Visit to Marc C.'s (SpiritOfMusic's) House in England

[spiritofmusic]

If you have anything digital plugged in and even on standby this will suck some life out of your BPT And cause colourations. So for example if your Zu definitions have digital amps ( not sure about this ) or even a switch mode power device and are plugged in to the BPT , and your other analogue ancillaries ( preamp, power amps) are also powered by the same BPT.

Indeed, for my Entreq grounding I've had to give my CDP its own dedicated ground box, so delitirious is sharing the rest of the system on my original box.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Why would a balanced transformer can help on voltage fluctuations?

Well, it regenerates power and thus smoothes out fluctuations. I could be (likely) wrong on that. Maybe all it did is make my previous fluctuations "higher quality", lol.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I What would be left of Marc without his gremlins ?

An audiophile without demons… how would we recognise such a beast??

Fairly sure prior to possession (of the chapel) Marc would have had the space smoked and tastefully desanctified.

 

[spiritofmusic]

LOL! Time for a power conditioner flame war. Gird your loins and raise your lances.

Somehow I don't think we could have based an episode of Game Of Thrones on this subject.

 

[spiritofmusic]

No, no, no. It seems like Marc assumed he had a power issue in the church, but maybe he now is realizing that he never did have a problem?

More to the point, do these devices introduce issues, even if they purport to solve (others)?
The comment from my guest who knows more than just a little about power, is that despite my 8kVA Westwick 8K unit being designed for recording studios etc, David Gilmore apparently being a customer, it's too industrial for high end use.
I suspect he's right, certainly I look at alternatives from the likes of EquiTech that Mike Lavigne uses, and the Z-Axis Symmetrica made and used by UK Paul on this forum, and there's a lot more audiophile going on with these.

 

[spiritofmusic]

It won't unless the transformer has voltage regulation that is achieved by auto sensing taps that move the primary.

UPS or other battey type devices also manage voltage stability quite well.

I'm pretty sure it hasn't.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I don't mean to be so flat. I just find there is way more noise out there than people realize. The challenge is finding the right condition for the job. Do you need one. No. Will your system benefit from one applied properly. Yes. Will you get as much gain from the investment as opposed to putting the $$$ somewhere else. ????. Not sure. Depends on many factors.

In my mind, a power conditioner is not just an isolation transformer or rack unit. It also encompasses after market power supplies for digital equipment like moderns, router and switch. Even a Shunyata NR power cord is a conditioner. So are parallel plug in devices like a Defender or Add Power. Ground boxes might fall under power conditioners too.

Yep, buyer beware (ironic with the kinds of sums we spend in this hobby) and YMMV (they'll write that on all of our gravestones after we bite the dust).

 

[the sound of Tao]

Indeed, for my Entreq grounding I've had to give my CDP its own dedicated ground box, so delitirious is sharing the rest of the system on my original box.

It’s definitely also about system generated internal noises as well as the more obvious external challenge with power. Waging a war on two fronts and not seeing it as just upstream and downstream with power and conditioners… it’s probably like room treatment and as much about not overdoing it as well. It’s a bit of a double edged sword balance between suppressing noise and dynamic suppression as you said earlier for sure.

 

[spiritofmusic]

An audiophile without demons… how would we recognise such a beast??

Fairly sure prior to possession (of the chapel) Marc would have had the space smoked and tastefully desanctified.

Actually Graham, this property has a fantastically positive vibe, no scary Hammer Horror aspect to it at all. Indeed an eminent WBF member visited who says he has psychic powers that run in the family, and declared it free of malign spirits. Otoh, he said my sound had nothing but bad karma about it, so you can't win them all!

 

[the sound of Tao]

Actually Graham, this property has a fantastically positive vibe, no scary Hammer Horror aspect to it at all. Indeed an eminent WBF member visited who says he has psychic powers that run in the family, and declared it free of malign spirits. Otoh, he said my sound had nothing but bad karma about it, so you can't win them all!

Nice! Poltergeists are much harder to get rid of than hum. A place with a great vibe can make the listening better as much as any other good component.

 

[Lagonda]

I'm a little confused. Why did you assume the church has the same power situation as your old apartment?

(My view on power conditioners, balanced power devices, power re-generators and battery systems is that unless one has an actual voltage fluctuation problem or an actual grounding problem or an actual hum problem there is no problem to solve. I think OCD audiophiles often feel they have to "do something for power" just because it makes them feel better that they spent some money to feel like they are delivering high quality AC power to their beautiful components. But I don't think this makes any sense if there's no actual electrical problem in need of solving.)

Marc lives in the country now, when he listens to music his neighbors are all sleeping, they have to get up in the morning and milk the cows, his wife is mostly using battery operated devices when he spends his alone time with he Zu's in he attic !

 

[spiritofmusic]

It’s definitely also about system generated internal noises as well as the more obvious external challenge with power. Waging a war on two fronts and not seeing it as just upstream and downstream with power and conditioners… it’s probably like room treatment and as much about not overdoing it as well. It’s a bit of a double edged sword between noise and dynamic suppression as you said earlier for sure.

