Why Tube Amps Sound Different (and better) Than SS Amps

[DaveyF]

Is this thread going anywhere???

 

[thedudeabides]

I found an interesting item on Ethan Winer's home page.

He has a section called Wisdom and Quotes. Here is one of the quotes listed.

I fully respect your right to disagree with me, so long as you understand that I'm right and you're wrong.

I do give him kudos for his love of cats and rescuing shelter animals in need of a home. Very cool Mr. Winer. I recently adopted a shelter dog and gave her a "forever" home. Maybe we should talk about that.

 

[Bruce B]

Though surely more than 1.5 Million views on my Cello Rondo music video that I wrote, performed, recorded, and mixed all by myself must be worth something.

--Ethan

Most of these videos do have a lot of views!!

 

[cjfrbw]

I have come to appreciate and enjoy Ethan's informational videos.

There are some issues where I am objectivist by default, but at the end of the day, I have to listen to the stuff so I reserve the right to be a head banging, jibbering, slobbering subjectivist.

 

[rockitman]

Is this thread going anywhere???

Probably not...especially with Ethan trying to raz everyone save for the strict and clueless objectivists.

 

[Bruce B]

Probably not...especially with Ethan trying to raz everyone save for the strict and clueless objectivists.

I'm still searching for his vast body of work.... no music credits, no AES peer reviewed papers ... wtf?? All I see is he has written reviews and been on expert panels... so have I. Certainly don't give me any more credibility.
Ok... enough about him.

I'm getting more education from what Ralph and others say.

 

[microstrip]

This really doesn't make sense. It's not your $120k or your SET amp, so how can you say that (calling someone a fool)? More, one controversial member with (at least) less education and (perhaps) less knowledge is repeatedly insulting others' judgment and opinions; you don't think a response is appropriate?

Yes, it is mainly a question of respect for the others. I deeply respect the preferences of people who love extremely low bass at high levels and build their OTLs, however I feel upset when they can not refrain from showing their disdain for the way people spend their money.

 

[Atmasphere]

If you believe "it's now shown" that my statements are BS you are truly deluded. Nor is it my job to prove that swapping one competent power cord for another makes an audible difference. As they say, extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof, and to anyone who understand even basic electricity, the claims for power cords are indeed extraordinary. None the less, I have tried countless times to provide proof, by repeatedly asking believers to let me test them blind. So I'm not the one ducking and failing to offer proof! It's Myles Astor, Michael Fremer, and others in the forums who live near me but refuse to prove they can hear what they claim.

Ethan, you seem to be ducking, something you said you don't do. So I will point you to the BS: "But its a power cord! Its a power cord! I repeat, its a power cord!" You know where the statement is, in your video debunking audio myths. More power to you for trying to debunk myths, less when you fail to back it up with numbers as in this case. I see that now you are careful to use the phrase 'competent power cord'. BTW its not 'extraordinary' when all you need is a 3 1/2 digit DVM... Have you not been reading this thread?

I do give you credit though for now acknowledging that power cords indeed do make a difference. All that is needed now is to define what is meant by 'competent power cord'... in that, I think you will find that there are varying degrees of competence, of which you cannot possibly have any clue without having done any measurements!

IOW how can you possibly know how competent these power cords actually are without measurements to back you up?? You are doing here exactly what you disdain in the subjective camp!!

If you didn't realize that's a joke, then I guess the joke's on you.

Seriously? I guess not because its a joke, but just so you know, a real joke is usually followed by a sound we humans call 'laughing'. Just a tip: a joke might be the sort of thing where self-denigration occurs- that is an easier way to get the room on your side. Self-aggrandizement is less effective. In this case you got crickets- IOW that 'Scienceman' thing is degrading your credibility because you don't/won't exercise the science.

Like Sean Hannity, you can make up stuff like this all day long, but it doesn't make it true. I did mess up an audio test a few years ago at Gearslutz, and I did admit it. I have no idea what you're talking about here.

--Ethan

But if you don't make it up then what? I have been careful to outline what I've been talking about. Is there a comprehension issue? FWIW above would have been a good time to fess up, instead more denial, which does not help your case.

Ah yes, the old Mixerman logic. "I have a good ear for turning the knobs to make stuff sound good, so that proves I also understand audio science and electronics and how digital summing works etc."

I never claimed to be an expert mix engineer, and that has zero bearing on the validity of my statements here. Though surely more than 1.5 Million views on my Cello Rondo music video that I wrote, performed, recorded, and mixed all by myself must be worth something.

--Ethan

Actually Ethan, not only are you contradicting yourself in the above statement (text in red) but yes you did and I quote (post #694) "I've seen it all and done it all.", unless you have an alternative definition for the word 'all' that the rest of us are unaware of.

 

[BruceD]

I'm getting more education from what Ralph and others say.

Agree totally Ralph communicates with us tenfold more than Mr Winer and his ramblings.

BruceD

 

[thedudeabides]

The results are in regarding whether the dog (chasing the tail) or the tail (chasing the dog) won.

Judges, the envelope please.

The winner.

Drum roll................................................

BOTH.

Time to move on, yes?

 

[JackD201]

Time to move on, yes?

Good a time as any.

 

[MylesBAstor]

And not one sockpuppet.

 

[Ethan Winer]

Most of these videos do have a lot of views!!

