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[edorr]

Funny, I tried a Power Plant Premier and it made virtually no difference in my system. I then tried a Shunyata V-Ray II and it made a huge (positive) difference. I guess it depends on the system and the quality of the electrical power.

Audio is not an exact science. The term Voodoo is more approprate. I used the highly acclaimed Furman Reference 20i before getting a Powerplant and it did nothing for my system at all. Having said that, I may need an additional conditioner if I decide to reconfigure my system and will probably try a Shunyata for camparison against the PS audio P5.

 

[microstrip]

Really? Why be skeptical? Is acoustics such a black art?

Speakers and room. Those are the main things. Everything else sure it makes a difference but those are they key things for me.

No doubt. IMHO small room acoustics for stereo is a black art. There are no defined rules and every wizard has its own approach and interpretation of measurements. We can have an idea of what is needed for an average / good sounding room, but no 100% sure recipe for a great sounding room.

Please note that I consider room acoustics of utmost importance.

 

[edorr]

I'm no acoustics expert by any means, but from what I have personally experienced, it takes a lot of bass traps to make a difference in a typical room and usually the bass traps need to be fairly large. I have tried one smaller product that had zero effect that I could detect/measure so it's hard not to be skeptical about something as small as the product in question. And even with the larger bass traps, I can't help but feel that getting the speakers in the exact right position would have a larger effect on the overall presentation.

I had no success with basstraps until I put big floor to ceiling cornertraps in. It seems to me the laws of physics at work limit what can be achieved with smaller panels, no matter what magical properties the material may possess.

On a different note, can you share some first impressions of the results of the voicing session with Jim?

 

[dallasjustice]

Speaker position is very important but cannot come close to resolving the bass issues in virtually any sheetrock mid to small size room.

 

[Steve Williams]

Speaker position is very important but cannot come close to resolving the bass issues in virtually any sheetrock mid to small size room.

I agree with this as well

 

[PeterA]

Speaker position is very important but cannot come close to resolving the bass issues in virtually any sheetrock mid to small size room.

This in part is where proper speaker selection comes into play. In a small room, smaller dynamic speakers or panels might work better than larger dynamic/cone speakers.

My room is 15' X 16' X 7.5' and I use sealed two-way stand-mounted speakers. I might someday try larger floor standing three-ways but they will probably also be sealed because of placement issues and the possibility of overloading the room.

There is no way that I could have large multi way, ported dynamic speakers with 15" woofers in my smaller sized room.

 

[edorr]

This in part is where proper speaker selection comes into play. In a small room, smaller dynamic speakers or panels might work better than larger dynamic/cone speakers.

My room is 15' X 16' X 7.5' and I use sealed two-way stand-mounted speakers. I might someday try larger floor standing three-ways but they will probably also be sealed because of placement issues and the possibility of overloading the room.

There is no way that I could have large multi way, ported dynamic speakers with 15" woofers in my smaller sized room.

I have very large speakers with 4 x 15" woofers in a small room (13' x 20'), and the issue is not overpowering bass. I have a suspicion what is holding me back realizing the speakers' full potential are placement limitations due to physical size of the speakers. I cannot move these giants too far away from the sidewalls and rear-walls, so I can realistically only move them 6" to each side and may be a foot in and out.

 

[dallasjustice]

That's partly true. But the OP's speakers should play flat to 16hz. He's going to need real bass traps in that room if he wants to hear everything he paid for.

This in part is where proper speaker selection comes into play. In a small room, smaller dynamic speakers or panels might work better than larger dynamic/cone speakers.

My room is 15' X 16' X 7.5' and I use sealed two-way stand-mounted speakers. I might someday try larger floor standing three-ways but they will probably also be sealed because of placement issues and the possibility of overloading the room.

There is no way that I could have large multi way, ported dynamic speakers with 15" woofers in my smaller sized room.

 

[MadFloyd]

I
On a different note, can you share some first impressions of the results of the voicing session with Jim?

I should start a separate thread for this, but the results have astounded me. I thought I had my speakers everywhere in my room and couldn't quite shake an annoying peak around 60hz, but it's now gone. The only node I'm left with is around 31hz which is a lot less intrusive. I thought for sure I needed tube traps (and probably lots of them) to get the intelligibility I wanted out of the bass, but I'm very happy with it now (tube traps would still improve things according to Jim). Bass in my room is the same as listening to good headphones - just amazing.

Bass is not the only area improved of course - it's all better. Speakers are very far out into the room (another thing that I didn't think was possible with Wilsons) and soundstage is fantastic.

Jim is meticulous. My room is extremely challenging as no two walls are parallel.

Highly recommended.

 

[edorr]

I should start a separate thread for this, but the results have astounded me. I thought I had my speakers everywhere in my room and couldn't quite shake an annoying peak around 60hz, but it's now gone. The only node I'm left with is around 31hz which is a lot less intrusive. I thought for sure I needed tube traps (and probably lots of them) to get the intelligibility I wanted out of the bass, but I'm very happy with it now (tube traps would still improve things according to Jim). Bass in my room is the same as listening to good headphones - just amazing.

Bass is not the only area improved of course - it's all better. Speakers are very far out into the room (another thing that I didn't think was possible with Wilsons) and soundstage is fantastic.