That's pretty much it. My previous room was just awful for power, and acoustics, and I took to large and costly audio Elastoplasts.
First a Burmester 948 conditioner that benefitted transparency and 24/7 consistency, but was a liability on dynamics. Then a cheaper Airlink balanced 3kVA power transparency that helped with dynamics but introduced somewhat of a bass thin and edgy sound.
Then Entreq which ameliorated noise issues, no downsides.
Finally the 80kg+ Westwick balanced 8kVA transformer, which seemed to combine the positives of the Burmester and Airlink, addressing their shortcomings, and adding a couple of other advantages as well.
And other than the change to a dedicated Entreq box for my CDP, Sablon cable loom, and here in the chapel a fairly major job of dedicated radial circuit with six dedicated lines to six duplexes in my loft space, that's been my journey.
Switching out the Westwick and not replacing it with another box, conditioner or otherwise, is a pretty major step in context of what I *always* thought was right.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Marc lives in the country now, when he listens to music his neighbors are all sleeping, they have to get up in the morning and milk the cows, his wife is mostly using battery operated devices when he spends his alone time with he Zu's in he attic !

You are basically describing nirvana for all ageing audiophiles Milan

 

[the sound of Tao]

That's pretty much it. My previous room was just awful for power, and acoustics, and I took to large and costly audio Elastoplasts.
First a Burmester 948 conditioner that benefitted transparency and 24/7 consistency, but was a liability on dynamics. Then a cheaper Airlink balanced 3kVA power transparency that helped with dynamics but introduced somewhat of a bass thin and edgy sound.
Then Entreq which ameliorated noise issues, no downsides.
Finally the 80kg+ Westwick balanced 8kVA transformer, which seemed to combine the positives of the Burmester and Airlink, addressing their shortcomings, and adding a couple of other advantages as well.
And other than the change to a dedicated Entreq box for my CDP, Sablon cable loom, and here in the chapel a fairly major job of dedicated radial circuit with six dedicated lines to six duplexes in my loft space, that's been my journey.
Switching out the Westwick and not replacing it with another box, conditioner or otherwise, is a pretty major step in context of what I *always* thought was right.

You went through and de-entreqed a while back and then later reintroduced them… I figure it is a good plan to periodically review and at times cycle treatments in and out to confirm that they’re still being beneficial. It’s pretty easy to take what is a good change at the time for granted and as permanence and become entrenched with infrastructure but change obviously can create potential for more ongoing change.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Indeed Graham. The effects of Entreq are still audible, just a lot less dramatic than in London. I'm not calling it yet for the transformer being out, need to see how my system settles down over a couple of weeks. But the change that my skeptical visitor predicted is immediately apparent, and certainly that attribute was present in the friend's system I visited yesterday, where this advice was offered to me.

 

[spiritofmusic]

My mate who got me to take this big step of removing the balanced transformer is now egging me on to install a 16A or 32A fuse in a dedicated Klangmodul or Hi Fi Tuning fuse holder to go in the MCB downstairs which supplies my loft. He's convinced it'll transform things here.
Third day into life sans balanced power, this is one of the best decisions I've made in my system. I've been running balanced or a conditioner for nearly two decades now. It's certainly new territory for me not to rely on anything to manage my power.

 

[PeterA]

My mate who got me to take this big step of removing the balanced transformer is now egging me on to install a 16A or 32A fuse in a dedicated Klangmodul or Hi Fi Tuning fuse holder to go in the MCB downstairs which supplies my loft. He's convinced it'll transform things here.
Third day into life sans balanced power, this is one of the best decisions I've made in my system. I've been running balanced or a conditioner for nearly two decades now. It's certainly new territory for me not to rely on anything to manage my power.

Marc, I learned the same lesson three or four years ago. And getting rid of stuff just expanded from there.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Marc, I learned the same lesson three or four years ago. And getting rid of stuff just expanded from there.

I've also learnt that every situation in audio requires individual analysis, no generalisations. So, I've removed the transformer, but my Entreq still has worth.
What this episode has taught me is that what *may* have been useful or positive once, may very well not be a few years down the track.
But that doesn't mean suddenly everything that was useful isn't.
I salute you for stripping it right back, to the basic core (best source, near unique horns and tubes that mesh well with them, and purest power delivery).
But trying a variety of different cheaper cables and footers hasn't proved successful, and I'm not about to strip out my acoustic panels that were shown to be so good when I installed them just two years ago.
The balanced transformer is just one misstep from me that is a good example of how a big step doesn't always work out long term for the best.

 

[pjwd]

I've also learnt that every situation in audio requires individual analysis, no generalisations. So, I've removed the transformer, but my Entreq still has worth.
What this episode has taught me is that what *may* have been useful or positive once, may very well not be a few years down the track.
But that doesn't mean suddenly everything that was useful isn't.
I salute you for stripping it right back, to the basic core (best source, near unique horns and tubes that mesh well with them, and purest power delivery).
But trying a variety of different cheaper cables and footers hasn't proved successful, and I'm not about to strip out my acoustic panels that were shown to be so good when I installed them just two years ago.
The balanced transformer is just one misstep from me that is a good example of how a big step doesn't always work out long term for the best.

Confirming that improvements still work over time is a great move ... you may have previously corrected by limiting something that treats the symptom but is not the cause. Acoustics is a great example. If you remove early reflections you achieve greater clarity.. your transformer might have done partially done this by rolling off the transients.
Having said that I would be surprised if a balanced transformer doesn't improve the front end gear as one thing that's common around the world is noisy mains power and although all designers claim they have fixed that in the psu design, cleaning up power seems to help... assuming no limiting.
In any case changing tweak combinations around is cheaper than buying new ones and it satisfies our neurosis
Phil

 

[bonzo75]

I've also learnt that every situation in audio requires individual analysis

I agree a big part of this hobby is the analysis of individuals on this forum - especially this thread