Sure, but they're not music videos. I bet Sugar Sugar by The Archies sold more copies than anything you ever worked on! Which shows how ridiculous it is for you to equate recording credits to audio knowledge, which you started.

I'm still searching for his vast body of work.... no music credits, no AES peer reviewed papers ... wtf??

Yet you never apply the same criticism to Myles or any of the other Ethan-bashers here. Talk about a double standard! Who here has had peer-reviewed papers published in a professional journal? Have you? Has Myles? Rockitman? The Dude? Atma-Sphere? Do you really think one must have that in order for their opinions to be considered? Can you not see the fallacy and hypocrisy of your position? I'm sure you believe your own body of work speaks for itself, as do I for mine. So please let's stop the ridiculous practice of demanding credentials, and stick to the actual subject at hand. Thank you.

--Ethan

 

[Ethan Winer]

I do give you credit though for now acknowledging that power cords indeed do make a difference.

No they don't. They really don't. Unless they're defective or too thin for the job. If you have proof that people can hear a difference between one competent power wire and another, I'll be glad to see it. Until then, all you're doing is lowering the s/n of this forum.

Here's a question I hope you will not duck: What brand and model power cords do you supply with the audio products you sell?

--Ethan

 

[Ethan Winer]

Is this thread going anywhere???

Great question. No it's not going anywhere. It's the same group of people arguing the same tired nonsense. So let's change the subject!

I recently got a fabulous music gig, though it doesn't pay a penny. I'll be performing Tchaikovsky's Rococo Variations for cello and orchestra with the local symphony next January. But I'm playing it on the electric guitar rather than the cello! This is a ferociously difficult piece to play on the cello, but on the guitar not so much. Yay for frets!

But it's still a huge project, with almost 3,000 notes to memorize over its 20 minute duration. I've been practicing every day for three months so far, and I have all but one section memorized. I'm still rusty after not playing the guitar much for many years, but it's coming back quickly. I'm also working up an array of different guitar sounds for the variations. My friend and WBF member, video expert Mark Weiss, will record video and audio for that part of the concert, and I'll put it up on YouTube.

--Ethan

 

[edorr]

No they don't. They really don't. Unless they're defective or too thin for the job. If you have proof that people can hear a difference between one competent power wire and another, I'll be glad to see it. Until then, all you're doing is lowering the s/n of this forum.

Here's a question I hope you will not duck: What brand and model power cords do you supply with the audio products you sell?

--Ethan

I am the proud owner of a collection of power cables worth more than my car, and have made this investment based on perceived difference in SQ. I am however realistic enough to acknowledge that I cannot vouch I will be able to distinguish these cables from the proverbial home depot cable in a double blind test. This fairly rigidly executed double blind test of Nordost Valhallas against stock cords yielded accuracy of 49% (i.e. same as flipping a coin), lending some support to the skeptics position.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html

 

[Atmasphere]

No they don't. They really don't.

Without any proof this statement is baseless and false.

Unless they're defective or too thin for the job. If you have proof that people can hear a difference between one competent power wire and another, I'll be glad to see it. Until then, all you're doing is lowering the s/n of this forum.

Uh, just for the record, I did that already so apparently you are glad. You are ducking again, and avoiding answering some pretty simple questions, also you seem to be contradicting previous posts of yours, as well as this one. "Too thin for the job?" Can you explain how a 10 Amp cord cannot do 6 Amps then? You don't have the numbers to support your position: again, you are guilty of doing that which you ascribe to subjectivists. Pot calling the kettle black: hypocrite.

Again, please present the numbers. I have already done so and I can demonstrate it any day of the week as previously stated. Also, it is you that keeps bringing this stuff up- how about you lay off until you have real numbers? Ethan, you must realize that your on-going refusal to back your position with real numbers is doing nothing for your credibility and making you look like a fraud.

Here's a question I hope you will not duck: What brand and model power cords do you supply with the audio products you sell?

--Ethan

For the record, PP asked pretty much that question which I already answered. Go back and read up.

 

[GaryProtein]

Here's a question I hope you will not duck: What brand and model power cords do you supply with the audio products you sell?

For the record, PP asked pretty much that question which I already answered. Go back and read up.

I too, am curious to know what cable a high end manufacturer supplies with his equipment and prefer not to read through over 800 posts when you have the answer right at your fingertips.

 

[Atmasphere]

^^ As I told PP, we have installed IEC connections on our equipment since the early-mid 1980s, to prevent tampering with the unit as power cords were known to affect audio equipment that long ago. Further, its quite common for the power cord to be discarded as it is often replaced by an aftermarket model. We are often asked for recommendations! Consequently, we usually ship most of our products with a 10 amp 6 foot 14 ga. similar to this one (http://www.parts-express.com/iec-6-ft-ac-power-cord-black-14-3--110-144). I use the same cables at home and we also use them here in the shop.

For the record, if you know who made the post, right-click on the poster's avatar to open a tab to the poster's profile. Then under their avatar click on 'recent posts' and scroll through the results. You don't have to search 800 some odd posts! Usually just a page or so of entries- I found the post in about 10 seconds, which is number 665 (http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...)-Than-SS-Amps&p=263862&viewfull=1#post263862).

 

[still-one]

I too, am curious to know what cable a high end manufacturer supplies with his equipment and prefer not to read through over 800 posts when you have the answer right at your fingertips.

My Momentum's came with inexpensive Transparent power cords. No network boxes. I have never seen Dan show his gear with these cords connected.