Valin, Mr. DSP

[thedudeabides]

Seems everybody likes to hate JV, until he gives a glowing review of the speakers they own.

Like all generalizations, this is simply not true. He likes MBL's, which I own.

 

[Brucemck2]

It's not so much that he changes speakers so frequently (speaker of the nano-second) but that the speakers that he switches from/to are many times so incredibly different in their sonic signature. So how can the Magico be the speaker of all time but them a DSP horn speaker replaces it?? They could not sound more different!

I don't find this the least bit odd. I've bought giant line arrays because their "slam" and "dynamics" and life sized imaging grabbed me. I purchased ultra-precise three ways because their microscopic precision grabbed me. I bought some exotic full range single driver units and matching 300B amps because their gorgeous tone (particularly on vocals) grabbed me. I'm currently playing with actively crossed horns, perhaps coming full circle back to dynamics. All were different, and were I writer all would have been written up as being interesting.

That being said, he does have a habit of serial hyperbole.

 

[Priaptor]

Mr. Valin, as a member of the old school Absolute Sound, is, as is Harry Pearson, a subjective reviewer. He writes about what he hears, not how something measures. Like him or not, he writes about what he is hearing. Like Mike L., I too got my first real feel for Kharma loudspeakers when JV had a pair of champagne gold 3.2 in his room for a number of years. He and Lloyd Walker were the first two people that I knew of that listened to Kharma loudspeakers

To an extent. HP in his heyday told it the way it was. He was the best and unfortunately the standard that everyone was afraid to follow. While most modern products are good find me a modern day review of a product that isn't the "best" only to followed by the new "best". Even if it isn't described as the "best" they all get glowing reviews. HP in his day differentiated and his word, whether you agreed with him or not, was honest.

Yes JV is a subjective reviewer and I too like reading his reviews BUT I understand his bias leads him to sway his opinions and give certain products second, third, etc chances he would never give others: such as Magico's 600k horns. He like most reviewers get perks that most mere mortals would never get which I am sure effects his "subjectivity" but show me a reviewer that is different.

HP had a relative stable and methodical method to his evaluation no matter how excruciatingly slow it was to go from what he heard to the printed page. First and foremost was how the product allowed him to experience the music. His reviews, IMO, were the best and one of the few I trusted.

 

[dallasjustice]

There's nothing wrong with trying out different approaches to this hobby. I simply object to Valin offering vacuous nonsequeter criticism for one specific approach in 2013. Then in 2014, Valin becomes the great ambassador promoting the previously scorned approach to music reproduction.

 

[Garth]

...

 

[Bruce B]

There's nothing wrong with trying out different approaches to this hobby. I simply object to Valin offering vacuous nonsequeter criticism for one specific approach in 2013. Then in 2014, Valin becomes the great ambassador promoting the previously scorned approach to music reproduction.

It happened to a few of us Pro's years ago when we were first touting the use of DSD. Now everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon!

 

[JackD201]

Like all generalizations, this is simply not true. He likes MBL's, which I own.

That's why they are called generalizations. In case you missed it, here it is again It's called a smiley.

 

[Dre_J]

All sarcasm aside. Mr. Valin from the Absolute Sound has come full circle now. In the October 2013 review of the Raidho c4.1 he said "DSP can NEVER work."
...

There's nothing wrong with trying out different approaches to this hobby. I simply object to Valin offering vacuous nonsequeter criticism for one specific approach in 2013. Then in 2014, Valin becomes the great ambassador promoting the previously scorned approach to music reproduction.

That section of comments in the October 2013 print article of the C4.1 were about drivers of different material and how correction with signal processing did not make them all sound the same. The point was that signal processing is not a silver bullet.

Anyone can read the section of that review and see exactly what I'm talking about: 4 different drivers with signal processing applied and they all still sounded different and unique to the observers.

Why are you distorting those comments from the C4.1 review?

 

[dallasjustice]

Thanks for trying to rewrite Valin's 2013 article. However, I've offered a direct and unambiguous quote: "DSP can NEVER work." Your rewrite doesn't fit with others' interpretations either:

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/forums/threads/159/

That section of comments in the October 2013 print article of the C4.1 were about drivers of different material and how correction with signal processing did not make them all sound the same. The point was that signal processing is not a silver bullet.

Anyone can read the section of that review and see exactly what I'm talking about: 4 different drivers with signal processing applied and they all still sounded different and unique to the observers.

Why are you distorting those comments from the C4.1 review?

 

[edorr]

Like all generalizations, this is simply not true.

Think about that one a bit. The statement is itself a generalization, which according to the statement has to be false. So is the statement is true, it contradicts itself. I think this is an instance of the classical liars paradox ..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar_paradox

 

[Dre_J]

Thanks for trying to rewrite Valin's 2013 article. However, I've offered a direct and unambiguous quote: "DSP can NEVER work." Your rewrite doesn't fit with others' interpretations either:

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/forums/threads/159/

Instead of finding someone else's comments, why don't you post the actual text of the article? There is an entire paragraph that goes with those 4 words that shapes the narrative of that comment which aligns with what I said. After all, that is what you were talking about. Let's not move off topic to muddy the waters...

Again I ask: Why are you distorting those comments from the C4.1 review?

 

[rbbert]

Regardless of the specifics in this instance, Valin's flip-flops on any number of audio issues are well known. He may in fact be a careful listener, but his opinions are too changeable to be trusted.

