Trinity DAC

caesar

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this afternoon I got the Kodak 50 disc loader set up (I watched my son set it up remotely) on the old server; did a test run of 5 discs, and now it's off and running on the first batch of 50 discs. I figure 50 a day for however long it takes. the old server moves the file onto the NAS and it is immediately available on JRiver.

cool.

Mike,

Thanks for sharing your journey with us. It is truly enlightening.

Got a few questions for you regarding setup:

- Have you considered getting a top notch Esoteric transport to play your existing disks, while using your new computer solely for downloads? Do you think playing ripped files using the computer your son is helping you build will kill the best Esoteric transport out there? Is this an intermediate solution, until you choose to get a top notch transport, or do you think what you have is better (or a wash)?

- Do you think your new computer will outperform any of the professional servers out there, such as Aurender, Baetis, or any of these
http://www.3beez.com/comparison/competition_chart.html?
http://www.3beez.com/comparison/gloves_off.html

- Finally, what is the technical rationale behind moving your NAS closer to your components? Why should it matter how far away it is? You mentioned the disadvantage of fan noise? What are you gaining in the trade-off ?

Thanks and Enjoy!!!
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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Mike,

Thanks for sharing your journey with us. It is truly enlightening.

thanks. i'm having fun.

Got a few questions for you regarding setup:

- Have you considered getting a top notch Esoteric transport to play your existing disks, while using your new computer solely for downloads? Do you think playing ripped files using the computer your son is helping you build will kill the best Esoteric transport out there? Is this an intermediate solution, until you choose to get a top notch transport, or do you think what you have is better (or a wash)?

ripped SACD files and native dsd files have sounded equal or slightly better in my system in the past to the esoteric drive inside my Playback Designs. when I added the Herzan TS-150 under the Playback Designs it did help the Redbook CD discs quite a bit more than the SACD discs but still the files were about equal to the SACD discs. native dsd, such as all the Channel Classics files, are slightly better than the SACD's to my ears. analog/PCM sourced dsd files/SACD's are more a crap shoot to predict. I know there are a couple higher level Esoteric disc drives than the one in the Playback Designs. when I moved my server downstairs that did boost dsd file performance very slightly....which is part of the picture.

so I don't have any particular feeling that SACD disk player performance brings particular additional performance based on my experience. I have no doubt that the very top level Esoteric disc drive might be better than dsd files. but I would bet that possibly that has to do with less than ideal server connectivity, or clocking connectivity, to the dac in that system. so it's really hard to know what is causing what.

I have a co-worker who can rip SACD's; which would be the only reason I would have to have a disk player once I complete my CD ripping. almost 100% of my 1200-1300 SACD's have already been ripped anyway. i'll always have my CD/DVD single drawer ripper on the old server.

and these days much of my dsd listening is to 2xdsd vinyl rips which clearly trump SACD and dsd. and then we have quad dsd to consider going forward.

hard to predict how whatever dsd dac might better the Playbacks Design dac for dsd in my system will affect the disc drive question; but one would expect it to push it more in favor of files. I think when you read about the design of the Trinity dac, and how additional cables and distance compromises jitter and the integrity of the digital signal you start to realize the limitations of the disc drive.

as far as a disc drive and PCM.....well....game, set, match to the CAPSv4 and Trinity dac. I cannot fathom any other result.

I also think that the dac designer who 'get's it most right' will throw the advantage more to the server since he has solved the connectivity issues best.

- Do you think your new computer will outperform any of the professional servers out there, such as Aurender, Baetis, or any of these
http://www.3beez.com/comparison/competition_chart.html?
http://www.3beez.com/comparison/gloves_off.html

don't know really. common sense might tell you that an open content generic machine can tweak more individual parts optimally than a closed system. OTOH maybe synergy overcomes that aspect. my 'guess' is that the since being able to assemble a PC is now so common place, that these 'professional servers' are only 'great' for a particular moment in time, and that the generic open system gets improved monthly since there are is so much attention on this subject from so many directions. I happen to have a Son who is a network engineer, so if another 'better' part comes along, I can have him throw it in there.

for instance, the Teradak ATX linear power supply and Uptone JS-2 linear power supply i'm using, are enhancments to earlier specs of the Lampi DSD Komputer, which is an enhancement to the CAPSv4 Pipeline. and that is just in 8 months since the CAPS v4 Pipeline was first launched.

what other tweaks will come along in the next 8 months?

but for the person who needs plug and play, the professional server might be preferable (for 3x to 4x the $$$'s). might there be some proprietary 'magic' from say the Trinity dac and it's Trinity PC & Drive server? could be. maybe Audiocrack can, at some point, move his CAPSv4 into the Trinity System and do the comparison. or might the Aurender W20 somehow sound better than any generic server? don't know. maybe someone can answer that?

i'm likely not the right person to give you much help on this issue. as I've simply followed other's (mostly Elberoth's) directions. which has turned out rather well for me I think.;)

- Finally, what is the technical rationale behind moving your NAS closer to your components? Why should it matter how far away it is? You mentioned the disadvantage of fan noise? What are you gaining in the trade-off ?

