Would I be crazy if I think I like my Dartzeel amp more than .....
- Thread starter joeinid
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Yes, you are letting your wild imagination get the best of you. Are you still om medication?
Question hazy, please ask again later
I don't think so ... I think my Dartzeel NHB-108 needs/wants a brother
Hi Joe. Been off the site for a few days...crazy tough at work. crazy tough. as for Dartzeel v Burmester...are you using the exact same system other than swapping amps? i would have guessed Burmester is a very powerful, natural sound with strong macrodynamics (which gives powerful impression)...perhaps the Dartzeel a bit less powerful sounding, and seemingly therefore more 'nuanced'. Is that what you are saying?
Not at all. Even before you received your Burmester, I posted in one of the threads that I thought you'd be getting rid of them instead of the 108
Enjoy, you have one of the finest amps in the world
alexandre
Hi Lloyd,
I think what you are saying is a big part of it. The Dart may be a little more forgiving. My TAD's, to me and my ears, are very revealing as I've said before and while Burmester may be more truthful/accurate, I just enjoy the Dart/TAD combo. With the 077 as the preamp, the Dart leans back to more truthful. Put the GAT on the Dart and I love the warmer than neutral, dimensional and layered sound I get. I feel the Dart with the TADs are less analytical and more musical. Add the GAT/Dart/TAD and it's like "Wow!", I really like what I am hearing.
Not at all. Even before you received your Burmester, I posted in one of the threads that I thought you'd be getting rid of them instead of the 108
Enjoy, you have one of the finest amps in the world
alexandre
Alexandre,
I was trying to go back through the posts and find your quote because it was in the back of my head. The Dartzeel is more satisfying and intimate. I am trying to figure out what two 108's will do for me as well as the NHB-18NS as a system. I believe my TAD CR-1's have a lot to do with it. More laid back and forgiving speakers might be better with my Burmester.
Indeed. I haven't heard the TADs, but it has a reputation as a very accurate and "truthful" speaker. And that's precisely what the darTZeel electronics are So it's a good match there.
I've also tested numerous amplifiers, most of them more powerful than the 108, and I've always ended up going back to the 108. All the testing made me realise the 108 isn't perfect, as some of these other amps did things better than the 108 can, mostly due to its 100/160W, but the 108 always produced the most pleasant sound on a wide variety of (non-audiophile) recordings.
If you want perfect, the 458 is there for you
Did you try to get the darTZeel preamp for a test drive?
alexandre
So it's a good match there.I've also tested numerous amplifiers, most of them more powerful than the 108, and I've always ended up going back to the 108. All the testing made me realise the 108 isn't perfect, as some of these other amps did things better than the 108 can, mostly due to its 100/160W, but the 108 always produced the most pleasant sound on a wide variety of (non-audiophile) recordings.
If you want perfect, the 458 is there for you
Did you try to get the darTZeel preamp for a test drive?
alexandre
Indeed. I haven't heard the TADs, but it has a reputation as a very accurate and "truthful" speaker. And that's precisely what the darTZeel electronics are
I've also tested numerous amplifiers, most of them more powerful than the 108, and I've always ended up going back to the 108. All the testing made me realize the 108 isn't perfect, as some of these other amps did things better than the 108 can, mostly due to its 100/160W, but the 108 always produced the most pleasant sound on a wide variety of (non-audiophile) recordings.
If you want perfect, the 458 is there for you
Did you try to get the darTZeel preamp for a test drive?
alexandre
I am working on the preamp. I am trying to sell my 077 and I have my eye on one. I am thinking a little more power might be nice and I am thinking about adding another 108 at some point.
Thanks!
Joe,
You're not comparing your Burmester setup with my NAD!
If you compare it with other top reference class products, I guess there's nothing strange in preferring the GAT/Dart couple to the Burmester one (and this doesn't mean Burmester is not good...)
If I were you, I'd try to shrink down to a unique system. I'd probably be more curious to test the Dart preamp rather than double the power amps...
Joe,
You're not comparing your Burmester setup with my NAD!
If you compare it with other top reference class products, I guess there's nothing strange in preferring the GAT/Dart couple to the Burmester one (and this doesn't mean Burmester is not good...)
If I were you, I'd try to shrink down to a unique system. I'd probably be more curious to test the Dart preamp rather than double the power amps...
I am starting to think about which components to sell and which to keep. I do have way too much gear and think I know what I want now. I was recommended against doubling up the amps and was pointed in the direction of the preamp so it's funny you mention the same thing. If you want me to test the NAD, I'll have to charge a small fee
Oh, and you are right. The Burmester is fine. It's just proper system matching is key to maximizing pleasure.
Joe ,
What is the digital source you are using? You are choosing a system, all parts, even the cables participate in the final result and its appreciation. IMHO, at same time you have to get some anchor components in your system and built it around them. Otherwise it is a never ending process.
