What should be my next cart and tonearm?

[bonzo75]

I have both arms. I have had only the Aidas cartridge on both thus far, so limited experience. On orchestral, the 3012R yields more interior detail, more energy and definitely better articulation and tonal nuance in the bass.

With its relatively higher effective mass of 19g, the 4Point works well with lower compliance carts, such as your Opus-1 (8). The 3012R is at 14g which makes it suited to, for example, Lyra Atlas or Etna, the as mentioned vand den Hul Colibris and others with a higher compliance. Of course that is a generalization and neither arm is super finicky. Newer 4Points have jeweled bearings and the 3012R has a knife edge bearing. Together they could open your system for trying a wide variety of cartridges. I agree with Shakti and think you would have fun with both of these arms.

The 3012r was very poor with the Lyra at tang’s. Took out all the energy. J Carr used the FR 64s with his Lyras before moving to SAT. SAEC and Dynavector in the old arms will also do much better with the Lyra than 3012r

 

[tima]

The 3012r was very poor with the Lyra at tang’s. Took out all the energy. J Carr used the FR 64s with his Lyras before moving to SAT. SAEC and Dynavector in the old arms will also do much better with the Lyra than 3012r

I was going by specs. Listening tells the tale.

 

[Argonaut]

The 3012r was very poor with the Lyra at tang’s. Took out all the energy. J Carr used the FR 64s with his Lyras before moving to SAT. SAEC and Dynavector in the old arms will also do much better with the Lyra than 3012r

A Dynavector DV505 would be a fine choice also.

 

[DasguteOhr]

An excellent recommendation , perhaps something in the Glanz line also for an arm that can be purchased ‘off the shelf’ consider also a 12" Thomas Schick .

Thomas schick and ortofon rmg 309 are best for Spu why not for miyaima

 

[bonzo75]

Schroeder BA and Miyajima is a brilliant mono combo.

 

[PeterA]

The 3012r was very poor with the Lyra at tang’s. Took out all the energy. J Carr used the FR 64s with his Lyras before moving to SAT. SAEC and Dynavector in the old arms will also do much better with the Lyra than 3012r

MadFloyd has 3012R and Atlas Lambda. He seems to like it. I think Tang got rid of Lyra but kept 3012R for Opus, Colibrí and Neumann.

What do anecdotes tell us? Hobbyists into this stuff should learn how to set up arms/cartridges themselves and try them at home to decide. Set up matters a lot.

 

[wbass]

I'm not flying in the high orbit of the likes of the Opus-1, but have also considered "where next?" from a 4-Point and a detailed, modern cart.

The direction I went was heavy arm with swappable head shells for various low-compliance carts. SPUs, in other words, but I've also been playing around with variations on the DL103(R). For the arm, I went with a Groovemaster 12-J. But I sort of wish I'd held out for an Ikeda or a Fidelity Research.

Just added a 3012-R (which I got for a great price), but haven't had a chance to mount it yet, so no opinion there.

For myself, I don't have enough mono records (maybe 30-40 at most?) to really justify a mono cart. And it's easy enough to just hit the mono button on my pre. Can't see that I would buy more mono records after getting a mono cart either, but that's just me.

It's nice that the AirForce III can accommodate four arms. Much fun can be had there. But I personally don't like the ergonomics when those left- and front-side arms are added. You have to lean over and kinda risk bumping things or catching your shirt on a cantilever.

So, for that reason, that would be another vote, for me, for a second arm with swappable (SME-style) head shells. You're a bit less tied down to one cart there and can play around a bit more.

 

[bonzo75]

MadFloyd has 3012R and Atlas Lambda. He seems to like it. I think Tang got rid of Lyra but kept 3012R for Opus, Colibrí and Neumann.

What do anecdotes tell us? Hobbyists into this stuff should learn how to set up arms/cartridges themselves and try them at home to decide. Set up matters a lot.

