When does art become science?

Gregadd

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Just by
observing the many states of reality that we experience daily we can see that
looking through a so-called "empirical" and "logical" lens
at the "objective" realm of what is "provable" captures
only part of the picture.


Reality
encompasses that which is beyond science as we know it, or at least beyond that
which the current scientific mindset can explain.


Lehrer
refers to physics as a scientific study that?s closely aligned with art in that
it deals with the realm of invisible, fundamental forces that defy literal
explanation:


CAN ART AN SCIENCE BECOME ONE AND THE SAME GREG WENDT http://realitysandwich.com/1322/could_science_art_become_one_same/
***
A concise definition of art is "human creativity." These two words are significant. Man, in art, is bringing into being something that had never existed outside his own being. He is creating. This being so, no matter how stunningly artistically beautiful a computer-generated piece of music or painting may be, it cannot be called art.

Science, on the other hand, is systematic knowledge derived from observation and experiences. The scientist begins a project from a definite knowledge point and successfully terminates it at another specific point; there is then a Q.E.D. The starting point is in the physical and intellectual realms. The scientist, for instance, wonders how a bird can fly, and he sets himself the task of making a man fly. According to myth, Icarus experimented with flying in ancient Greece. He literally "grew wings," but his materials failed him. The great Leonardo da Vinci designed an ornithopter around 1500 A.D., but he did not reach the Q.E.D. The Wright brothers were able to build the precursor of the modern airplane between 1900 and 1902. This ictabilityis the nature of science.
When does Art become Science and Science Become Art?http://muse.jhu.edu/login?auth=0&type=summary&url=/journals/leonardo/v042/42.1.grillo.html



What are we to make of it when human impress diggeionsr from scientific measurements,
1. We can dismiss the impression as a figment of their imagination
2.WE can try to eliminate variables that might be the true cause of their impressui.
3. We can assume that the current set of metrics are inadequate to measure the perceived phenomenon.

Depending on your reference point you may have a predisposed idea of what option should be utilized. In the field of audio there are two camps creator and consumers. One creates stimulus and other generates a response. It appears audiophiles can be stimulated by other things than the music being played. Because stereo reproduction is part illusion that is not necessarily undesirable It is unlikely that a large number of unrelated people will have the same or similar imagined response to a nonexistent stimulus. I say that because humans rarely have the same response to a real stimulus.
What do react when humans have a response that is inconsistent with our current system of metrics. We can't ignore the response IMO/. Nor is it fair to ask scientist to prove the universal negative.
What's the solution?
 

Johnny Vinyl

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Excuse my ignorance, but "huh"?
 

spiritofmusic

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Is this an addition to the endless objective v subjective arguments? I can't really tell. Need some coffee :eek:.
 

Gregadd

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the beginning of wisdom is the knowledge of your own ignorance. Ben Franklin
 

Groucho

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Brian Eno's definition (from the BBC John Peel lecture last week) is that art is "everything you don't have to do", so he doesn't have a problem with the idea that art and science are one and the same thing some of the time. Not convinced myself.

There is a clause within some definitions of science that stipulates that "science is not concerned with aesthetic judgements". Maybe this would rule out there being any overlap between science and art - according to most people's idea of a definition of art..?
 

MarinJim

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I think of the universe as science and art.
 

Johnny Vinyl

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The two should never meet as it dilutes the value of their individual importance to us mere beings.
 

Gregadd

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"The procedure so far accepted as satisfactory is breaking the works up into component sections: those of science and art. Take a pictorial composition, for example. One can evaluate how good the drawing of the items in the pictures is; this is essentially science. The colors, how pleasant or communicative? This is essentially...[art]"


As has been pointed out before certain musicians swear by certain brands of musical instruments. They appear to be the same but they swear they have a unique sound. the construction is science but their appears to be a difference(art) that cannot be reverse engineered, or so it appears.
 
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Johnny Vinyl

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Mosin

[Industry Expert]
Mar 11, 2012
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He ate, he pooped, and he slept. In the middle he drew some stuff.

How did I do????

Not that well.

Since you are from the West Coast, I'll give you a participation trophy, however. :D
 

Gregadd

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Da Vinci has been called a genius and the archetypal Renaissance man. His talents inarguably extended far beyond his artistic works. Like many leaders of Renaissance humanism, he did not see a divide between science and art. His observations and inventions were recorded in 13,000 pages of notes and drawings, including designs for flying machines (some 400 years before the Wright brothers' first success), plant studies, war machinery, anatomy and architecture. His ideas were mainly theoretical explanations, laid out in exacting detail, but they were rarely experimental. His drawings of a fetus in utero, the heart and vascular system, sex organs, and other bone and muscular structures, are some of the first on human record.http://www.biography.com/people/leonardo-da-vinci-40396
 

beaur

Fleetwood Sound
Oct 12, 2011
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The Da Vinci museum in his hometown is a testament to his genius. The museum has full scale builds of many of his drawings and it's a beautiful space. Lots of information on his life. If you are in the area (it's in the town of Vinci) it's well worth the visit. The town is also pretty nice.

Beau

Da Vinci has been called a genius and the archetypal Renaissance man. His talents inarguably extended far beyond his artistic works. Like many leaders of Renaissance humanism, he did not see a divide between science and art. His observations and inventions were recorded in 13,000 pages of notes and drawings, including designs for flying machines (some 400 years before the Wright brothers' first success), plant studies, war machinery, anatomy and architecture. His ideas were mainly theoretical explanations, laid out in exacting detail, but they were rarely experimental. His drawings of a fetus in utero, the heart and vascular system, sex organs, and other bone and muscular structures, are some of the first on human record.http://www.biography.com/people/leonardo-da-vinci-40396
 

Mosin

[Industry Expert]
Mar 11, 2012
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"The procedure so far accepted as satisfactory is breaking the works up into component sections: those of science and art. Take a pictorial composition, for example. One can evaluate how good the drawing of the items in the pictures is; this is essentially science. The colors, how pleasant or communicative? This is essentially...[art]"


As has been pointed out before certain musicians swear by certain brands of musical instruments. They appear to be the same but they swear they have a unique sound. the construction is science but their appears to be a difference(art) that cannot be reverse engineered, or so it appears.


Thoughtful. Thank you because this expresses what I believe more than any other single post that I have read.

If it is correct, and I believe it is, it explains why we actually have choices in audio. Art defines the result whether the degree of artistic input can be quantified, or not. Otherwise, a standardized sound for all equipment would have been established by science long ago. That would be pretty damned boring, if you ask me.
 

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