Thanks and Enjoy!!!

moving the server downstairs eliminated (1) a 40' CAT5e network cable, and (2) the powered USB over Ethernet extender which allowed that 40' cable with the USB on the end of it. the new CAPSv4 server still has to connect itself to the network over a cable and then to the NAS over the network, but the server is just a 2m USB cable from the dacs. I know that how the Trinity controls jitter with it's 'uber' clocks requires a short USB, can't say exactly how it affects the Playbacks or another dac.

of course now I have the new CAPS v4 Pipeline server which is totally quiet as well as much better sounding as I described. but with the old server moved downstairs I did get much better performance from the Trinity and a little better from the Playbacks Design as well as the single disc drawer for ripping was now in my listening room which allowed for me to easily rip CD's for that week it was there. now it's back upstairs with the Kodak big boy ripper.
 
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Kingsrule

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Mike

What's that gold tube hanging off the back of your preamp? It looks like you edited out the id in your picture. Some top secret dongle??!!!
 

microstrip

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(...) moving the server downstairs eliminated (1) a 40' CAT5e network cable, and (2) the powered USB over Ethernet extender which allowed that 40' cable with the USB on the end of it. the new CAPSv4 server still has to connect itself to the network over a cable and then to the NAS over the network, but the server is just a 2m USB cable from the dacs. I know that how the Trinity controls jitter with it's 'uber' clocks requires a short USB, can't say exactly how it affects the Playbacks or another dac.

of course now I have the new CAPS v4 Pipeline server which is totally quiet as well as much better sounding as I described. but with the old server moved downstairs I did get much better performance from the Trinity and a little better from the Playbacks Design as well as the single disc drawer for ripping was now in my listening room which allowed for me to easily rip CD's for that week it was there. now it's back upstairs with the Kodak big boy ripper.

Mike,

Does your system include the Trinity DAC optical interface? http://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/05/trinity-supreme-new-dac-optical.html
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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Mike,

Does your system include the Trinity DAC optical interface? http://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/05/trinity-supreme-new-dac-optical.html

no, mine does not have that. it can be added but the rear ports have to be changed somewhat, and it's expensive.

according to Dietmar (based on my reading) there are technical advantages to the Optical link but when the guys on the Audioexotics board listened to it a few months back compared to conventional USB they could not hear any reliable difference. maybe Dietmar has done more work now and so it's making a bigger difference.

in the future at some point I might think about it, but i'm living the PCM dream now so no worries.
 

LL21

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no, mine does not have that. it can be added but the rear ports have to be changed somewhat, and it's expensive.

according to Dietmar (based on my reading) there are technical advantages to the Optical link but when the guys on the Audioexotics board listened to it a few months back compared to conventional USB they could not hear any reliable difference. maybe Dietmar has done more work now and so it's making a bigger difference.

in the future at some point I might think about it, but i'm living the PCM dream now so no worries.

Great stuff and nice to hear for a redbook guy like me. Enjoy! 3000 more albums to listen to and enjoy along with the rest of your formidable collection of other music formats.
 

Audiocrack

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no, mine does not have that. it can be added but the rear ports have to be changed somewhat, and it's expensive.

according to Dietmar (based on my reading) there are technical advantages to the Optical link but when the guys on the Audioexotics board listened to it a few months back compared to conventional USB they could not hear any reliable difference. maybe Dietmar has done more work now and so it's making a bigger difference.

in the future at some point I might think about it, but i'm living the PCM dream now so no worries.

To me it is very strange that the AE guys claim to hear profound differences after inserting different usb cables but do not hear (consistently) any difference when using the optical interface. I am planning to insert the optical interface once I am able to make an appointment with Dietmar.
 

caesar

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May 30, 2010
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Mike,

yes, artificial digital harshness tends to be amplified by problems with room acoustics (and perhaps by problems with downstream electronics too). I am afraid that this issue has muddled the analog vs. digital debate over the decades as well -- system/room units that had problems may not have been challenged as much by vinyl playback, this being an additional factor tipping the scale in favor of vinyl in these settings. Of course, once the room is addressed, vinyl playback greatly benefits as well, but that is a separate issue.
....

Your electrical is also key. If you run some seriously powerful SS amps, they throw a lot of hash back in the line. You need dedicated lines, great electrical cords, and power conditioners to help clean up those highs so digital can be the best it can be.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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Hi Mike

any new updates in your Trinity DAC and new server?

sorry for my delay in updates, not posted much this week. been ripping CD's, and was in New Orleans for a business trip Tuesday-Friday night and then a family event all day yesterday.

