Visit to Marc C.'s (SpiritOfMusic's) House in England

[bonzo75]

Hi David, do you know where I can listen to stacked quads in the UK? Any audiophile you know who has a set up?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Hi Dave, thanks for the kind words.
I tell my GF everyday that I’m a man of taste and the best priorities, but strangely, she’s having none of it LOL.
The move to the chapel was a kind of one in a million chance, that we decided to grab w both hands, viz a highly motivated buyer for my London apartment, and us being the first people to view the chapel after a sale there had just fallen thru.
The stars were aligned on this one, and we couldn’t walk away.
Especially when I walked into the loft space to discover a potential audio den of the same area as my current apartment at the time, but a much more amenable shape/layout. This meant the potential to keep the scale of my old space but actually get that scale to sound way better.
Re different systems, I’m going to document them on a dedicated system thread soon when I can get some photos uploaded and get U.K. Paul of Z-Axis Audio fame to document his thoughts after his recent visit here.
Suffice to say, I’ve done the rounds, from an initial all-Roksan system in 1997, thence to another system in 2000. Where things really got interesting was discovering tubes via the Hovland HP200 pre, and now I was starting to rediscover my music. Epiphanies of high eff Zus, thus allowing SETs in the size of room that would normally preclude them, was a real education.
And this then led to my last serious round of upgrades in 2012-15. I remain of the opinion I’d need to spend at least £75k on another system to significantly up the ante on my current rig, and this expenditure isn’t forthcoming.
First, chapels don’t run themselves, my move here means I cannot indulge myself as easily on wholesale pricey components upgrades. And I love my system signature, so why would I change?
Second, I really do believe more mileage is to be had by optimising my current rig, and that’s why my current final upgrade obsession is with Stacores, to eliminate the last remaining weak link in my system ie the floor.
But yes Dave, I realise I’ve got lucky w this move, am blessed w an amazing room, and have found one combination of gear that really speaks to me (but may not speak to many others, I’m not so egocentric to believe my sound is anything other than my sound). Luckily I’ve had Blue58 and now UK Paul up for a day each, and both have been highly complimentary, while making constructive criticisms and advice to take things up a level, and also a visit from a pro audio installer who felt my sound was highly entertaining and immersive.
You’re v welcome to swing by, I know you don’t live a million miles away. There will be some common points of reference I’m sure btwn yr Tannoys and my Zus/SETs.

 

[rockitman]

Very cool home. Congrats !

 

[spiritofmusic]

Thanks Christian. From that photo of yr new place, I have some feeling as to how much you’ll love it. That big triple ht open plan space will just love yr new AS.

 

[bach_king]

Hi David, do you know where I can listen to stacked quads in the UK? Any audiophile you know who has a set up?

Hi Bonzo75

I was giving this some thought and though I do know of any specific examples apart from SME (which is completely atypical) However there is a forum called Hi Fi Wigwam which hosts vintage audio enthusiasts and I am sure that someone there will be able to help you. These guys are serious about their vintage kit and very keen to spread the gospel.

The SME example I used is not a good one because they have been heavily modified (much to Peter Walker’s disgust) to the point where Alastair Robertson-Aikman had heavy duty steel frames made in his factory. The system is also unique in that it uses Krell Master Reference Amplifiers. These things are 1000w per channel, date from 1974 and only 6 pairs were ever made. The price in 1974 was $100,000 per pair. Krell tried to convince ARA to take their new flagship models later but when he tried them he concluded that they were not as good as the ones he had. When he told Krell of his finding their response was to say that “We have to make a living”. In other words they were no longer making them to the quality that that had previously.

I will be interested to learn if you have a luck through Hi Fi Wigwam.

Kind regards

David

 

[bach_king]

Hi Marc

Thank you for the run down. Very interesting. My room is a little smaller, a more modest 23 x 20 x 10 (4500 cubic feet) and on the ground floor.

I was interested in your comments on what you might have to spend to better your present set up and I am sure that you are right. However if you had some insight into what actually determines the price of hi end kit I suspect that like me you would have a fairly jaundiced view. This is not really a subject to pursue in detail here - but perhaps something for a later discussion.