The Lyra is not a cart I like, nor tang liked compared to vdh and Opus. But the 3012r did not sound good with it. Not like Lyra should sound, irrespective of whether you like it or not

 

[gian60]

I sold my Atlas Sl Lambda
I prefer Grand cru and Opus one And Zyx Astro 1 ohm

 

[bonzo75]

I sold my Atlas Sl Lambda
I prefer Grand cru and Opus one And Zyx Astro 1 ohm

How does this Zyx sound compared to Opus.

 

[gian60]

Are similar,ZYX little more deep bass and more aire and similar natural sound and less full on mid bass

 

[mtemur]

What do anecdotes tell us? Hobbyists into this stuff should learn how to set up arms/cartridges themselves and try them at home to decide. Set up matters a lot.

+1

 

[wbass]

+1

I'm always glad to read system reports and suggestions. But, in practice, what can one really do but check out the compliance and resonance calculators, make sure the cart is in good shape, and try to set up as best one can?

Phono carts seem like one of the most variable components in any system. I take it all with a grain of salt.

But it's still fun and informative to read others' takes, and at the least, it gives you some good ideas.

 

[mtemur]

I'm always glad to read system reports and suggestions. But, in practice, what can one really do but check out the compliance and resonance calculators, make sure the cart is in good shape, and try to set up as best one can?

You can check it using test records with low frequency tracks or using AM software (which I do). If you have solid tonearm and turntable you can measure resonance frequency and can be sure about the health of the suspension of cartridge. In the below example you can see that turntable setup has sailed from 7.5Hz to 28Hz and resonance frequency is at 9.4Hz.



Additionally you check stylus using a simple usb microscope. That will give an idea about it’s condition and how good the stylus mounted.

 

[bonzo75]

MadFloyd has 3012R and Atlas Lambda. He seems to like it. I think Tang got rid of Lyra but kept 3012R for Opus, Colibrí and Neumann.

What do anecdotes tell us? Hobbyists into this stuff should learn how to set up arms/cartridges themselves and try them at home to decide. Set up matters a lot.

Tang’s was set up by a tonearm expert who used to set it up for a lot of people in Thailand.

 

[PeterA]

Tang’s was set up by a tonearm expert who used to set it up for a lot of people in Thailand.

I wonder how that set up compares to the way DDK sets up those arms. I think Tang also had the designers of the SAT and Axiom tone arms set those up. He seems to prefer the 3012R with his cartridges. Very interesting considering the age and price differences.

 

[mtemur]

I wonder how that set up compares to the way DDK sets up those arms. I think Tang also had the designers of the SAT and Axiom tone arms set those up. He seems to prefer the 3012R with his cartridges. Very interesting considering the age and price differences.

I heard them all (SME 3012R, SAT CF1-09 and AS Axiom and Axiom Anniversary edition) and set them all by myself. I prefer Axiom and SAT over SME 3012R. Cartridges were Techdas, Lyra Atlas Lambda, Kondo IO-M etc. It was not a side by side comparison but 3012 is not grounded, detailed or open as Axiom or SAT.

I think personal preferences play a major role here. If the same long discussion and try outs carried out for any arm it will be famous and considered best by some people.

 

[PeterA]

I heard them all (SME 3012R, SAT CF1-09 and AS Axiom and Axiom Anniversary edition) and set them all by myself. I prefer Axiom and SAT over SME 3012R. Cartridges were Techdas, Lyra Atlas Lambda, Kondo IO-M etc. It was not a side by side comparison but 3012 is not grounded, detailed or open as Axiom or SAT.

I think personal preferences play a major role here. If the same long discussion and try outs carried out for any arm it will be famous and considered best by some people.

I would find a discussion between you and Tang quite interesting on this matter.

 

[mtemur]

I would find a discussion between you and Tang quite interesting on this matter.

it could have been an interesting discussion. Apart from technical aspects it’s really about personal preference IMHO.

 

[abeidrov]

Tang is a special case. He also has moved from Cessaro to Bionor. I am sure, he is very happy with his current speakers, but I must say, he had the best sounding system videos with Cessaros. I wonder if there are other cases, when people have moved from the likes of SAT and Axioms to SME 3012R?