Sonus Faber Aida vs. Wilson XLF (with the MBL 101 Extreme thrown-in for fun)

[microstrip]

(...) It does seem however that audiophiles are often distracted by small things that are not nearly as important as basic fundamentals such as frequency response. For me, I am comfortable talking about the relative impact and sonic merits of that stuff only after the fundamentals are in place and done correctly. Once we get the big stuff out of the way, I think its then fair to delve deeply in to the analytics that others have asked for. Until then, as in the systems here, there are far bigger fish to fry.
Marty

Marty,

I agree with you so much that I have two systems to measure FR in my room - first thing I do as soon as a pair of new speakers lands there are a few measurements to help placing them.

But, I do not hide it, I participate in audio forums to learn but also for fun and enjoyment. And audiophiles (and engineers as I say all the time) are a curious and detail oriented species - it is why I asked for the details. May be you did not manage to listen in the best conditions, but I can assume that the shop owner choose an adequate cable for your auditions.

BTW, I loved to read about your hole in the wall trim for the speaker cables - my Atma-sphere MA2s also were located in a lateral room, all the wiring going through three 2" holes.

 

[Steve Williams]

Alf

honestly you're way out of line. Any dealer, any where would do the same thing and consider this a potential customer but so also word of mouth such as this can go a long way

I have had only kind things to say about Mike. His business seems to be international and he is one of the survivors in the brick and mortar stores we all used to know but are rapidly fading. I have never said anything negative in this thread or elsewhere about Mike's electronics. Those who know me, know I just like tubes but that doesn't mean that there isn't something different that I also like. Frankly I went to hear these two speakers and I did say my ears perked up when the switch was made to the 2301. From the get go of this thread the limitations were brought forth by the owner to Marty and I. Again the room acoustics had been delivered but found to be of the wrong material and had to be returned to the factory. Had that not occurred I would venture to say that Marty and I would have had different to say.

So once again ALF, you're just somewhat out of line

 

[Steve Williams]

There are some other very interesting things about the Aida that I didn't know until my visit to Scottsdale and could play with the speaker but let me quote Mike..... "the Aida can be tweaked to many different configurations" (they can be biwired, triwired, biamped, triamped etc) as well as being able to change the sound to your personal satisfaction with some trim switches in the rear which controlled the ambient sound which could be made to fire either inward or outward. Also there was control of the upper and lower drivers. So truly this speaker could be powered in countless different configurations

What Mike has done and honestly if I had known that about the speakers I would have asked that they be powered exactly that way which is biamped with SS 1.2Kw driving the bottom and the 2301 driving the mid and upper.

I bet that would have been a wonderful sound. I am sorry that I missed that one because if I had known I would have wanted to hear the speakers exactly that way. Bear in mind that you cannot do any of this with any Wilson speaker.

Finally, I would only request that all front end gear and amps be on and warm for audition. It was not ideal from that respect.

 

[LL21]

if I had known that about the speakers I would have asked that they be powered exactly that way which is biamped with SS 1.2Kw driving the bottom and the 2301 driving the mid and upper.

I bet that would have been a wonderful sound. I am sorry that I missed that one because if I had known I would have wanted to hear the speakers exactly that way. Bear in mind that you cannot do any of this with any Wilson speaker.

I once asked a Wilson dealer whether it was possible to hardwire my Class A SS amp to the bass of the X1s and get an identical SS amp for the mids and upper. He confirmed it was possible to do, though i did not pursue it.

 

[DEV]

One thing I found amusing is the line of questioning about the brands of amps and cables used. I think we all agree these do indeed make a difference in systems of this caliber, but let's get real. Whereas amps and cable are basically ruler flat, by far and away the single most important variable that effects the listening experience is frequency response. With relatively significant deviations observed in both systems which show from far from ideal frequency responses, what is the point of bringing into the discussion, the relative merits of amplification or speaker wire? I will say however, that the McIntosh gear is not only fine gear (even the great HP thinks the 2301 is one of the great tube amps of out time), but can anybody argue that it isn't some of the most beautiful gear around and has been for several decades! Let me tell you, when you flip the input selector of the Mc preamp to phono, and the thick acrylic platter of the turntable suddenly lights up in sea foam green, if that doesn't make your heart do a little dance, then you are not an audiophile!