I agree with the point you make about set up. It is the most important thing in my view. If you have not already come across it, Jim Smiths book “Get Better Sound” has some very good suggestions. The key theme in his book is about getting your system to “play the room” by getting the loudspeakers properly positioned so that the system works with the accoustic properties of your listening space. Smith is an industry professional who over 35years has set up 3000+ system. It takes a lot of work to do the things he suggests, but the prize is worth the effort in my view and the difference is of the “night and day” variety. It took me 3 weeks on and off to sort my LS positioning. I think it yields bigger benefits than bankrupting yourself on new kit.

I would post some pictures but I don’t know how to do it. I am not much cop with computers!

Anyway keep smiling and most of all keep enjoyng your music.

Kind regards

David

 

[spiritofmusic]

Hi David, yes like you I’m finding that sweating the small stuff is proving unbelievably rewarding.
I know that had I stayed in my compromised previous room, I’d have been spending more and more on Entreq to patch up my RFI/EM polluted grid, and Shun Mooks plus GIKs to ameliorate my defective acoustics.
And I’d have probably got some way farther forward, but more patching up my issues rather than sorting them.
And I’m sure I’d have gone down the avenue of a new tt, pre amp and spkrs to get somewhere better. Who knows if this really would have satisfied me.
Over here in the chapel I had a decision to install the hifi in one of 3 rooms, the main expansive space 35x30x20 (useable 27x22x20), the much smaller 18x13x10 space, or the potentially most favourable loft space. And it was the third option I chose, in retrospect absolutely the best choice. I then got supremely lucky w the resultant acoustics, and had the possibility of a totally isolated electrical feed to the space, plus possibility of balanced transformer/multiple dedicated lines.
The room construct/bespoke grid install took up nearly a third of the total budget for the whole chapel restoration, but as project manager (AKA the guy w the cheque book LOL) I felt it was a once in a lifetime chance to get something v special, a smaller version of Mike Lavigne’s magic in this quiet part of Eastern England.
And the risk has payed off handsomely, my music playback using exactly the same core components as back in London has taken on a startling realism, warmth and headroom to spare.
And now every change I make has almost immediate, and instantly recognisable benefits or hindrances, often extremely dramatic.
David, it’s good like you to be at a point where the instinctive drive to always be upgrading main gear is better diverted into getting the room right, spkrs position optimised, gear out of the way, attention to power grid, vibration isolation (a real passion of mine currently).
No disrespect to those still on the search for better/more suitable components.

 

[bach_king]

Hi Marc


The reason it yields such huge benefits is because it is not small at all but actually very important. It often takes many hours of painstaking work to unlock the performance improvements which you describe. The only sense in which it is “small’ is in terms of expenditure.

All the best

Kind regards

David

 

[Uk Paul]

As Marc mentioned earlier I did indeed get the chance to visit him last week, and got to see the length's Marc has gone to to optimise his system sound, with pretty much every aspect covered, with particular attention to mains power, component isolation, grounding and cabling. As many will realise Marc has gone through some seriously frustrating periods with a long list of upgrades and it seems that now he is begining to hear the fruits of his labour with a more immersive and 3d sound than he previously had. Listening to the system for the first time last week, the first thing to jump out was that you feel the music / soundstage wrap around you in a deep and wide manner, with excellent imaging in the central area between the speakers, thus giving a very front row seat, quite different to the panel experience that I have here where a longer triangle is definately preferred. Marc has definately gone to great length's with the room, being originally the loft space, so fully timbered internally, and re engineering this is no simple task, or cost, but given his options I do think this was the best decision without doubt..

Listening to some familiar Lp's demonstrated that tonality was good, well balanced with nice body to vocals that can be quite wayward in some systems, not here though thankfully! Good extension top and bottom too, better than i had expected given that the Zu's are reported to roll off at 11k , which I beleive is correct Marc?

This system is another example of more than the sum of the parts though, it is the result of many month's fine tuning and experimenting, and Marc is commended for his patience and resolve to get through it and still have his hair , well done Marc..

