What? No bomb shelter?

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
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Seattle, WA
Watching HGTV's House Hunters International show where they show people shopping for houses in foreign countries.

This episode is in Tel-Aviv. She is shopping for home there. First surprise is how expensive it is. Small 2-3 bedroom, 1,200 square foot apartments are $500K+. She looks at home after home and in every one there is a dedicated bomb shelter room. I am talking heavy metal doors, bullet-proof windows and such.

Then she gets to the last one, looks everything and then comes the shocker: "does this home have a bomb shelter" she asks. The Realtor answers to her horror, "no, this home is too old to have one. But there is a bomb shelter a few blocks away!!!" Here reaction is the same as if you were told your future home doesn't have a kitchen! Needless to say, she passed on this house.

How we take our safety for granted.....
 
Storm cellars were found in every farmhouse in the midwest. Now, trailer parks get ravaged and people don't think it will happen to them... Don't get me started on the whole LA levy business (The Corp was supposed to do a temporary system the state would improve later with its own funding, but that never happened and - surprise - 50-year-old levy's breached. I had friends and family down there who were sick at the way it was handled in LA; MS did a much better job at cleaning up and moving forward while LA was still begging for federal aide on one hand and blaming them for it all on the other.)

Which reminds me, I still need to pick up a good generator, having apparently not learned my lesson a few years ago when we were without power (and thus heat, and water) for a week in a snowstorm. "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." - Heinlein
 
Which reminds me, I still need to pick up a good generator, having apparently not learned my lesson a few years ago when we were without power (and thus heat, and water) for a week in a snowstorm. "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." - Heinlein
Do it. We lived through two days in winter with no power or heat. Not fun. So I bought a generator and then nothing happened for a couple of years. On day I am in Japan, wake up and see the most lovely message from my wife saying power went off and they were so happy to have the generator going! Then came a couple of years ago when we had no power for 8 days and we lived on the generator. Without it, life would have been hell.

They make such great generators now. They are inverter based and very quiet. Honda and Yamaha are the leaders and the standard is this Honda which I have: http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/...on=P2GG&modelname=EU3000IS&modelid=EU3000ISAN

EU3000is_PE_IMGLG.jpg


This has 3000 peak power which is enough to power our subzero, our gas furnace, and a few lights, and TV. And long run time (a big issue with many generator). It is very quiet. Cannot hear it inside the house unlike the nasty units Home Depot sells which you can hear three blocks away and likely won't start when you need it.
 
Oh, in our second house, our heat pump runs on electricity so I had to put in a 35KW unit with a ford motor in it!!! It cost a fortune but does power most of the house with automatic transfer switch and such.
 
Don, not everyone can afford a house, and thanks to the government and the world bankers screwing over our fiat money, many of us who have homes won't be able to afford them much longer. There's a mobil home community in many people's future.. the question for some is will it be the back of a 1969 International Travel-All, or a Winnebago?
 
Do it. We lived through two days in winter with no power or heat. Not fun. So I bought a generator and then nothing happened for a couple of years. On day I am in Japan, wake up and see the most lovely message from my wife saying power went off and they were so happy to have the generator going! Then came a couple of years ago when we had no power for 8 days and we lived on the generator. Without it, life would have been hell.

They make such great generators now. They are inverter based and very quiet. Honda and Yamaha are the leaders and the standard is this Honda which I have: http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/...on=P2GG&modelname=EU3000IS&modelid=EU3000ISAN

EU3000is_PE_IMGLG.jpg


This has 3000 peak power which is enough to power our subzero, our gas furnace, and a few lights, and TV. And long run time (a big issue with many generator). It is very quiet. Cannot hear it inside the house unlike the nasty units Home Depot sells which you can hear three blocks away and likely won't start when you need it.

Fit Oyaide receptacles on that baby with a couple of Shunyata PCs and your in business.
 
@Amrim: Yeah, I looked at some nice little Honda units, but we are on well and septic so the pump takes a lot of power. My friend got a nice 10 kW Generac unit with auto crossover and all but it was fairly expensive. I put in some legwork but it died on the vine when the cost escalated... I do need to look again. I debated auto vs. manual switching but auto is desirable in case I am not home. By the time it all added up I was pushing $10k for a decent, albeit basic, setup on the lower end of the power curve. Not much to most you guys, but enough to make me throw another log on the fire and sharpen the ax instead. Of course, I have quite a bit more than that wrapped up in my stereo system now... :eek:

@Mark: Sorry, I was in no way disparaging mobile- (or any other) home owners, just noting that (IMO) a lot of people don't think about that sort of thing even in areas where it matters. If we all end in mobile (or motor) homes, I'd like to know there's a shelter available. Of course, part of the problem in a tornado situation (yes, been there, done that) is having enough warning time, and then getting people to realize they really should go to a shelter instead of riding it out in their slab home.

As for the gov't and taxes, a discussion best left off-line.

@Bruce: Can I come over and panic now? :)
 
For the generator, I'm on my second unit. In 2005, we picked up a refurbished Generac, with 12kW surge capability for $799. My 'ghetto hookup' is a 50A breaker attached to the genny cable, a 6AWG copper cable in a PVC jacket. The procedure when power goes out (happens too often and sometimes for over a week at at time before we get it back) is to shut the mains breaker and flip on the generator breaker. Then back to nearly full function with a/c, water pump, heating, stove, oven and all major appliances. Only think I can't do is play the stereo as loud as usual.