And yes, the Darzeel loves to be paired with the matching preamplifier.
What is the digital source you are using? You are choosing a system, all parts, even the cables participate in the final result and its appreciation. IMHO, at same time you have to get some anchor components in your system and built it around them. Otherwise it is a never ending process.
And yes, the Darzeel loves to be paired with the matching preamplifier.
I have been there as well Joe, and while I am not assuring that I am in sonic nirvana (far from there actually) one thing for sure is that, steps that I have made towards musicality, truth of trimbre and tonality (personal taste some might correctly say) the more I get the feeling of heading to safe port.
I am not that familiar with neither Burmester or DartZel, but under show conditions, I have always liked the later on the parameters above listed.
I am not that familiar with neither Burmester or DartZel, but under show conditions, I have always liked the later on the parameters above listed.
i'm in the darTZeel camp myself for it's nuance and naturalness. and honestly the dart also gets microdynamics as well as any amp i've heard. the stereo 108 does not impose an iron grip on a speaker; but i found that when i did add the Equi=tech 10WQ isolation transformer that the 108 did grow some bigger balls and added a larger sense of control. since the Equi=tech i cannot get the 'eye's' to get brighter which they do when driven to near clipping. the dart gets full value with linear stable power.
i have my sense of the Burmester sound but i've not directly compared it to the dart.
i do think that using the dart preamp with the 'zeel-BNC cables' does take the 108 to another level....and i strongly recommend that one at least audition that combo. Mr. Fremer, in the current issue of Stereophile, speaks to that in his review of the 458.
and when you compare the cost of top level interconnects one might choose with this level gear with the cost of the zeel cables and the included wonderful phono stage, the dart pre is not so expensive as it appears to be.
5 years ago, i did do double darts when i had my Von Schweikert VR9SE's. i also used 2 pairs of Transparent Opus MM speaker cables. it was very very nice. but i agree that the dart pre will take you further than a pair of 108's. of course, it comes down to the priority of what aspect of the sound is most valuable to you.
i have my sense of the Burmester sound but i've not directly compared it to the dart.
i do think that using the dart preamp with the 'zeel-BNC cables' does take the 108 to another level....and i strongly recommend that one at least audition that combo. Mr. Fremer, in the current issue of Stereophile, speaks to that in his review of the 458.
and when you compare the cost of top level interconnects one might choose with this level gear with the cost of the zeel cables and the included wonderful phono stage, the dart pre is not so expensive as it appears to be.
5 years ago, i did do double darts when i had my Von Schweikert VR9SE's. i also used 2 pairs of Transparent Opus MM speaker cables. it was very very nice. but i agree that the dart pre will take you further than a pair of 108's. of course, it comes down to the priority of what aspect of the sound is most valuable to you.
One of the best systems I've heard was the TAD Ref One with the Dart amp. I was really quite surprised how this pair matched-up. Now, here is the part no one is going to believe. When we took-out the Dart preamp, connected with its special connector, and replaced it with the BAT Rex using an XLR cable, the sound was incredible. It had the clarity of the Dart, but the weight, texture, depth, and dynamics of the BAT. It was synergy. The Dart pairing was polite and clear, the Dart with BAT Rex preamp let the system really relax and become great fun. So much for conventional wisdom.
Joe ,
What is the digital source you are using? You are choosing a system, all parts, even the cables participate in the final result and its appreciation. IMHO, at same time you have to get some anchor components in your system and built it around them. Otherwise it is a never ending process.
And yes, the Darzeel loves to be paired with the matching preamplifier.
Right now my sources are a Metric Halo LIO-8, Sony XA-5400ES (getting the full ModWight treatments and upgrade as of now), Marantz cd player. The LIO-8 does a great job, but I am on the hunt for a great dac/player. My goal at the moment is to sell the 077 and look for the Dart 18 preamp to go with the 108 amp and also get a better dac/player.
Very interesting...if i may 'totally guess'...it sounds like the BAT Rex/Dart combination resembles the description Joe gives of his GAT/Dart combination.
Hi Joe,
after i listened them side by side a lot of times to my delear, as well as, Dartzeel 108's (with his preamp NHB-18NS) Vs Burmester 911's (stereo version and the preamp was the 088's) with a coupling of speakers, I'm in the taste of German gear. At my ears the 911's sounds better at all; wholeness of sound in terms of tonal balance (neutrality impressive), is especially a tonal and harmonic richness amazing. The breath of the music, control, refinement and attention to details, dynamic contrast and accuracy throughout the audio spectrum is outstanding. The 911's when monos projecting these musical parameters on absolute levels. This is my personal experience.
I wish making the choice more appropriate to your musical taste hoping that the weather does not lead to bad thoughts.
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