pls forgive the poor photo quality!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Paul, thanks for that. I’d been pretty unsure about my sound off analog until just a couple of months ago, only just recently becoming confident the sound was up to snuff. And then truly happy in the last week leading up to yr visit when finally unlocking the conundrum of Zu subs crossover settings magic, best toe in of Zus and seating distance from them, and 95% burn in of major and minor analog-based mods and upgrades.
So, it was really something to find you liked the sound so much, esp as someone who has one of the most, if not the best, balanced, transparent and characterless/uncoloured, systems I’ve had the good fortune to hear (and I’ve heard a good few dozen over the decades).
As someone who has a truly open window type sound for acoustic, voice and classical, natural warmth, accurate timbre, density of tone, unforced dynamics, and easy imaging/staging, are all pretty vital to relaxed enjoyment and succeeding in the illusion of live.
I think I’m getting there w these, and it was genuinely rewarding to find my efforts were appreciated and confirmed by you.
There was a comment that owners of systems can be overly defensive about their sound when having guests over. I actually felt dutybound to lay out what I felt were ongoing shortcomings, and was adamant you were honest about yr opinions. Otherwise how do we learn where our biases may be misleading us.
It’ll tickle WBF readers that the more time I spent dissing my sound to you, the more you disagreed!
Thanks again.
*PS, Zu full range NanoTec treated Eminence drivers cover 35Hz-12kHz, Radian 850 supertweeters carry on to 20kHz, downfiring Hypex-pwrd Lab-12 Eminence subs w special order Lundahl transformers go down to 20Hz.

 

[Rodney Gold]

Hehehehe.. you need professional help

 

[spiritofmusic]

Rodney, maybe WBF can strike up a package deal w psychotherapists where audiofools worldwide can talk thru their OCD vices w hardcore professionals
I suspect it’s easier to help PTSD from serving in Afghanistan then it is the issues we all suffer from .

 

[Zero000]

Rodney, maybe WBF can strike up a package deal w psychotherapists where audiofools worldwide can talk thru their OCD vices w hardcore professionals
I suspect it’s easier to help PTSD from serving in Afghanistan then it is the issues we all suffer from ????.

Nope it's just you Mark (big smile nearly laughing here)!

Glad you had a good time with Paul. It is a bit freaky having people around, wondering what they are really thinking. But very enjoyable to share nonetheless. I had a Tannoy fan around yesterday, heard his system a while ago. And very good it was to.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I’m gonna take all this chat of my crazy efforts as a massive compliment/kudos.
The move here gave me this one time only chance to really carve out a space maybe only beaten by the kind of space MikeL has (and other guys who have insane amounts of cash to get acousticians on board).
Mains to room isolated from rest of chapel, dedicated lines, even and symmetrical, and warm, sympathetic listening space.
£60k total spend with NO idea of final outcome is a special kind of stress I can tell you.
And so for the sound to be at a conservative estimate 1000% better than the same gear in London when powering up and listening to that first cd (and this via cheap’n’nasty stock pwr cords into domestic sockets), well, blessed relief isn’t quite the phrase.
OTOH, listening to my first lp 9 months later having just spent £10k on umpteen upgrades to my analog, filled me w absolute dread depression that I’d truly fouled up big time.
15 weeks later, and I couldn’t be a happier audiophile.

 

[caesar]

Hi Spirit,

I second the congratulatory comments of others on your system! Just a few more questions (and comments):

- When I hear the high-efficiency stuff at shows, I am usually emotionally engaged, almost immediately. This is in part because high efficiency speakers are able to get the tone and texture right, along with expressing dynamics in the music. And if you can get that right, you have a great achievement at a show... Rarely do well-marketed box speakers are able to the tonal richness right... and in fairness, the fans of those speakers would call that tonal richness i am referring to a distracting coloration...

In fact, when I enjoy high-efficiency stuff, I could care less about the audiophile vocabulary - music goes straight to the heart.

I am assuming your Zus can do the audiophile vocabulary also. Is this a correct assumption? And do you care at all about the audiophile vocabulary? I am assuming NO when you are listening. But maybe when you are reflecting on the listening session, post fact?

- What's your take on Audion amplification vs. NAT, at least on the Zus? And what happens to the Zu sound as you throw more wpc at it?

- I know Zus are amazing at rock, and its variants. Very few speakers do rock as well or better. And those other speakers that rock well are usually very expensive and are also coupled to very expensive amps...Rock aside, do you enjoy other musical genres with them also? How's the overall MUSICAL TRANSPARENCY of the Zus?


