You can't make this stuff up...

[Alrainbow]

And aside from the health care issue. I voted for the guy twice. And I am a white man in my fifties. What I think is really going on the people we voted in that have done everything to undermine any one who wants to change things in our government. We all here right are aruguing about things that we have no chance of fixing or changing . It is our sennetors and congressman who control all of our destinies . And this happens while we argue over it but do nothing to remove the a hol.. S who are in office. I think some of us are old enough to know the gap between the rich and poor is getting wider and deeper . As much as I feel I am rich I know I am not , and I have increased my warnings over most of my life. What we should be talking about is how to remove the elected officials who do not care at all about us. I think our health care is broken and fixing it will cost here generations of money. I agree our health insurgence is outrageous . At one point I was paying almost 4 k a month. Who can afford that and have money for yourself. I had 60 people working for me to make enough money for me to live well. There is something wrong with this and no one wants to pay or change anything.

Al

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

The problem with it Tim is that the name ACA is a lie, and so everything else about it. Whatever was wrong in the past, still is nothing has changed only now you're forced to buy insurance wether you want it or not, its not your money or your decision anymore. I'm not against healthcare reform, I'm against being imprisoned by it. The rosy side of this thing is coming at the expense of others and its not right. The point of this post wasn't obamacare but to point out to the sleepy that we're losing jobs and people are paying a price for these policies, of course the spin is you can do what you want and not have to work. Do you believe that a policies that either force people out of jobs or has disincentives for people to work is a good thing for a nation? What about the quality of of life for those who end up paying for this frivolity? My kids? Your kid? What's in store for them?

david

I've got a lot of problems with the ACA, but this isn't one of them. I live in a state where you can't register a vehicle if you don't have insurance on it, and it's a damn good idea when someone rear ends you. Keeps my insurance, and me, from absorbing the cost of the uninsured. The healthcare uninsured cost the economy a hell of a lot more than uninsured drivers. Why? Because we already have universal coverage in America. You don't have insurance? You can't afford healthcare? Your kid is running a fever of 102? You go to the emergency room and because we, thank God, we live in a country where most folks are uncomfortable with just watching the poor suffer and die on the street, the kid gets treated. For free. We already have universal coverage, David. We just have the worst, most inefficient, most expensive kind of universal coverage imaginable. Are you sure you're not against healthcare reform? Because I'm here to tell you, if you've got money, it's going to cost you more than your fair share. You're going to end up paying for the healthcare of people who can't pay for it themselves. Some of them will be honest, hard working people down on their luck. Some of them are going to be working the system to keep from working. But those of us who can afford it will pay for their healthcare or the whole thing will come tumbling down.

Nature of the beast.

Tim

 

[ddk]

I've got a lot of problems with the ACA, but this isn't one of them. I live in a state where you can't register a vehicle if you don't have insurance on it, and it's a damn good idea when someone rear ends you. Keeps my insurance, and me, from absorbing the cost of the uninsured.

Its not the same thing Tim, you have a choice not to own a car and not pay that insurance. You also have benefits for a good record, and you can pick and choose your coverage to a certain degree.

The healthcare uninsured cost the economy a hell of a lot more than uninsured drivers. Why? Because we already have universal coverage in America. You don't have insurance? You can't afford healthcare? Your kid is running a fever of 102? You go to the emergency room and because we, thank God, we live in a country where most folks are uncomfortable with just watching the poor suffer and die on the street, the kid gets treated. For free. We already have universal coverage, David. We just have the worst, most inefficient, most expensive kind of universal coverage imaginable.

Whatever your argument against the costs and inefficiencies of our healthcare system is fine, the other side of the argument is that the quality of our healthcare ranks no. 1 for now. Are you telling me that more bureaucracy and big government will bring costs down and raise quality?

Are you sure you're not against healthcare reform? Because I'm here to tell you, if you've got money, it's going to cost you more than your fair share. You're going to end up paying for the healthcare of people who can't pay for it themselves. Some of them will be honest, hard working people down on their luck. Some of them are going to be working the system to keep from working. But those of us who can afford it will pay for their healthcare or the whole thing will come tumbling down.

Nature of the beast.

