What's the skinny on chain saws?

[mep]

You know, it's funny (but not ha-ha funny) that when you get older that hair starts growing out of all kinds of places that you don't want it to. Like your ears and nose for example. Not to mention the runaway eyebrows. And what makes guys think that if they have a mustache that it's ok to let their nose hair grow out and become part of their 'stache?

Back to the chainsaw. Don, I never had an accident with a chainsaw, but I have had a few close calls. I have cut down some good size trees before and I was usally very good making them drop where I wanted them to. I did have a big oak tree roll around on the stump as I was making the final cut and start heading straight back for me when it fell. You think when you notch them that it can't happen, but it does sometimes. Cutting limbs over your head is one of the most dangerous things you can do and really shouldn't be done. If the saw kicks back (and they do, it's just a matter of time) while you are cutting over your head, you now have a chainsaw coming straight back at your head.

If you don't have much beef on your bones (and I mean muscle-not fat), I wouldn't consider picking up a chainsaw if you are cutting into a pile of very big diameter wood. You have to be strong to counteract the force of the saw trying to kick back at you and believe me, it will at some point.

Amir, you must be a glutton for punishment to think about taking on a chainsaw at this point in your life. I don't know why you just don't have someone deliver seasoned firewood to your door that has been cut to the length you want. You have a splitter. A cord of seasoned hardwood is around $100 or so. A cord is 4' H x 4' W x 8'L. I would imagine that would last you a long time. Probably a 1/2 cord would get you through the BBQ season. A half-way decent chainsaw is going to cost you at least $300 unless you want one that won't start and will give you carpel tunnel syndrome from the vibration. Factor in gas, 2 cycle oil, chain sharpener, file, and chain oil and how much money are you really saving? You can always hire some local guy to come over and saw up wood that has fallen on your property.

If you have made it this far in your life with all of your appendages still attached, I wouldn't risk them now. Keep your digits safe, keep the economy going, and hire some help and buy some wood when you need it. That's what I would do and if had your money I would burn mine.

 

[Steve Williams]

You know, it's funny (but not ha-ha funny) that when you get older that hair starts growing out of all kinds of places that you don't want it to. Like your ears and nose for example. Not to mention the runaway eyebrows. And what makes guys think that if they have a mustache that it's ok to let their nose hair grow out and become part of their 'stache?

Mark, that is probably the funniest thing I have heard in a long time. It is so absolutely true.

You continue to make me smile

I also agree with your other advice. I never will do that work and wil always buy fire wood but that's just me

 

[amirm]

Amir, you must be a glutton for punishment to think about taking on a chainsaw at this point in your life.

I am a woodworker so the danger of sharp metal and my body parts is always front and center with me. With my woodworking tools, I have an incredible array of safety products that help lower the risks. I was hoping that the same was applied to Chainsaws in recent years. Admittedly, it is illogical to think that one can isolate that huge cutting surface and still have it do its job .

As to cost, it really doesn't matter. We just bought $200 worth of seeds to plant in our field. We love to grow our own stuff even though likely it makes no economical sense. It is like when one takes out the boat to catch Salmon and spends $50 on fuel, and $1,000 in depreciation and maintenance costs, thinking he came out ahead catching a $30 fish.

 

[Steve Williams]

Too funny as well Amir.

We all know the story of the "what are the 2 best days of any boat owners life"

 

[mep]

Few tools command my respect more than tools designed for wood. Table saws and circular saws are also very dangerous. When you have sharp blades turning at very high speed and with high torque, by the time you realize you have made a mistake, you're probably missing some body parts. I guy I work with just had a family issue with a table saw. His daughter goes to IU and works in the theater department. She is 19 and using a tablesaw and cut off 4 fingers on one hand.

When I worked at the Shipyard in Maine many years ago, one of the guys I worked with had cut off two fingers in a table saw. He just spread it out over two different occasions. He said all he heard was "ting" and his finger was gone. He obviously never learned his lesson as he heard a second "ting" and had another finger fly accross the room.

I had a foreman who was missing 3 of his fingers and he cut them off with a circular saw. He was an idiot when it came to safety so it was no suprise. He actually was cuting a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood such that the 4' end was on the floor with the other end up in the air and he was ripping it from bottom to top. He sawed right over his fingers. Pure genius. He was also missing one eye. He was always trying to get us to perform dangerous work without the proper safety precautions in order to cut corners and speed up the job. He wanted me and another guy to hang off the side of a submarine and hang 21" ventilation with no scaffolding. I told him no way. He said "I would do it." I said "I know you would. That's why your missing 3 fingers and one eye."

I have spent many an hour using table saws and circular saws. As much as I respect them, that fear/respect is multiplied by 100 when dealing with a chainsaw. The potential repurcussions from an accident are just far greater with a chainsaw. I know you will be careful Amir. And you will certainly need to be.