Thank you! Keep Enjoying!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Hi Caesar, I’m a massive fan of my chosen system philosophy, but like all approaches, it can take time, and no little hair pulling to get right.
I’ll freely admit, I’ve run Zus thru 2 flagship models (and major mods to most recent pair), and I’m still learning lots about them, finding out how good they are, and am still trying to minimise their shortcomings.
A decade in, they’re still proving to be surprising, and indeed a simple change in the last 48 hrs has supercharged them, for the massive spend of £0.00 LOL.
Your points in turn.
First, the emotional connection thing. For some this means uber detail resolution, leading edge energy. For others, spooky transparency and join the dots imaging.
For me, and it was evident in the first few songs I heard at the initial audition in 2008, it’s tone density, “shove” and flow. The Zus just seemed to get to the heart of the matter.
I listened to John Coltrane “Live At Village Vanguard”, Previn conducts Holst “Planets Suite” and Stomu Yamashta “Go” lps, and the Zus unwavering ability to reproduce that tone density, creamy flow, easy dynamics, and critically get this at lower volume levels, totally beguiled me, and 30 mins later I bought them.
Second pair in 2013, and major Duelunds and Lundahls upgrades in 2015. And in 2018, in a room to die for, they’re better than ever.
Now, this tone dense sound is not for everyone, it can sound one-note, plodding and harsh if you get it wrong. And on the basis of what I hear now, I was getting it somewhat wrong in my last room.
But all the way along, I remained drawn in to how the gestalt of music just seemed so much more compelling, never hearing an alternate presentation that properly convinced me to move past the Zus.
And so the completing of them has been the perfect synergy w Nat 211s, a room acoustics and power grid as close to ideal as I could reasonably have hoped for, and small changes to system setup.
The phrase I used on PM to you, the Zus grabbing yr heart and not letting go, I really do feel that, even after a decade of ownership.
Second, re audiophile checklist, this certainly is where Zu doesn’t score traditionally. Ironically it’s USP of tone density, creamy flow and midband shove, can be at the expense of absolute transparency, strictly neutral tonal balance, and join the dots imaging. And this can be highlighted if the amps choice is poor, or the room acoustics are harsh/power grid polluted. Certainly in my old room, the acoustics and power left a lot to be desired, and some visitors really felt the Zus were a bit impenetrable or uneven.
It’s really been since I installed them here that so much of this has been ameriolated, so that now I’ve kept and enhanced Zu USPs, but added a whole dimension of neutrality, transparency, imaging and air.
It was so rewarding to hear that UK-Paul who runs a very impressive and expansive sound himself, felt my Zus have a good degree of 3D wrap around image. He’d never have said this in London.
Indeed this recent small change I’ve made has really taken the Zus a long way to invisibility, yer not losing their certainty of tone and flow.
NAT 211s v Audion 845s, I could live w either. However the NATs have an uncanny density and heft that absolutely suit the Zus, and esp my current and previous rooms (both 800 sq ft, but v different shapes/challenges), that I’m sure I’ve made the right choice. Put it this way, I heard the NATs at the same time I bought the Audions, not one day went past in the 2 years hence that I didn’t think about the NATs (so had to buy them).
Re genres, yes you’d have to say the Zus are sort of rock spkrs.
This is partly the fault of head designer Sean Casey and the guys at Zu, they’ve procured this motorbiking/snow boarding/Blue Collar image and I don’t know too many sax players who go dirt biking LOL. Additionally, Sean the DJ at shows would rather spin some Americana or Electronica lps, not the usual audiophile fare.
Ironically the tone density gestalt is just as relevant to jazz, classical and vocals as it is to rock, and I’m now particularly discovering this as I wade thru one classical lp after another, esp w the Zu tone/flow thing intact in the new room, but shortcomings minimised alowing me to hear right thru into the music. I can now truly say Zu is an all round spkr great for rock, badly produced stuff too, but also jazz, classical, vocal, indeed across all genres. Yes, the Zus are really becoming transparent.
I’m more excited today about high eff Zus/SETs then I was when I discovered Zu a decade ago. That’s gotta mean something.

 

[spiritofmusic]

In conjunction w my “winding down” thread, and this one, that I’m so chuffed guys here are interested in, I thought I’d talk about my journey and system evolution.
Warning, I’m no Mike Lavigne...