 

[Priaptor]

My biggest problem with JV is that like the American Gov't he picks the winners and the losers. If it is a company (that just happens to place speakers in his house for years, pay for expensive trips to their factories, etc) that woos him, he will go to all levels to find a way to sing the product's praises. I again use the example of Magico 600K horns, which he panned at the Munich show, which any other product, it would have been over. Not Magico, when Alon invited him (surely all expenses paid) to the "bunker room" at the Magico factory where JV was able to "hear the speaker the way it was meant to be heard". I can make the same claims about Crystal, Raidho, etc. and DJ's example is no different.

I don't think JV "evolves" in the parlance of our politicians but revolves around where the money is. Not to say that the products he gives special attention to aren't good, but the point is THE WHY behind what products get special attention.

I don't buy the whole schtick.

 

[asiufy]

Now, sorta playing the devil's advocate... TAS' justification for the Magico (over?) exposure was that they were just following and reporting on their target market. They saw something worth reporting on, and they are proud to be the first mag to report, not only on Magicos, but other brands too.

So, it's anyone's guess their true intentions behind all the exposure they give to certain brands. Is it bonafide journalistic interest? Do they really want to cover this up and coming new brand, with great speakers that are sort of different from the usual "paper cones in wood boxes", or they just want to make new kings?

The fact is, nobody was stopping OTHER journals from doing the same. AFAIK, Magico is willing to let people into their "vault", even customers. Why wouldn't they allow people from Stereophile, or any other online mag? Stereophile has a local reviewer in SF that could cover that. Perhaps we should be asking the contrary: why the OTHER mags are not covering a $600k speaker, playing in a highly customized room built in the factory!


alexandre

 

[Priaptor]

Now, sorta playing the devil's advocate... TAS' justification for the Magico (over?) exposure was that they were just following and reporting on their target market. They saw something worth reporting on, and they are proud to be the first mag to report, not only on Magicos, but other brands too.

So, it's anyone's guess their true intentions behind all the exposure they give to certain brands. Is it bonafide journalistic interest? Do they really want to cover this up and coming new brand, with great speakers that are sort of different from the usual "paper cones in wood boxes", or they just want to make new kings?

The fact is, nobody was stopping OTHER journals from doing the same. AFAIK, Magico is willing to let people into their "vault", even customers. Why wouldn't they allow people from Stereophile, or any other online mag? Stereophile has a local reviewer in SF that could cover that. Perhaps we should be asking the contrary: why the OTHER mags are not covering a $600k speaker, playing in a highly customized room built in the factory!


alexandre

The point you are missing in my post is that JV doesn't give other manufacturers the same chance as he does Magico, Raidho, Crystal or any other manufacturer that happens to pay for his prolonged "loaner" equipment or all expense included visits to their factories. I read on these forums and so many others about "objective criteria" in assessing equipment and NOTHING could be less objective than bias introduced by the practices JV lends himself to; even though most here believe he is a subjectivist.

Sorry, I don't buy it.

Most of the reviewing business is a joke. JV, who happens to be probably one of the smarter more articulate reviewers who does have a flair for description, while interesting reads, can't be trusted for any conclusions he makes. If the public is dumb enough to ignore the bias, hey it's their money and long live Alon Wolf and the rest who are getting richer with every article he writes. WHAT ME WORRY

 

[asiufy]

Priaptor,

I see your point, but aren't you going too far by saying that JV doesn't give the other manufacturers the same chance? I mean, do you know for sure that your favourite brand hasn't invited JV to an all expenses paid trip to their factory, and/or a long-term review loan? Do you think he'll decline either?

As I said, it's a lot more worrisome the fact that other rags are not going after the "news", than JV, or TAS, doing it.


alexandre

 

[thedudeabides]

I read on these forums and so many others about "objective criteria" in assessing equipment and NOTHING could be less objective than bias introduced by the practices JV lends himself to; even though most here believe he is a subjectivist.

Well said Alexandre.

 

[Priaptor]

Priaptor,

I see your point, but aren't you going too far by saying that JV doesn't give the other manufacturers the same chance? I mean, do you know for sure that your favourite brand hasn't invited JV to an all expenses paid trip to their factory, and/or a long-term review loan? Do you think he'll decline either?

As I said, it's a lot more worrisome the fact that other rags are not going after the "news", than JV, or TAS, doing it.


alexandre

To be honest I don't think many others are. Not because they don't want to but because most can't afford to.

There is no doubt, in mind at least, that if JV heard an expensive speaker at a show that sounded bad he would have given it the same latitude as he did the Magico.

Since HP left the picture (and I mean the real and original HP) reviews don't help me all that much. I still like reading about the latest stuff but for entertainment rather than guidance.

 

[asiufy]

I still like reading about the latest stuff but for entertainment rather than guidance.

And that's where, IMHO, lies the appeal of audio magazines. Opinion pieces (reviews) should be only a portion of them, not their reason to exist. Information and entertainment should be higher on their priorities.

I think a nice factory tour, or a technical article, has at least the same value (if not more) than a review.


alexandre

 

[Priaptor]

And that's where, IMHO, lies the appeal of audio magazines. Opinion pieces (reviews) should be only a portion of them, not their reason to exist. Information and entertainment should be higher on their priorities.

I think a nice factory tour, or a technical article, has at least the same value (if not more) than a review.


alexandre

Yes a "tour" is quite different than a review. Unfortunately JV particularly with the Magico 600k horns gave Magico a glowing review on his "tour" on a product he previously panned and something he wouldn't do for others unless of course possibly it involved an all expense paid "tour" say to Denmark.