What do you guys think about this approach to building a GREAT room?

[caesar]

What do you guys think about this approach?


- Create a room as large as feasible, 16-18 feet wide by 22-26 long by 10 feet high. Exact dimensions need architect/ zoning approval
- Soundproof the room using a sound proofing vendor, which includes free advice. Work with architect and carpenters, using the free soundproofing advice, to implement it.
- Purchase appropriate # of stand-alone (non-built-in) bass traps and diffusion panels – free advice from vendor on the number and positioning of panels
- Place speakers four to five feet into the room from all walls
- Hire an acoustician to measure the room per benchmarks in Mellor / Hedback White paper.
- Add / take out panels as necessary per subjective taste


I am looking to minimize not only costs with free advice, but also manage the risk of getting an awful room after a large cash expense. A big problem for me is that I don’t know any acoustical designers I trust. I also like the flexibility of not using built-ins, as I can adjust the room to my taste by adding/ subtracting panels.

I would love to have a great room, so please share your thoughts. I am looking for good ideas that both support and contradict my thinking. So please shoot holes in this approach!!!!

Thanks!

 

[Steve Williams]

Try fellow WBF member Art Noxon from Acoustic Sciences. Submit measurements if your room as well as photos of your sitting position and where your gear and speakers are and he will design you a room at no charge using his traps etc. I went that route and am quite happy with the result

 

[FrantzM]

Caesar

you have a blank slate... Ideal. What is the construction made off. Concrete, Wood, Drywall (Sheetrock), Plaster. These are important to consider. What speakers are you planning to use in this space? Will it be HT ? Mainly 2-Ch? Mainly HT or 50/50? Multi-Channel Music ?
What will be the floor made off? Do yo have an adjacent room you could use for your equipment ? Infinite baffle Subwoofer ?

 

[DonH50]

Don't forget to build in prime dimensions if possible to reduce modal interaction.

My new media room was to be prime, but adding a basement bedroom killed that plan and has cost me a small fortune in treatments.

 

[Bruce B]

If you are building from scratch, incorporate the acoustics (bass traps and such) into the room/wall so you can't see them.

 

[NorthStar]

Try fellow WBF member Art Noxon from Acoustic Sciences. Submit measurements if your room as well as photos of your sitting position and where your gear and speakers are and he will design you a room at no charge using his traps etc. I went that route and am quite happy with the result

Wow, we have such nice & generous people here at WBF?!! :b ...Luv people like that!

 

[fas42]

caesar, the chap I linked to in the recent thread, Art Ludwig's Sound Page, has a page you may not be aware of, talking of such matters: http://www.silcom.com/~aludwig/My_Music_Room.htm. There may be something there of value to you ...

Frank

 

[Bruce B]

People need to use the correct terminology when dealing with sound issues. When you use the term "Soundproof or Soundproofing", you must be dealing with outer space a vacuum. The correct term is sound resistant. There is no room on earth that is soundproof, unless it's built in a vacuum.

 

[microstrip]

Caesar,

You will find that there are many approaches to building a sound room and every one has a different view on its implementation. Read and listen a lot about the sound qualities associated with the main streams, then choose one and stick with it. If, as you say you do not know of any one you can trust, carry your research until you find someone.

I would second Steve advice - go with someone who can do the complete job - either with ASC or other known company.

 

[microstrip]

If you are building from scratch, incorporate the acoustics (bass traps and such) into the room/wall so you can see them.

Really? I would prefer to hide them out of view!

 

[Bruce B]

Really? I would prefer to hide them out of view!

Sorry.... you are right. That was a typo. Fixed now!

 

[NorthStar]

There are several sites that deal with the perfect room's dimensions for best acoustics.
Plus listener and loudspeakers (including subs) positioning ...

* Room's Dimensions: No multiples. [Like 8' x 16' x 24' (H x W x L).]

** Listener & Speakers Positioning: Rule of 1/3rd, 1/5th, 1/7th. 1/9th, 1/11th, 1/13th, etc.

*** And finally Room's Treatments & Acoustics: Bass traps, Absorption, room's lenses, Reflections, etc.

 

[Norman Varney]

Caesar, we offer complete design, modeling, testing & voicing services for noise control and sound quality. We also offer many acoustical products. Please check out www.avroomservice.com and contact me if you are interested. I'd be happy to discuss how we could best assist you with your project.

 

[bwraudio]

ASC Tube traps

I agree using ASC tube traps, but I took the advice from Peter Moncrieff of IAR. Using his
methods and my own experience, the acoustics of my room are exemplary. All of the
aspects of good sound (imaging, sound-stage, bass that is tight and well controlled,
and voice reproduction are what I was seeking, also transparency is outstanding.