 

[spiritofmusic]

PRE-HISTORY
1981-1997
Well, I’m in hospital as a 16 yr old having my wisdom teeth out, and I chance across HiFi News And Record Review, and in depth reports on Linn LP12/Naim multi amps/Linn Isobarik active, and initial Meridian line, the building block pre/power system, and M1 active spkrs.
I’m hooked on hifi, you can keep yr Lamborghini Countach and porn - yes sad, although I did return to the latter .
I seek out Graham’s HiFi in N London, camp there for a decade, and plan my future. Yes, £5k on LP12/Naim/Linn Sara’s (30 years later I’ve spent 40x that amount).
I then have a serious wobble when cd comes along and wipes out vinyl in the late 80s, and toy w scrapping my vinyl for cd, and now spending my budget on Meridian 207Pro cdp and M10 active spkrs, ooh looking closer to £7k now. They even talked cables w me, you what?!
Good thing I was a poor student, lp buying was all I could afford.
Then in early 90s I hear Wilson Watt Puppies/Krell amps/Accuphase cdp/VPI tt, now you’re talking...yes, that £5-7k budget is a bit blown, and I’m only just starting my Osteopathic career. Better hold off.
Then I hear an all Roksan system, it kind of speaks to me, and you know what, I can afford the £10k needed.
1997- my first proper system. And hated it from Day One - yes, I’m a self- loathing audiofool before I’ve even properly started LOL...

 

[dctom]

Spent a very pleasant afternoon visiting Marc recently and listening in his purpose built loft space. I was very envious of the room he had created it seemed ideal for a dedicated installation.

Marc’s is a very different system to my own. Apart from the, obviously, different brands, his is much more reliant on valve amplification than mine.

The initial impression was of being further away from the music. I am used to a more forward sound. Hearing M’s tube driven power amps produced a very different experience to the sort of sound I am accustomed to. We listened mostly to vinyl but we did also try some digital for contrast.

Aspects I liked in particular; vocals had a full fleshed out tone, the mids/upper bass felt palpable, overall the sound was quite rich tending towards the warm side but not overly so . This was a relaxed easy flowing sound, an ethereal languid piece (an ecm John Abercrombie/Erskine live LP) M played, sounded very atmospheric . Listening fatigue would not be an issue I felt.

As a contrast, an Ashkenazy Chopin LP I had brought over sounded less intense than I am used to. I enjoy a percussive presentation with more extended highs, the keys hitting the strings and hints of the piano’s action being apparent. I also have the benefit of extensive sub reinforcement so the growling lower notes are more visceral.

I have a very limited experience of listening to hi-end gear (other than my own) in a domestic environment. It was educational listening to Marc’s gear and and talking to him about his priorities. Seeing how another enthusiast has developed their system from a different perspective to ones own.

Hopefully Marc will get over to me in the near future to give his perspective on my system.

Spent a very pleasant afternoon visiting Marc recently and listening in his purpose built loft space. I was very envious of the room he had created it seemed ideal for a dedicated installation.

Marc’s is a very different system to my own. Apart from the, obviously, different brands, his is much more reliant on valve amplification than mine.

The initial impression was of being further away from the music. I am used to a more forward sound. Hearing M’s tube driven power amps produced a very different experience to the sort of sound I am accustomed to. We listened mostly to vinyl but we did also try some digital for contrast.

Aspects I liked in particular; vocals had a full fleshed out tone, the mids/upper bass felt palpable, overall the sound was quite rich tending towards the warm side but not overly so . This was a relaxed easy flowing sound, an ethereal languid piece (an ecm John Abercrombie/Erskine live LP) M played, sounded very atmospheric . Listening fatigue would not be an issue I felt.

As a contrast, an Ashkenazy Chopin LP I had brought over sounded less intense than I am used to. I enjoy a percussive presentation with more extended highs, the keys hitting the strings and hints of the piano’s action being apparent. I also have the benefit of extensive sub reinforcement so the growling lower notes are more visceral.

I have a very limited experience of listening to hi-end gear (other than my own) in a domestic environment. It was educational listening to Marc’s gear and and talking to him about his priorities. Seeing how another enthusiast has developed their system from a different perspective to ones own.

Hopefully Marc will get over to me in the near future to give his perspective on my system.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Dave, as they said in naming NYC, you liked your visit so much that you posted me twice LOL.

Thanks for the words, I can quite imagine your system might be somewhat harder hitting being fully active SS, and studio grade transducers.

It’s been over a decade since I partially moved to tubes, five years since losing SS completely.

I have contemplated this change from time to time, and indeed visiting U.K. Paul Z Axis Audio with his SS Concert Fidelity/ML Spires panels gave me lots of food for thought.