 

[amirm]

Few tools command my respect more than tools designed for wood. Table saws and circular saws are also very dangerous. When you have sharp blades turning at very high speed and with high torque, by the time you realize you have made a mistake, you're probably missing some body parts. I guy I work with just had a family issue with a table saw. His daughter goes to IU and works in the theater department. She is 19 and using a tablesaw and cut off 4 fingers on one hand.

A story to go with this .

I was living in Bay Area and had spent a year researching if I wanted to get into woodworking. I loved the idea of it but I would keep reading articles on people getting hurt. Eventually, I overcame the fear, talked it over with my wife, and decided to get into it anyway. Took a trip up to Berkeley where there was a Whole Earth store there full of woodworking tools. I get a cart and fill it to the top with tools and such. I then needed a block plane and they kept those behind the counter. So I go to the sales guy and ask him for hit. The sales guy looks at my full cart and asks if I am getting into woodworking. I say yes. Then I think I should ask his opinion as to how safe it is. No sooner than I did and I see his one hand is missing a number of fingers! Awkward, awkward, awkward! Tried to change the topic fast and still bought the stuff.

Knock on wood, my healthy fear of it all has remained with me to this day. I bought a swiss-made saw that has great safety features and if I were to do it again, I would get the SawStop which detects skin contact and stops the blade in a few milliseconds:

 

[Steve Williams]

Amir

as they said, totally bizarre. Having seen that I would still never put my finger there. Would you

 

[amirm]

You know, I had seen the hot dog demo all the time and wondered what if its characteristics are not the same as a real finger. And wonder why the inventor would not test it with his finger. So I was so pleased to see him do so.

It reminds me of engineers being brought in 1950s and 1960s to build a bridge. When finished, they were instructed to stand under the bridge as they opened it and the car/trains go by!

Would I do so myself? The way he did it probably so. He didn't shove his finger into it. He gently moved it forward. If it didn't work, he would know it as soon as his skin got pierced.

BTW, after the guy invented the safety stop, he tried to license it to current manufacturers and not a single one would license it from him! They all complained that consumers would not pay for the added safety. So the poor guy had to get into the entire messy business of building his own saws. I would happily pay an extra $500 for an existing saw with this feature in it. Reminds me of auto makers resisting adding airbags and such before it was forced on them.

 

[mep]

That was very impressive Amir! I was never a *real* woodworker. I used to build my own speakers for years and I basically used a table saw, circular saw, and a router. My speakers were never a thing of beauty. And now I'm having a hard time getting a plinth built for my Technics SP10 MKII by "real" woodworkers. A guy I work with now is the third in a line of guys I have tried to get a plinth from. This guy has a huge shop behind his house with over $100K of woodworking tools. I asked him to make me a plinth using a total of 3 layers of wood with the top layer being tiger maple and banded on 4 sides with tiger maple. He used a planer/joiner and glued maple boards together for each layer and then glued all 3 layers together. He was supposed to plane each layer before glueing and then plane the top and bottom so it would be flat. He gives it to me today and he didn't plane the top and bottom. He hand sanded it and it is far from flat. The four sides aren't square. He only banded it on 3 sides and his miter joints are bad. I have to take it to Bloomington tomorrow and have the top and bottom planed. I'm also going to have this guy cut off the wood that is banded on 3 sides and square up the entire piece. Right now it measures 4" H x 24" L x 19" D. Thankfully I had the guy make the plinth oversized so I an afford to cut off some material in order to get it square. It all seems so simple and yet no one has done it right yet. Are there any real craftsmen left?

 

[JackD201]

This missing digits thing is really creeping me out. I think I will keep my butter fingers away from sharp spinning objects and promise in the future to keep the nose hairs and the 'stache apart.

 

[DonH50]

The SawStop has been around a while; wasn't CA at one time thinking about mandating it? Of course, there's also the "snag a knot and try to kick the board back into your gut at 237 mph" issue that not all cheap kickback stoppers stop. I have all sorts of woodworking tools; virtually all in storage until we make a new shed and do some house-cleaning, alas. I lost my basement shop when we finished our basement. There was an upside; I got my new media room, and ended up here! And a downside -- no more justification for the myriad of "must have" tools any self-respecting woodworker (or mechanic) "must" well, "have"!

There is virtually no way to make a chain saw anywhere near as safe as a table saw in operation. Not that a table saw is safe. (Aside: I still do NOT like radial arm saws after a near-death experience many years ago.) Even if by some magic you could have some sort of auto-sense circuit that would kill it when it kicked back (maybe using accelerometers to sense the motion of the saw's body, hmmm...), there are always unknowns like what the branch/log/tree is going to do. And what might be lurking hidden inside said hunk of wood. I have cut many thousands of trees over the years and can verify a notch does not always ensure a proper fall; I'll have to tell the tale of the crushed pickup cab sometime.