Jim is meticulous. My room is extremely challenging as no two walls are parallel.

Highly recommended.

That sounds very encouraging. Jim is scheduled to measure and make some initial observations of my room/system this week, to be followed by a full blown voicing session later.

 

[Jim Smith]

That sounds very encouraging. Jim is scheduled to measure and make some initial observations of my room/system this week, to be followed by a full blown voicing session later.

I should mention that - out of the over 700 systems I've voiced - for the evaluation session, I rarely ever perform any measurements (maybe 10% of the time), preferring to determine the areas of difficulty by ear on actual recordings that I bring with me.

I can perform measurements if something is especially challenging, but rarely need to do so. As an example (as MadFloyd can attest), no measurements were taken until the beginning of the voicing session.

I would not expect to perform measurements of edorr's set-up during the initial evaluation, although you never know.

 

[Steve Williams]

Interesting Jim

Can you share with the members what your background is and how you developed these skills

 

[Bill Hart]

Interesting Jim

Can you share with the members what your background is and how you developed these skills

Love to see a separate thread on this. 'Mad skills' ala Breaking Bad.
Including additional commentary from 'Mad' Floyd, Peter A. and others who have used Jim.

 

[PeterA]

Love to see a separate thread on this. 'Mad skills' ala Breaking Bad.
Including additional commentary from 'Mad' Floyd, Peter A. and others who have used Jim.

We could move this over to my review thread of Jim Smith's RoomPlay. Or we could start a new thread. What do you think Madfloyd?

 

[Steve Williams]

Love to see a separate thread on this. 'Mad skills' ala Breaking Bad.
Including additional commentary from 'Mad' Floyd, Peter A. and others who have used Jim.

I'm interested inasmuch as each speaker manufacturer has a set up recommendation and am wondering if Jim follows these or uses some of his own. This plus the fact that each speaker type also has a certain set of limitations OR is he just looking for the best position in the room and disregards those set up recommendations

 

[edorr]

I should mention that - out of the over 700 systems I've voiced - for the evaluation session, I rarely ever perform any measurements (maybe 10% of the time), preferring to determine the areas of difficulty by ear on actual recordings that I bring with me.

I can perform measurements if something is especially challenging, but rarely need to do so. As an example (as MadFloyd can attest), no measurements were taken until the beginning of the voicing session.

I would not expect to perform measurements of edorr's set-up during the initial evaluation, although you never know.

It would be fun if you compiled a score card and assigned a pre and post voicing session score (both by specific attribute, e.g. "dynamics", "timbre" and a total score) to each system you did. 100 would be the highest achievable. Since most of your (prospective) clients are competitive type A males who take great pride in their system, I suspect most would be intersted to knowing how their system stacks up, even on a subjective basis. Would be a great marketing tool as well....

 

[Jim Smith]

I'm interested inasmuch as each speaker manufacturer has a set up recommendation and am wondering if Jim follows these or uses some of his own. This plus the fact that each speaker type also has a certain set of limitations OR is he just looking for the best position in the room and disregards those set up recommendations

I can briefly reply here or in another thread.

Of course, one obvious consideration is that, since many high-end audio companies have their own suggestions/guides to set-up, and they all disagree, who is correct?

 

[Jim Smith]

It would be fun if you compiled a score card and assigned a pre and post voicing session score (both by specific attribute, e.g. "dynamics", "timbre" and a total score) to each system you did. 100 would be the highest achievable. Since most of your (prospective) clients are competitive type A males who take great pride in their system, I suspect most would be intersted to knowing how their system stacks up, even on a subjective basis. Would be a great marketing tool as well....

Unfortunately, getting more clients is not the problem.

 

[PeterA]

I'm interested inasmuch as each speaker manufacturer has a set up recommendation and am wondering if Jim follows these or uses some of his own. This plus the fact that each speaker type also has a certain set of limitations OR is he just looking for the best position in the room and disregards those set up recommendations

I don't want to speak for Jim. My speakers were bought used without the aid of a dealer to set them up. I've read many set up manuals and heard systems set up by dealers at shows, in their stores and at clients' houses. Frankly, these set ups were not that great. I've spoken to quite a few friends who have tried to set them up following all kinds of advice and were not that happy with the results. Some were even a bit frustrated as I was. I assumed the system could sound better, but I could not get it there myself. Most results that I have heard are less than optimal. I think proper set up techniques take many years to learn and much experience to do properly.

Most, if not all, of the rooms at the three audio shows that I have attended were set up by dealers and/or manufacturers. Most have had problems in my opinion. The gear is often quite good, but the poor sound is often blamed on "show conditions." I have come to learn that at least some of the poor sound is less than optimal set up by the sponsors of the room. Perhaps this is just my opinion.

I bought and read Jim's book "Get Better Sound". The advice in the book got me much closer to good sound than anything else I had heard or read. Hiring Jim took it to another level entirely. I go into the details in my review which is posted in the Member's Review section of this forum.

 

[edorr]

Unfortunately, getting more clients is not the problem.

I feel your pain. Still, it should be fun to know "Jim's score". I'm sure most clients ask you how their system compares to reference systems.