that I have no business posting in. This is one of them. People on beer budgets should avoid champagne. But boy do I like that champagne...interestingly the color of DartZeel gear.
There are some forums...
- Thread starter es347
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I have not heard or seen of this stuff before, but I just did a Google image search and I have to say that you have good taste.
And you would be wrong ... There is no reason, why beer budget gears cannot match or surpass Champagne budget ones. In these days of the Internet and Open Source, it has become easier if anything. How much better is Firefox to MS Explorer ? Circuitry for all kind of gear is all over the place on the Internet .. CNC are available for rent and I am discovering with glee and happy surprise that DIY subwoofers are easy to make and easy to design and in most instances surpass with no margin for error the most violently expensive commercial ones ... Take for example the Quasar Array that HealthNut (Where are you Man ??) has built and countless of others ... If anyone wants to be convinced how good some beer budget are, in subwoofer, one listen at a properly set-up Mark Seaton's Submersive subwoofer can do at $1995 (is that Beer budget?) , will constern you. Yes, it is not pretty but hey who's looking?
Back on topic, I have heard the Dar Tzeel, the smaller amplifer and Preamp and they do sound good. I am repeating it to anyone who cares to listen: The Better SS these days do what we thought only tubes could and IMO better, the Dar Tzeel , I heard belong to the category of superb sounding gear not superb sounding SS gear, no! Super Sounding Gear ...
Frantz
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Yes the Dartzeel is an excellent sounding product. But let's compare apples and oranges. What could one do with tubes if the amp cost $150K. Aren't too many tube amps up there. The ARC 601T is one of the most expensive out there that I know of that is in the same power range. I'd sure like to put my new tube amp up against the Dartzeel too!
Myles
It could be that I have not expressed my point very well: Price is not an indication of performance. I think that is something that I should stress over and over. Pricing has taken off in High End Audio because too many audiophiles have come to equate Price with Performance, something that is false and demonstrably so.
I am repeating below es347 post
So Back in topic .. Mike Lavigne has the Dar Tzeel and he should chime in, I have only heard it ... And to my ears they were extremely good ...
Frantz
It could be that I have not expressed my point very well: Price is not an indication of performance. I think that is something that I should stress over and over. Pricing has taken off in High End Audio because too many audiophiles have come to equate Price with Performance, something that is false and demonstrably so.
I am repeating below es347 post
So Back in topic .. Mike Lavigne has the Dar Tzeel and he should chime in, I have only heard it ... And to my ears they were extremely good ...
Frantz
Hi Frantz,
No, like many things in life, there is a law of diminishing returns. I look at it as a sigmoidal curve.
What I was trying to say is to extract that last 5 or 10% of performance out of a component involves in many circumstances, the use of ultra-high quality parts such as Teflon caps that run $300+ or the new Cu foil V-caps that are even more. Use 30 caps at $300 apiece and the cost adds up very quickly.
Then what also factors in the price is the limited quantity that also adds to the cost. If you make a million or more of something, it sure brings the price down as Sony has shown.
I can count on one hand the pieces that really move me emotionally when I listen to them The 'Zeel stuff is probably in the top 3.
My only beef with this stuff is that it is hard to integrate other pieces with them to extract the best they have to offer. Give me XLR's or RCA's... this stuff has 50 ohm BNC's.... wtf?? I hate proprietary sh*t.
My only beef with this stuff is that it is hard to integrate other pieces with them to extract the best they have to offer. Give me XLR's or RCA's... this stuff has 50 ohm BNC's.... wtf?? I hate proprietary sh*t.
I liken hi fi to weight loss and body building. The first 100 lbs is always the easiest to shed, more like getting from mid-fi to hi-fi. But then, when you are in the final days of preparation for a body building competition, every drop of water, every ounce of salt matters. Point of deminishing return? It depends, how badly you want to be Mr. Olympia.
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I find the first 10 as difficult as the last Ding Hahahahaha
I'm still on Herve's rolodex as he sends me messages about once a year. If the economy picks up, we may carry them.
I'm still on Herve's rolodex as he sends me messages about once a year. If the economy picks up, we may carry them.
If I ever change my Viva Solista, the Dartzeel integrated is in my shortlist witH Boulder, Einstein, Burmesternand ASR.