Don, back when I built the house, it was too close to the Cold War era, so the lower level is sort of a bunker construction (which turned out to be useful later on in providing a nearly indestructable room for the Bass Pig). We've only had Hurricane Belle in '76 though.. but I still remember the tornado that wrecked our Bethel house in the early sixties, which was inspiration to get away from contractor-built homes and do something completely outside of building code with my self-built house in '66. Fortunately, the Northeast doesn't have many natural disasters, especially on a mountain (excepting the Flood of '55, which hit our Stamford home), and other than the hazards of driving on snow and icy hills, it's been pretty safe. The greatest dangers are man-made around here.
 
My 'ghetto hookup' is a 50A breaker attached to the genny cable, a 6AWG copper cable in a PVC jacket. The procedure when power goes out (happens too often and sometimes for over a week at at time before we get it back) is to shut the mains breaker and flip on the generator breaker. Then back to nearly full function with a/c, water pump, heating, stove, oven and all major appliances. Only think I can't do is play the stereo as loud as usual.
Mark, if I am reading this right, what you are doing has the potential to back-feed power from the generator into the grid and hence, is against the code in US. I know you are careful about this and always remember to turn off the breaker before plugging in the generator into that outlet. But want to make sure others don't follow your lead without understanding this important factor. Per code, a proper transfer switch needs to be put in there which assures the power cannot go from the generator outside your home. 6 circuit transfer switches are under $300 and very simple to install and lets you selectively power each one of those lines.
 
Hey Mark -- Yeah, I thought about something like that. That's a great price on the Genny, BTW. Anyway, I was worried about The Code and resale and didn't go any further, plus new 25 kW units were running around $10k installed with the transfer switch, and I just let it drop. I need to think about it again and implement something. I do like the idea of being able to run most everything, plus we have to worry about frozen pipes and dead pets if I went to a minimal system. I would do as Amir sez and put in a transfer switch -- they are fairly cheap and meet code, though the codes here (and everywhere) keep getting tighter. I saw a Northstar 15 kW in an old catalog for about $4k new with a Kohler engine (the Honda versions in the catalog only went to 8 kW); a Subaru (!) unit was only ~$2500; and, B&S had a nice self-contained 20 kW home unit for around $5k. I need to do some research again.
 
Yeah, I know it's against code, but so is owning certain types of weapons.. ;) I'm the only one who operates it, so it can never backfeed. I have clear typeset warning labels on the generator breaker that say "turn off main breaker before turning on this breaker" and another on the main that says "turn off generator breaker before turning on this breaker" as reminders.
I don't have to worry about resale.. the house has been a major eyesore for decades and new neighbors that moved in the the 1980s complained about it. We never got a C of O, we just moved in after the tax foreclosure (sewer assessment) on our Bethel house forced us into an apartment, until we got evicted for falling too far behind on the rent. So we moved in here with no well, septic or central heating and had one extention cord from a temp power hookup/meter box outside. Slowly we got the well put in and I finished the plumbing and got the septic fields dug and the perf pipes put in with crushed stone, all by hand. Took me 3 years to get the well and septic functioning, despite the town sanitarian threatening to arrest me if I hooked it up--but I did it anyway. The electric power feed never got finalized.. due to lack of money. Last January, a neighbor had a fire and the fire inspector from the adjoining town noticed my 'unsafe' electric service temporary feed that was falling off a rotten tree and called the power company. That was a month of hell.. still couldn't find anyone willing to do the work cheap. $7400 was the best estimate. After a few months, the electric company gave up. Couldn't get a building permit to do the work due to.. back taxes unpaid. Having a building inspector on the property would be very dangerous anyway, due to the smorgasbord of code violations of a makeshift self-built house. But it's a moot point, so I'm working on bringing the rest of the house to completion and code-compliant. I figure another 8-10 years, if I live that long, to finish the major work. Then I can revisit the electric service. All I can do is shore it up so it doesn't cause a short.
Generator transfer switches that work for the whole house cost 6X as much as the generator. Outrageously expensive. If they were more reasonably priced, more people would use them. I certainly would--but not at four grand.
With the coming collapse of the country's socio-economic system, I have to come up with some means of providing electricity to the house for at least six months, or preferably a year. Solar is out--too many trees and too expensive for too little power. A diesel genny makes sense. Fuel obtainance is a possible issue in times of upheaval, so diesel that can run off my 2000 gallon oil tank that I use for heating may get us through.
While smaller weather-related outages are a frequent problem up here, my real concern is what to do when there's no power for six or more months and no way to obtain fuel.
My wife's liquidating her 401K in January to make up for the increased medical premiums for her health insurance. I told her to invest that chunk in gold. When TSHTF, gold is about the only thing, besides bartering essential items, that will buy stuff. Studying Ferfal's blog on survival in Argentina, post collapse, has been enlightening. Having a generator is essential, as part of securing your premises is having lighting to see intruders.
Aurora makes good gennies that are inexpensive, relatively.. http://www.auroragenerators.com/products/standby-home-generators/20-kva-standby-generator-quiet
The above model would be a minimal level. Noise is a concern, as you don't want the neighbors and passers-by to know you've got one, else someone will try to steal it.
 
Well, where would you get a steam engine? They used an existing generator with regular fuel and where that ran out, switched to wood gas.
 

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