Vinyl obsession
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An absolute then .. We finally found one in Audio. We must praise this day.
.@XV-1
Of course I understood you listen to music first and by that I don't mean that you listen to CD at all. Sut since many if not most music these days, as pointed by microstrip, is digitally manipulated you must perforce listen to digital knowingly or unknowingly. I do accept it as a fact that the process of going through a vinyl playback production and reproduction chain is important to you and or confer the music, sonic superiority to your ears.. that is fine but you do listen to digital.
An absolute then .. We finally found one in Audio. We must praise this day.
@XV-1
Of course I understood you listen to music first and by that I don't mean that you listen to CD at all. Sut since many if not most music these days, as pointed by microstrip, is digitally manipulated you must perforce listen to digital knowingly or unknowingly. I do accept it as a fact that the process of going through a vinyl playback production and reproduction chain is important to you and or confer the music, sonic superiority to your ears.. that is fine but you do listen to digital.
Well, to be absolutely factual. Nobody listens to digital. We all listen in analog.
One simple reason why the playback device that follows best the analog waveform sounds best - vinyl. Most will attest that high end tape sounds best, but availability is so poor - lp's like it or not are the best sounding commercially available format.
But, enjoy your cd's listening in analog.
I must say when I started the thread I was idlely wondering what others thought on the cost effectiveness of vinyl, given the standard of digital now. I was locked in to vinyl, my interest in hifi beginning in the 70s, it was vinyl and R to R tape. Cassette came along but never approached vinyl quality for me.
The SQ of digital v analogue debate is a huge can of worms - and then you have the issue of what analogue rig is being compared to which digital set-up. This gives rise to an endless "yes but, no but, what if" commentary, which is no bad thing I guess as the object of the forum is to encourage discourse. However there is no doubt, IMO, digital has improved much in the last few years, especially with hi-resolution being more available.
Seeing the cartoon just made me think of how much more it had cost me to maintain the vinyl habit at a serious level, compared to seriously good digital.
Also the fact that to obtain the very best sort of sound from vinyl, generally, one needs to obtain audiophile releases at pretty steep prices, often re-releases of vintage LPs. I am not really interested in endless re-releases of Kind of blue, Sticky fingers, DSOTM et al. Hi-rez downloads are usually much cheaper and as microstrip points out most new vinyl releases are recorded in the digital domain.
The quality of new vinyl is also very mixed, I have often had to return albums to obtain a half decent copy. They often still have surface noise even after ultra sonic cleaning. Frequently 30yr or 40 yr old 2nd hand albums sound better (after cleaning). There are exceptions and when you get them it is a bit of a hallelujah moment. It shouldn't be but regardless of what we spend on gear the sound quality is always dictated by the recording/mastering/pressing issue.
The SQ of digital v analogue debate is a huge can of worms - and then you have the issue of what analogue rig is being compared to which digital set-up. This gives rise to an endless "yes but, no but, what if" commentary, which is no bad thing I guess as the object of the forum is to encourage discourse. However there is no doubt, IMO, digital has improved much in the last few years, especially with hi-resolution being more available.
Seeing the cartoon just made me think of how much more it had cost me to maintain the vinyl habit at a serious level, compared to seriously good digital.
Also the fact that to obtain the very best sort of sound from vinyl, generally, one needs to obtain audiophile releases at pretty steep prices, often re-releases of vintage LPs. I am not really interested in endless re-releases of Kind of blue, Sticky fingers, DSOTM et al. Hi-rez downloads are usually much cheaper and as microstrip points out most new vinyl releases are recorded in the digital domain.
The quality of new vinyl is also very mixed, I have often had to return albums to obtain a half decent copy. They often still have surface noise even after ultra sonic cleaning. Frequently 30yr or 40 yr old 2nd hand albums sound better (after cleaning). There are exceptions and when you get them it is a bit of a hallelujah moment. It shouldn't be but regardless of what we spend on gear the sound quality is always dictated by the recording/mastering/pressing issue.
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Comparing used analog prices prices with new digital prices is misleading. You can now get excellent sounding digital for about one third retail price, even less if you just want to play CDs.
I can refer to occasions where digital sounded much better than analog and vice-versa. Most of the time question of recording and system composition.
Unfortunately the thread is drifting - it seemed to me the idea was to know what people do and why, not what they think others must do or what is the best.
I didn't mean to compare. I was saying his 8k is probably right, possibly a bit more, than stating what I think.The crossover points are. Whether one crosses those points used or new is upto them
Lots of good ECM on vinyl...lots. Some of my very best recordings are vinyl ECMs, like Chick Corea's 1981 improvisations for trio...amazing sound quality and playing.