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Own both the darTZeel stereo amp and preamp. These are connected via the Zeel 50 ohm BNC cable. It replaced the Valhalla IC which now resides with my Wyetech Topaz.
The darTZeel mono's were very engaging when I listened to them at Mike L place last year. But they ain't cheap.
Having been fortunate enough to have owned a few SS and tube amps simultaneously for the better part of 6 years. I wound up settleing with the darTZeel.
The amps that I had for six years were the following, ML 33s and 33h, ASR Emitter II Exclusive Blue Version and a Wyetech SET Topaz only for one year.
Having them in my music room at the same time allowed me to hear which amps were the most musical for my listening taste/enjoyment.
Settled on the darTZeel, this amp floats my boat better than the other SS amps that I have heard or owned.
Sold my other SS amps, kept the Topaz.
The darTZeel mono's were very engaging when I listened to them at Mike L place last year. But they ain't cheap.
Having been fortunate enough to have owned a few SS and tube amps simultaneously for the better part of 6 years. I wound up settleing with the darTZeel.
The amps that I had for six years were the following, ML 33s and 33h, ASR Emitter II Exclusive Blue Version and a Wyetech SET Topaz only for one year.
Having them in my music room at the same time allowed me to hear which amps were the most musical for my listening taste/enjoyment.
Settled on the darTZeel, this amp floats my boat better than the other SS amps that I have heard or owned.
Sold my other SS amps, kept the Topaz.
I recently purchased the Dartzeel CTH-8550 and love this integrated amp. I sold my Tenor 15 wi mono's and my tube phono preamp and have never looked back. The Dartzeel does everything right. I have lost a lot of sleep since I got the Dartzeel because I can't stop listening to it. I can happily live with 85% of the performance of the Dartzeel separates( stereo amp and preamp) for half the price
I take it you don't find the CTH-8550 a little under-powered sounding, as some of the reviews suggest?
The CTH-8550 is not under-powered sounding. It has no problem playing any style of music. I like both rock and classical music. It does not suffer from any lack of power. The CTH-8550 does not lack any bass impact. Music just flows through it and sounds amazing. Since I have had the Dartzeel in my system, I spend less time analyzing what is going on and more time just enjoying the music.
I have owned Dartzeel preamplifier and amplifier for more than two years, and have really enjoyed the time I owned them. One of the thinks I did not like was the expected excessive price of the monoblocks , as I needed more power for both speakers I was using - the Krell LAT 1000 and the Soundlab A1's - I parted with them.
But those who praise the excellent sound of Dartzeel solid state amplifiers should remember that the measurements of Dartzeel units are not better than most current top tube equipment, and can be considered very poor when compared against typical measured performance of solid state equipment from other manufacturers, such as Krell, Mark Levinson or Bryston, just to refer a few that we have been debated recently in this forum. If we look at these measurements more carefully, we can be tempted to say that Dartzeel tries to emulate the performance of tubes with solid state ...
, as I needed more power for both speakers I was using - the Krell LAT 1000 and the Soundlab A1's - I parted with them. But those who praise the excellent sound of Dartzeel solid state amplifiers should remember that the measurements of Dartzeel units are not better than most current top tube equipment, and can be considered very poor when compared against typical measured performance of solid state equipment from other manufacturers, such as Krell, Mark Levinson or Bryston, just to refer a few that we have been debated recently in this forum. If we look at these measurements more carefully, we can be tempted to say that Dartzeel tries to emulate the performance of tubes with solid state ...
But those who praise the excellent sound of Dartzeel solid state amplifiers should remember that the measurements of Dartzeel units are not better than most current top tube equipment, and can be considered very poor when compared against typical measured performance of solid state equipment from other manufacturers, such as Krell, Mark Levinson or Bryston, just to refer a few that we have been debated recently in this forum. If we look at these measurements more carefully, we can be tempted to say that Dartzeel tries to emulate the performance of tubes with solid state ...
I have heard of the below-average measurements of the Dartzeel gear, but no one who has owned them complains, some of those coming from well known/measured amps...
So do people here think that DartZeel is a prime example of performance over specs? BTW, I've heard similar comments about the Playback Designs MPS-5; it doesn't measure as well as other units, but everyone who is familiar with it, loves the way it sounds and highly recommends it!
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