a shape that not a basic cube or rectangle that eliminates standing waves. Or the interior has precision cut corners and side pieces to make the interior more round.

When your all done, you could have bought a SVS with 16 inch driver and be done for less than the parts to make your own. And it will probably sound like that SVS too. Which wasn't a sound I was seeking. I had REL and Velodyn at my house. I'm much happier with BB10.

I agree, the spec does not read great. Lower hertz would be better. As is, I do hear a whole lot more power and low register information. If I had a Wilson and D'agostino system, this may not be the best option. Its designed to work with horns and it works great with my open baffle.

If I go for a second sub with deeper reach, I will look at the Van Zyl, 12 inch model. Or I would try a Altec driver in a open baffle. Thats easy to make.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Are you saying, one pf those altec in a open baffle with wings on the side play down to 26 hertz. Or do you need the whole Onken ported cabinet. Or a sealed box that would be around what? 5 cubic feet space inside.

With altec must be ported, I have to say I made a mistake. In the video, I thought they were Altec 421s, but they weren't. They were Heco OL 410 bass drivers. They look totally similar diffrent qts valvue...sorry
Altec



Heco ol410

Making a woofer box is more difficult than throwing together 6 pieces of wood. The better ones I have seen are a layer of 1.25 inch high density particleboard. Then a 3/4 inch layer of quality plywood glued over the top. Internal bracing. Caulking, damping material. And a square box is a failure. Usually their is a shape that not a basic cube or rectangle that eliminates standing waves. Or the interior has precision cut corners and side pieces to make the interior more round.

Look at this when you want a onken bass build quality is high with the correct driver that thing goes deep.

Speaker Cabinet #1086 --- 200 liter Onken Bass Cabinet Speaker Plans

Construction Plans for a 200 liter onken style bass cabinet utilizing the Eminence Kappa Pro-15LF-2 15" Cast Frame Driver. Power Handling: 600 watts Frequency Response: 30Hz - 200Hz Sensitivity: 95dB Maximum SPL: 120dB@34Hz (Requires 500 watts) The Eminence Specification Sheet can be...

josephcrowe.com

If I go for a second sub with deeper reach, I will look at the Van Zyl, 12 inch model. Or I would try a Altec driver in a open baffle. Thats easy to make.

Try first the side wings before you spend much money.

 

[morricab]

With altec must be ported, I have to say I made a mistake. In the video, I thought they were Altec 421s, but they weren't. They were Heco OL 410 bass drivers. They look totally similar diffrent qts valvue...sorry
Altec

View attachment 154795

Heco ol410

View attachment 154796

Look at this when you want a onken bass build quality is high with the correct driver that thing goes deep.

Speaker Cabinet #1086 --- 200 liter Onken Bass Cabinet Speaker Plans

Construction Plans for a 200 liter onken style bass cabinet utilizing the Eminence Kappa Pro-15LF-2 15" Cast Frame Driver. Power Handling: 600 watts Frequency Response: 30Hz - 200Hz Sensitivity: 95dB Maximum SPL: 120dB@34Hz (Requires 500 watts) The Eminence Specification Sheet can be...

josephcrowe.com

Try first the side wings before you spend much money.

I have never heard an Onken box deliver the kind of bass promised by the concept…perhaps they were all bad builds but heard quite a few now and always seem quite bass shy. In contrast, I have consistently impressed with the bass quality and quantity from TQWT designs.

 

[DasguteOhr]

I have never heard an Onken box deliver the kind of bass promised by the concept…perhaps they were all bad builds but heard quite a few now and always seem quite bass shy. In contrast, I have consistently impressed with the bass quality and quantity from TQWT designs.

I've often had similar experiences. I once had a three-way horn with it. I experimented a lot with it, but with two ports closed with the insulation, it was significantly better. But the real improvement comes from extending the sound path internally and adding some boards.

 

[Kingrex]

I tried a couple quick wings last night. They were too tall. Boards from a armoire. They were a bit tall and extended half way up the coax. It had a dramatic affect on soundstage. Chopped it out. I did not notice any added bass. Very rudimentary. I need to take a better try. It was just parts sitting around.

 

[Robh3606]

There is no reason to build an Onken except maybe from nostalgia or a cosmetic point of view. Just build a standard well tuned reflex box and save on materials and weight.

Rob

 

[DasguteOhr]

I tried a couple quick wings last night. They were too tall. Boards from a armoire. They were a bit tall and extended half way up the coax. It had a dramatic affect on soundstage. Chopped it out. I did not notice any added bass. Very rudimentary. I need to take a better try. It was just parts sitting around.

During the test, the subwoofer was switched off.? Clearly, if the side wings limit the angle of the rearward sound of the coax.
Tell me, can you change the configuration of the elements? Are there holes in the frame then you put the coax on top? Then you could use the side wings for both bass drivers more effectively
Exsample
I could imagine that the standard frame and you can use other mounting holes for other driver configurations.