 

[Nyal Mellor]

There are plenty of well respected designers out there. Not sure why you post so many similar threads?! Call up some designers talk to them, get references, talk to their references! Whilst this industry has a small amount of used car salesman types, do the top players in the acoustics field seem like this? When they do work for the top studios, or audio reviewers rooms? I'm not there yet with my practice but there are plenty who are, many have been mentioned in the other threads you have started.

I don't believe it is economically feasible for any acoustic treatment company to do a proper analysis of a rooms needs within the free consulting they offer. If you find any that will analyze your acoustic measurements and provide analysis as per the white paper Jeff and I put together, or similar, id be very interested. You get what you pay for and nothing in life is free.

No offense meant, I just think you are coming at this the wrong way. You could easily waste thousands of dollars on room treatment that is no use for your room and needs. Let me share something...last year I analyzed a room where the guy had contacted one of the acoustic treatment companies offering free consulting. Well they had recommended, in his home theater, four 2" thick 1ft x 2 ft absorptive panels on the side walls, which incidentally were mounted way above where they should be. The remaining 'treatment' was a couple of tiny 'bass' traps in the back corners of the room. The room was 3000 cu ft and had 50k of b&w, classe, etc in it. Now I measure the room and find two bad room modes, a huge boost in the center channel below 200hz due to near floor boundary loading and very poor consistency in the spectral consistency of the direct and indirect sound. Now that I come to think of it, it was actually one of the rooms from which the 'bad' measurements were taken for the white paper....

On to happier notes, you refer to the white paper, did you read it? What were your thoughts?

 

[caesar]

There are plenty of well respected designers out there. Not sure why you post so many similar threads?! Call up some designers talk to them, get references, talk to their references! Whilst this industry has a small amount of used car salesman types, do the top players in the acoustics field seem like this? When they do work for the top studios, or audio reviewers rooms? I'm not there yet with my practice but there are plenty who are, many have been mentioned in the other threads you have started.

I don't believe it is economically feasible for any acoustic treatment company to do a proper analysis of a rooms needs within the free consulting they offer. If you find any that will analyze your acoustic measurements and provide analysis as per the white paper Jeff and I put together, or similar, id be very interested. You get what you pay for and nothing in life is free.

No offense meant, I just think you are coming at this the wrong way. You could easily waste thousands of dollars on room treatment that is no use for your room and needs. Let me share something...last year I analyzed a room where the guy had contacted one of the acoustic treatment companies offering free consulting. Well they had recommended, in his home theater, four 2" thick 1ft x 2 ft absorptive panels on the side walls, which incidentally were mounted way above where they should be. The remaining 'treatment' was a couple of tiny 'bass' traps in the back corners of the room. The room was 3000 cu ft and had 50k of b&w, classe, etc in it. Now I measure the room and find two bad room modes, a huge boost in the center channel below 200hz due to near floor boundary loading and very poor consistency in the spectral consistency of the direct and indirect sound. Now that I come to think of it, it was actually one of the rooms from which the 'bad' measurements were taken for the white paper....

On to happier notes, you refer to the white paper, did you read it? What were your thoughts?

Nyall,

Thanks for the input. What seems like similar threads to you are actually very different to me. I learned a tremendous amount from each one. The reason is that you are intimately familiar with the subject matter. You live an breathe it every day while I get to do a room once or twice in my entire life. For you it seems impossible to imagine what it's like to lack that knowledge. Once you know something, it's hard to imagine what it was like not to know it. And it becomes difficult to share our knowledge with others, because it's difficult to readily re-create the other's state of mind. Same goes for your paper. I read it a couple of times several months ago, and there is a lot of information, in addition to 1,000 things on my mind at the moment. My take-away was there are certain criteria to measure, and for each of those criteria there is a range of acceptable values. I would further like to know what the experience is like along that range of value. Additionally, I would like to know how the criteria are interrelated, especially how the sonic experience changes as you start playing with the values in each. I would love to see a version 2.0 of your white paper that incorporates / clarifies my questions.

 

[airbearing]

here is one example how to build a listening room

www.audio16.com

 

[A.wayne]

Enjoyed that link .....

 

[Gregadd]

Get the best equipment you can.

 

[airbearing]

ha ha Gregadd, thanks for the hint. I am very deep into Micro Seiki since a long time and having studied the TechDas at the Munich High End show I am not sure if it offers any new insights to me- also soundwise. But anyway it is a good design and I am sure it will attract many audiophiles.