I'm continuing to really enjoy the Trinity. since last Sunday afternoon, even being gone for the trip and family stuff, I've ripped over 450 CD's thru this morning. so getting about 100 a day done (when in town). which has allowed me to sample my long forgotten classical CD collection thru the Trinity and it's been remarkable just how wonderful sounding they are. I recall now how much I enjoyed collecting them over 10 years from 1994-2004 or so. most were purchased from reviews as I knew little about classical music. so they were pretty good sounding and now they sound better, much, much better, than they ever did before between the Trinity and my system development.

it is about the music.....not that I don't like new pretty toys too.:D

I'm still waiting for the Uptone JS-2 LPS to arrive and need to get my son to install the software, 'audiophile optimizer', that I bought. so the server will get better.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
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Mike, Can you order the Trinity with remoter vol control so you can direct to your amps? Cyrus

Cyrus,

no; the Trinity dac has no option of an on board volume control that I have seen any mention about.

obviously there are a number of other dacs which do offer that integrated option.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Your electrical is also key. If you run some seriously powerful SS amps, they throw a lot of hash back in the line. You need dedicated lines, great electrical cords, and power conditioners to help clean up those highs so digital can be the best it can be.

agree completely; both for the dac(s), transports, and the server. and they are different.

not all ss amplifier's power supplies are created equal or are noisy in terms of feedback into the power grid; although some certainly are. my 458's sure seem to be extremely quiet. if amps do not have switching power supplies and are properly designed and scaled to the speaker demand they can be quiet. subs with switching power supplies can certainly have the potential for lots of noise.

with my Equi=tech 10WQ wall panel system I have 3 of my 10 panel circuits with digital filters to reduce/eliminate back fill of noise from my digital components. 2 are for the class D amps in my speaker bass towers. one is for my digital sources; Playback Designs MPS-5 and Trinity dac. then I have my server and related power supplies (and my Herzan active isolation shelves) all plugged into the 'dirty' power grid which includes my HVAC and lights. but I add a power cord with an in-line filter for all those pieces to keep noise from the outside power grid into the server. so there is no way for digtial noise from any of the server circuits to pollute the signal path power grid. evidently the Trinity is said to not be affected by the power grid. I've heard that before from dac designers in my room who compared their units to the Playback Design. but then when they plugged their units into the Equi=tech gird the sound was much better.

you cannot assume with power grid issues.....so many variables.

at some point I may experiment and plug my dacs into the outside power grid and see how that compares to being plugged into the Equi=tech circuit. you never know the result unless you try it. I have read that the Trinity can sound better not on the same power grid as other signal path components.....but it's so hard to generalize from one system's power grid to another.
 
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adyc

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For the server, I would suggest you consider Sonore Signature Series Rendu. It is a completely ground up design to isolation noise from network and provide the cleanest SPDIF signal.

No matter how optimised CAP4, it is still a general purpose computer with general purpose OS. I do not think it can be compared to this.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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For the server, I would suggest you consider Sonore Signature Series Rendu. It is a completely ground up design to isolation noise from network and provide the cleanest SPDIF signal.

No matter how optimised CAP4, it is still a general purpose computer with general purpose OS. I do not think it can be compared to this.

full disclosure; I'm mostly personally clueless on server stuff. so I can only say what I'm hearing in my system plus relate what advice I've been given (mostly from member Elberoth) along with help from my network engineer son about stuff.

my server only starts as a CAPS v4 Pipeline; there are a few hot rodded parts beyond that basic spec.

Sonore Signature might be god's gift to dacs. but as far as my particular server being a 'general purpose computer with a general purpose OS' maybe read this article about it's operating system.......which uses the Win Server 2012 R2 Standard Edition running in 'core only' mode + the Audiophile Optimizer which does change the server from what you term a 'general purpose computer' to an audio appliance only based on how it's been explained to me.

not sure this is the right spot to debate the ideal server choice. but thanks for the suggestion.

as far as isolation from noise; my server uses the Teradak ATX LPS for the MoBo, plus the Jcat battery power, plus the Uptone JS-2 LPS.....so it's not the standard CAPS v4. no switching power supplies are used for the server or the Regen unit.

as far as SPDIF verses USB2, I'm not knowledgeable enough to debate it. but it's a question whether the Sonore surpasses the Trinity clock performance with USB in SPDIF mode. I would be quite surprised if the Sonore's clocks are in the same league as the Trinity's. maybe someone has heard Sonore SPDIF-Trinity combo and can comment. if it's better that would be a good thing; that would mean what I'm now hearing will get better yet.
 
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