You have a point - debating vinyl is not the same thing as debating analog or digital.
Considering vinyl sounds better the majority of the time is an expression of your music choices, preference or inadequacy of the digital system, nothing else. We should surely respect it.
But people can have different views on this hobby, not just the what matters is music. We naturally optimize the systems for the type of music we prefer and naturally avoid music that does not sound good our systems. IMHO , feeling sorry for people in this hobby is just misunderstanding it.
Time is precious. With vinyl you have to get up and change sides at least every 20 minutes and for me that is more often. I don't listen to the crappy tracks that are on 99% of every album. I want to skip them, so with vinyl it's up and down every few minutes. For me that is no way to enjoy music.
At this point, this whole vinyl vs digital is really just a subjective and personal thing. I have a decent vinyl rig but my digital sounds better - at least currently (it's been the other way around in the past).
Sometimes I love that vinyl makes me get up and flip it, sometimes, like when eating dinner, it's a real pita.
Sometimes I love that vinyl makes me get up and flip it, sometimes, like when eating dinner, it's a real pita.
I like every 3 months different source
When I bought my Shelter Harmony , I prefered vinyl.
Then I rediscovered sacd's from La Fontaine, what a soundstage and holography, especially with classical Living Stereo recordings.
Then I upgraded my Big 7 and bought Siltech Rouby Mountain II power cord and Salamandra unpowered usb cable.
Now I cannot say which one is better. They are a bit different - sacd more precise and transparent, Big 7 more organic and palpable. With best vinyls I feel a touch of MUSIC, but not all of them are of good quality, pops and cliks exist, it' s a reality.
What I really like about my 3 sources is to compare them as a part of the hobby and be able to play vinyls, cd/sacds and files , I enjoy them all.
Since 3 weeks I can ripp my sacd's and play them as DSD files with my Big 7, I am listennig right now to the album " Spain" by Living Stereo as DSF 64 files.
When I bought my Shelter Harmony , I prefered vinyl.
Then I rediscovered sacd's from La Fontaine, what a soundstage and holography, especially with classical Living Stereo recordings.
Then I upgraded my Big 7 and bought Siltech Rouby Mountain II power cord and Salamandra unpowered usb cable.
Now I cannot say which one is better. They are a bit different - sacd more precise and transparent, Big 7 more organic and palpable. With best vinyls I feel a touch of MUSIC, but not all of them are of good quality, pops and cliks exist, it' s a reality.
What I really like about my 3 sources is to compare them as a part of the hobby and be able to play vinyls, cd/sacds and files , I enjoy them all.
Since 3 weeks I can ripp my sacd's and play them as DSD files with my Big 7, I am listennig right now to the album " Spain" by Living Stereo as DSF 64 files.
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Hi
Well ... call this an evolution or a coming to term or ...
This kind of thread a few months ago would have come out as an overwhelming majority of people supporting their vinyl as the"end-of-it-and-that's-that" sprinkled with a good amount of condescension for those who don't come out enough to know that Vinyl is naturally superior to anything digital.. Today, however it turns out at the end: descent to the abyss, thread blowing up , trolling , etc., it is clear that a growing number, not yet a majority ( in due time )take their digital more seriously, respect it , are quite satisfied with it and consider it their preferred medium for enjoying music ...
Interesting. Digital has finally arrived to the WBF.
for many
for some
Well ... call this an evolution or a coming to term or ...
This kind of thread a few months ago would have come out as an overwhelming majority of people supporting their vinyl as the"end-of-it-and-that's-that" sprinkled with a good amount of condescension for those who don't come out enough to know that Vinyl is naturally superior to anything digital
.. Today, however it turns out at the end: descent to the abyss, thread blowing up , trolling , etc., it is clear that a growing number, not yet a majority ( in due time )take their digital more seriously, respect it , are quite satisfied with it and consider it their preferred medium for enjoying music ... Interesting. Digital has finally arrived to the WBF.
for many for some
The tactile experience of playing vinyl is a hugely important factor for me. I somehow feel much more connected to the music and that is why I prefer playing vinyl. I don't nearly get as emotionally involved with digital.
The same for me. I listen classical and mainly voices choral music, opera... and with vinyl I can imagine I am at opera not with digital.
Recently I was listening to a Linn record of symphonic music and disliked a lot how it was made. You could not imaging being in the symphonic hall.
Easy to understand considering your excellent, but vintage equipment. Although I enjoy vintage equipment, most of the times it sounds miserable with digital.
Thanks! I already have the BDP 160, but still did not have the time to install the software. Knowing of your success I will try to do it as soon as I get some time. How long did you need to get it working?
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