It does seem however that audiophiles are often distracted by small things that are not nearly as important as basic fundamentals such as frequency response. For me, I am comfortable talking about the relative impact and sonic merits of that stuff only after the fundamentals are in place and done correctly. Once we get the big stuff out of the way, I think its then fair to delve deeply in to the analytics that others have asked for. Until then, as in the systems here, there are far bigger fish to fry.
Marty

Reading such appears to be coming across as dismissing other individules thoughts including myself and that only yours count, sorry but that's not how it works.

I really wonder why you even wrote as you did your original post and did not feel it was important to provide further information as Steve and Mike has after the fact?

Even reading your own posting above you even now seem compelled to say something;

"The systems just weren't set up to their best advantage to enable meaningful discrimination at that level. At least for me."

Actually it was you who opened with the thread, not really providing proper info. from the get go, personally I would have never have posted such.

Mike even went to point of posting saying;

"Had I known that they were part of the audiophile community and interested in doing a quick review on the speakers I would have requested that they come after we finish expansion and have done a final set on the speakers..."


Marty above you wrote in relation to amps etc. that you find it amusing? these are all very common basic inquiries just like why you own what you own and why Steve uses what he does paired up with his Wilson's so why do you find this amusing. I'm sure the both of you had plenty of comments between the two prior and after leaving Mike's place.

We can all agree that we are talking about some pretty costly speakers here and if I was looking to purchase any of these I would want to capture the most out of them hence my question why have them specifically paired up with these Mac amps. Sorry but your analogy just is adding up "I giggled " when you made mention to (even the great HP thinks the 2301 is one of the great tube amps of out time) how many times have I we heard that

You also add saying;

"when you flip the input selector of the Mc preamp to phono, and the thick acrylic platter of the turntable suddenly lights up in sea foam green, if that doesn't make your heart do a little dance, then you are not an audiophile!"

WOW! a person isn't a audiophile just because he doesn't like that, what a silly remark!

Again I will state I have nothing against Mac gear, being a previous owner of several pces and present.

 

[zermatt]

I have a friend who had Alex. Series II and now has the XLF. I know the both systems well and the new speaker is a better speaker. Its very special in the highs and the overall presentation is less forceful. I have never heard the Adia but I bet I would love it. In short, the Wilson XLF is very very expansive but it does deliver a very convincing musical presentation.

 

[LL21]

One thing I found amusing is the line of questioning about the brands of amps and cables used. I think we all agree these do indeed make a difference in systems of this caliber, but let's get real. Whereas amps and cable are basically ruler flat, by far and away the single most important variable that effects the listening experience is frequency response. With relatively significant deviations observed in both systems which show from far from ideal frequency responses, what is the point of bringing into the discussion, the relative merits of amplification or speaker wire?

Hi Marty, was simply curious if you had any observations about the Zanden amps, that's all. I have never heard them. Not necessarily a hugely detailed or critical assessment...just curious because i have not come across anyone who has heard it before. If you had the chance in the room, for example, to swap them out for the Boulders that they have there (i am speaking of the Miami store where they have Zanden and Boulder...i thought someone mentioned earlier you had heard the Aida there with Zanden), i would have been curious to know what you thought in comparison between the two. thanks.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I don't see any "professional bias" here either... Confused, frankly, about that comment...

You know this internet "conspiracy" about everything is getting rather long in the tooth. Dammit! Steve and Marty were just having fun and reporting back on their adventures. Nothing more. Nothing less. There aren't a whole lot of places where you could compare these two contenders for SOTA. And Mike was kind enough to explain that they're still in the process of finishing the rooms for the speakers. What else do you need? For those of you who see things between the lines, it's time to take your meds.

 

[Steve Williams]

You know this internet "conspiracy" about everything is getting rather long in the tooth. Dammit! Steve and Marty were just having fun and reporting back on their adventures. Nothing more. Nothing less. There aren't a whole lot of places where you could compare these two contenders for SOTA. And Mike was kind enough to explain that they're still in the process of finishing the rooms for the speakers. What else do you need? For those of you who see things between the lines, it's time to take your meds.

Thanks Myles

Here is my thread inviting other audiophiles.....