Tim

Depends on what you mean by healthcare reform? If ACA is your standard then no, I want it to come tumbling down.

david

 

[ddk]

And aside from the health care issue. I voted for the guy twice. And I am a white man in my fifties. What I think is really going on the people we voted in that have done everything to undermine any one who wants to change things in our government. We all here right are aruguing about things that we have no chance of fixing or changing . It is our sennetors and congressman who control all of our destinies . And this happens while we argue over it but do nothing to remove the a hol.. S who are in office. I think some of us are old enough to know the gap between the rich and poor is getting wider and deeper . As much as I feel I am rich I know I am not , and I have increased my warnings over most of my life. What we should be talking about is how to remove the elected officials who do not care at all about us. I think our health care is broken and fixing it will cost here generations of money. I agree our health insurgence is outrageous . At one point I was paying almost 4 k a month. Who can afford that and have money for yourself. I had 60 people working for me to make enough money for me to live well. There is something wrong with this and no one wants to pay or change anything.

Al

Hey Al, not sure what you mean, are you saying that it was wrong for you to provide jobs for 60 people? Is expanding government the kind of change you're looking for? If so Bush should have been your idle. I fully agree that our health insurance costs are outrageous just that in many cases they have doubled and we have the option to opt out any longer.

david

 

[DaveyF]

Why is this thread ongoing? ( the point??) Wasn't something like it posted a few months ago??
David in Utah, have you ever been in the position of NOT having health insurance ( because you couldn't get it- either due to to a pre-existing condition, or because you simply couldn't afford it) and were faced with a
mega thousand $$ bill from the hospital that had treated you? I suspect not.
IMO, Tim is the voice of reason here.

 

[ddk]

Why is this thread ongoing? ( the point??) Wasn't something like it posted a few months ago??

Do we all need your permission to have a discussion here? Are you being force to participate?

David in Utah, have you ever been in the position of NOT having health insurance ( because you couldn't get it- either due to to a pre-existing condition, or because you simply couldn't afford it) and were faced with a mega thousand $$ bill from the hospital that had treated you? I suspect not.
IMO, Tim is the voice of reason here.

No, not in Utah but I have in the past in NY. It was my choice back then not to have insurance and it was my responsibility to deal with it then as it is now. I still have that pre-existing condition, does that win me a medal or give me the right to burden others with it?

david

PS There are plenty of programs out there for people in this situation who can't afford their bills.

 

[treitz3]

Let's keep the conversation civil, gentlemen. Please keep all personal comments to yourself.

Tom

 

[Alrainbow]

No of course not. I was indicating how many people I needed to make money because of my overhead. I would never look at people as just to make money. With . I have employees some for over 15 years in fact 6 workers like that. I downsized in 2009 . I am electrical contractor so when the banks pulled the plug on loans it all went away. I was trying to illustrate just how low profits are and how much we have to do to make money. There was a time if I had just 4 guys I made a pretty good living. I now have about 25 .

Al

 

[DaveyF]

No, not in Utah but I have in the past in NY. It was my choice back then not to have insurance and it was my responsibility to deal with it then as it is now. I still have that pre-existing condition, does that win me a medal or give me the right to burden others with it?

david[/QUOTE]

This is the second thread you have started with regards to Obamacare. Maybe you could disclose to us the real reason you have such animosity to Obamacare. Inquiring minds and all that, LOL.

 

[Alrainbow]

I live in NYC and I own a home in NC. and the opinion of Obama is directly proportioned to where I am when I pose a question. If in NYC it gets a fair shake. If I am down south there is just no point in asking the question. My point is this is why it is so difficult to get by partisan work done.
Al

 

[ddk]

No of course not. I was indicating how many people I needed to make money because of my overhead. I would never look at people as just to make money. With . I have employees some for over 15 years in fact 6 workers like that. I downsized in 2009 . I am electrical contractor so when the banks pulled the plug on loans it all went away. I was trying to illustrate just how low profits are and how much we have to do to make money. There was a time if I had just 4 guys I made a pretty good living. I now have about 25 .

Al

Its hard to make a buck these days and thanks to the Fed printing presses what you make isn't worth much either. I hear you.

 

[ddk]

I live in NYC and I own a home in NC. and the opinion of Obama is directly proportioned to where I am when I pose a question. If in NYC it gets a fair shake. If I am down south there is just no point in asking the question. My point is this is why it is so difficult to get by partisan work done.
Al

Because it wasn't bipartisan to begin with. It was rammed down our throats and never disclosed what was in it. More than half the nation doesn't want this law yet we all have to abide by it. I left NY 2 years ago because I couldn't get a fair shake.