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...les-April-24th&p=103339&viewfull=1#post103339

 

[microstrip]

You know this internet "conspiracy" about everything is getting rather long in the tooth. Dammit! Steve and Marty were just having fun and reporting back on their adventures. Nothing more. Nothing less. There aren't a whole lot of places where you could compare these two contenders for SOTA. And Mike was kind enough to explain that they're still in the process of finishing the rooms for the speakers. What else do you need? (...)

Myles,
Thanks for writing it much better than I would!
As people say +1!

 

[JackD201]

Hi Steve,

Yes, the SS will control the big Wilson chassis much better than tube amplificatio, simple.

Sorry to upset you; however, regarding the above-mentioned kind dealer in Scottsdale that provided roundtrip airport pickup service for you, was he thinking that the two of you were just audiophiles out on a roadtrip or did he think that you two were potential customers looking to make a decision?

Cheers!
ALF
Lammie Guy...

If Steve and Marty came to Manila, I'd pick em up and drop em off myself too just because I like them.

Jack

another Lammie Guy

 

[jap]

Marty and Steve, thanks for the report.

Did you take any pictures of the LMC listening rooms?

 

[MylesBAstor]

If Steve and Marty came to Manila, I'd pick em up and drop em off myself too just because I like them.

Jack

another Lammie Guy

Mebbee even take 'em out to dinner

 

[JackD201]

Oh yes

I will draw the line at instigating anything that would get them in trouble with their significant others. LOL.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Oh yes

I will draw the line at instigating anything that would get them in trouble with their significant others. LOL.

Leave that to the Secret Service

 

[JackD201]

If they do come, you should join them Myles

 

[DaveyF]

You know this internet "conspiracy" about everything is getting rather long in the tooth. Dammit! Steve and Marty were just having fun and reporting back on their adventures. Nothing more. Nothing less. There aren't a whole lot of places where you could compare these two contenders for SOTA. And Mike was kind enough to explain that they're still in the process of finishing the rooms for the speakers. What else do you need? For those of you who see things between the lines, it's time to take your meds.

Great point Myles. I do think that many of us tend to defend the gear that we personally own regardless of whether it is justifiable or not. I have probably done that myself on occasion. OTOH, my impression of the MBL 101 X-treme's is pretty much the same as Marty's. Whenever I have heard these speakers, i have left the room shaking my head in wonderment. Personally, I wouldn't want these speakers in my listening room if they were twice as good as when I have heard them. Plus,IMHO, the ridiculous pricing on them is even more of a disincentive to ownership. Luckily for MBL, I guess there are people who don't have the same taste or ears as I do.

 

[MylesBAstor]

If they do come, you should join them Myles

Better put your wife up in a hotel for the weekend. You might never be allowed to ever bring audiophiles into the house again!

 

[RBFC]

Could it be that listeners reporting double images with the MBL Extremes are sitting too close for proper integration, and that those not hearing those effects are sitting a bit further back?

Lee

 

[LMC]

Steve, in general my comments are just in conversation and nothing else meant by them. Aren't we allowed to offer such?

Maybe it wasn't the best time for the OP "Marty" to write as he did or in doing so should have added some of the information you did, I wasn't there so how would I know.

It's great to read Mike is doing so well in the audio business specifically with lines mentioned.

In relation to Mac gear, as I mentioned I have owned and enjoyed numerous pces. Actually still own a MR-78 TUNER but with the speakers mentioned there are numerous others to pair up and compare.

You mentioned Mike caries in stock every component made by Mac, why did he not have MC2KW Monoblocks paired up with any of these speakers then?

In relation to what Marty said hearing the 101Extremes and hearing double voices is this what you heard also?

The MC2KW's are mounted in decorative granite in the big theater driving the McIntosh XRT2K speakers...It would have been VERY time consuming to remove them and set them up on the other side of the showroom, they also need 6 dedicated circuits to feed them. It also made no sense to open a new pair of MC2KW's. (6 boxes, 900 pounds)

The 101Xtremes may not be to everyones liking...BUT for those who favor the MBL sound, make no mistake the 101Xtremes are without peer. As I said before everyone hears differently, I do not hear double voices...As for the 101's (NOT talking about the Xtremes) we have tried them with many, many different amps over the years and have found no better match for them than MBL's own 9011...absolutely none.