 

[ddk]

This is the second thread you have started with regards to Obamacare. Maybe you could disclose to us the real reason you have such animosity to Obamacare. Inquiring minds and all that, LOL.

Same reason I moved to Utah from NY and not to California!

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Are you telling me that more bureaucracy and big government will bring costs down and raise quality?

I say this with no small amount of pain: Compared to the system we have now, yes big government and bureaucracy could bring down costs and raise quality.

...the quality of our healthcare ranks no. 1

You need to check your data. Overall we're not no. 1. For millions of people, we're not even close.

Tim

 

[Alrainbow]

I guess I am not all that big on politics but ny is still where the money is. It's not where I live down south people, do not make money I do. And I live about 35 mins out of Raleigh so although my home is in the woods I am not far from the city. And I would not want to do business there . Here in ny it's easy but overhead is high, as for people I am a third generation American. But ny is really About diversity now down south they have the luxury of being around almost all white Americans. As I am the chosen white I kind of despise that outlook and for this I like it here in ny better . But of course it is nice to be there as well. I just leave my ny ideals at the boarder.

Al

 

[DaveyF]

Same reason I moved to Utah from NY and not to California!

Is this the reason, LOL...Feels Like 27° Visibility 10mi Humidity 52% UV Index 0 (Low)
Tonight - Cloudy with snow showers becoming a steady accumulating snow later on. Low 23 °F (-5.0 °C). Winds S at 10 to 20 mph (16.1 to 32.2 kph). Chance of snow 80%. 1 to 3 inches of snow expected.
Tomorrow - Snow during the morning will give way to a mixture of rain and snow during the afternoon. High 41 °F (5.0 °C). Winds SSW at 5 to 10 mph (8.0 to 16.1 kph). Chance of rain 80%. Snow accumulating 1 to 2 inches.

 

[ddk]

I say this with no small amount of pain: Compared to the system we have now, yes big government and bureaucracy could bring down costs and raise quality.

I can't have faith in what you see but I respect and appreciate your position.

You need to check your data. Overall we're not no. 1. For millions of people, we're not even close.
Tim

I was talking about quality of healthcare not quantity of service provided, they're usually exclusive of one another. I checked the facts, we spend more dollars than any other country for medical research, we have many of the best doctors and the best hospitals and most no. of medical innovations than other nation. And yes, we have plenty of crappy doctors and hospitals too. Most importantly we had the freedom of choice, not force purchase.

 

[ddk]

I guess I am not all that big on politics but ny is still where the money is. It's not where I live down south people, do not make money I do. And I live about 35 mins out of Raleigh so although my home is in the woods I am not far from the city. And I would not want to do business there . Here in ny it's easy but overhead is high, as for people I am a third generation American. But ny is really About diversity now down south they have the luxury of being around almost all white Americans. As I am the chosen white I kind of despise that outlook and for this I like it here in ny better . But of course it is nice to be there as well. I just leave my ny ideals at the boarder.

Al

I get your point Al, NY is where the money is, no argument there. My entire family lives in NYC and there are great things about the place but we have a different threshold for certain things and I have different priorities at this point in my life.

david

 

[rbbert]

...I was talking about quality of healthcare not quantity of service provided...

Where in the world did you get this idea?? Our quality of health care is horrible by almost any measure, and when you factor in what it costs it looks even worse.

 

[rockitman]

Where in the world did you get this idea?? Our quality of health care is horrible by almost any measure, and when you factor in what it costs it looks even worse.

Actually we have the best healthcare in the world. Why do the elite from various countries worldwide come to this country for major procedures/treatment ? Our fee for service cost structure, fraud and litigation is what makes us the most expensive. Funny how democrats protect their lawyers lobby and refuse to address tort reform, interstate competition, ect. Things that could bring down the cost of healthcare delivery. There is not one thing in Obamacare that addresses reductions in cost. In fact, it will be unsustainable down the road. Those who can pay will pay a lot more. In the end we know the liberal master plan. Destroy the healthcare industry and introduce gov't controlled single payer. Same thing for immigration...Let's legalize the 15 million illegals so they will vote for us...Democrat. That is their motivation. I see the rats taking a beating this fall in the elections.