The KEF LS50 and tubes WOW WOW WOW!

[DaveyF]

They failed the cricket test in the Chris Jones Roadhouses and Automobilesbiles song.

I sat in the sweet spot and also got up and walked up close to and around them. I was gobsmacked, but they did not project the faint cricket noise throught the song. Check for yourself when you have the chance.

I know about the coax driver and all, but still...

wisnon, I'm a little surprised as to what you stated about the Blades. Are you certain that something upstream was not the cause of your impression? Faint cricket noises or other minutae in the reproduction can easily be lost IF
there is something upstream that cannot resolve that. Cables, electronics, etc-- are always a factor.

 

[mep]

The LS50 and tubes are a match made in heaven.

First of all, I'm glad you tried them with tubes and you think they sound really good. I assume based on your remarks that you like the sound of them better with tubes than the two SS amps you tried.

My initial thoughts on the LS50 are that they absolutely should be used in the appropriate room size, and listener will get the
very best out of them with near field listening...6 to 8 feet max. I also believe the speakers should be set up so that the coaxial driver
is either at, or just below ear level.

How did you come to determine that 6-8 max away from the speakers is the ideal listening position? Is that based on the dimensions of the room you have them sitting in? What are those dimensions? I for one don't feel that the LS50s have to be listened to in the near field unless you are crammed into a room that requires it. The owner's manual calls for the speakers to be separated by 6'-10', and I think if you had them 10' apart from each other and sat 8' away it would sound funny. I was concerned they wouldn't load into a fairly good sized room like mine, but they do just fine.

 

[mep]

Hey Davey:On the topic of a sub: With near field listening and the appropriate room size, I don't believe subs will be beneficial.

And I don't agree for the reasons stated above. Maybe if you are in a very small room with the LS50s close to the rear wall and you are sitting on top of them listening to what bass they have being reinforced by the back corners of your room subs might not be beneficial.

First, trying to integrate a sub with the excellent coax driver on the LS50 really defeats the purpose. The driver was designed,
for ultimate coherence and to perform as a single voice.

Using a sub doesn't "defeat the purpose." The LS50 is still as coherent as it ever was when used with a sub that is set up correctly for the room. All you are doing is filling in the bass information that is missing from the LS50. The LS50 is still singing with a pure voice from 70Hz or so up past where any of us can hear.

That is not to say it can't be done, but unless KEF makes a matching sub, I would not risk the grey hairs.

I'm running the LS50s with 4 subs currently and I think the key is don't cross them over too high and don't set the volume level on the subs very high. Of course I already have lots of gray hair, that was a moot point for me.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

FWIW, I wouldn't consider 8 feet away to be near field. Even six is pushing it. 3 - 4? That's near field. But I'd be willing to bet, Andre, that from that distance - 6 to 8 feet - a single sub, crossed over at the right spot, could be very beneficial. Not some gargantuan, HT-ready thing...small to mid-sized REL, perhaps. No need to go super deep, but a compelling need to go up to at least 50hz of fast and snug and making a standup bass sound like a standup bass.

Tim

 

[Peter Breuninger]

Near field in my opinion is less than 12 feet and in an equilateral triangle set up.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Near field in my opinion is less than 12 feet and in an equilateral triangle set up.

12 feet? To me nearfield is like 5ft max.

 

[MadFloyd]

12 feet? To me nearfield is like 5ft max.

I agree.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...d-Listening-Acquired-Taste-or-Proper-Paradigm

 

[Andre Marc]

First of all, I'm glad you tried them with tubes and you think they sound really good. I assume based on your remarks that you like the sound of them better with tubes than the two SS amps you tried.



How did you come to determine that 6-8 max away from the speakers is the ideal listening position? Is that based on the dimensions of the room you have them sitting in? What are those dimensions? I for one don't feel that the LS50s have to be listened to in the near field unless you are crammed into a room that requires it. The owner's manual calls for the speakers to be separated by 6'-10', and I think if you had them 10' apart from each other and sat 8' away it would sound funny. I was concerned they wouldn't load into a fairly good sized room like mine, but they do just fine.

Yes, I like them better with tubes. But YMMV. I am partial to tubes, but I am not an absolutist. To my ear they sound best with the ST 100, the third
amplifier I have used them with.

I determined the way they sound their best based on multiple configuration options. I have heard them at a friends house, and at multiple shows. KEF uses a small room to display. I personally feel they sound their best and most convincing at around 6 to 8 feet. Again, YMMV.

I think spreading them 10 feet apart would be a mistake. 6 to eight feet max to my ears.

 

[Andre Marc]

And I don't agree for the reasons stated above. Maybe if you are in a very small room with the LS50s close to the rear wall and you are sitting on top of them listening to what bass they have being reinforced by the back corners of your room subs might not be beneficial.



Using a sub doesn't "defeat the purpose." The LS50 is still as coherent as it ever was when used with a sub that is set up correctly for the room. All you are doing is filling in the bass information that is missing from the LS50. The LS50 is still singing with a pure voice from 70Hz or so up past where any of us can hear.



I'm running the LS50s with 4 subs currently and I think the key is don't cross them over too high and don't set the volume level on the subs very high. Of course I already have lots of gray hair, that was a moot point for me.

I have never heard subs disappear, ever. That is just me. It gets close when the sub driver material is identical to the satellites.

My personal preference lead me down the path of simpler is better. and that is a directly I have been moving in continuously lately.

There are those who can't live without subs and are willing to accept the trade offs and the integration issues. I have no problem with that.

 

[Andre Marc]

FWIW, I wouldn't consider 8 feet away to be near field. Even six is pushing it. 3 - 4? That's near field. But I'd be willing to bet, Andre, that from that distance - 6 to 8 feet - a single sub, crossed over at the right spot, could be very beneficial. Not some gargantuan, HT-ready thing...small to mid-sized REL, perhaps. No need to go super deep, but a compelling need to go up to at least 50hz of fast and snug and making a standup bass sound like a standup bass.

Tim

I still think 6 feet is near field. You may be right about a sub. But I they are not for me. Maybe KEF makes a sub withe the UniQ material?

 

[Andre Marc]

12 feet? To me nearfield is like 5ft max.

12 feet is not near field for sure. That is about the furthest I would ever sit.

BTW, Mikey Fremer sits 8 feet away from his XLFs!

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

12 feet is not near field for sure. That is about the furthest I would ever sit.

BTW, Mikey Fremer sits 8 feet away from his XLFs!

Does he call that nearfield?

 

[Andre Marc]

Does he call that nearfield?

Mikey? I dunno, but he calls it "close".

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Mikey? I dunno, but he calls it "close".

LOL.....Love that! Close is good!

 

[Andre Marc]

LOL.....Love that! Close is good!

I aim to please! I also know several folks who sat in his listening chair, including the Wilson rep who helped set up the XLFs.

He was surprised by how small the listening space is and how close the listening position was.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I aim to please! I also know several folks who sat in his listening chair, including the Wilson rep who helped set up the XLFs.

He was surprised by how small the listening space is and how close the listening position was.

I happen to quite enjoy nearfiled and did so for several years in my small 11x10 room. I was roughly 5-6 ft (equilaterally) apart. And while the stage was obviously quite narrow, the intensity of hearing everything before you is quite stunning.

 

[mep]

Yes, I like them better with tubes. But YMMV. I am partial to tubes, but I am not an absolutist. To my ear they sound best with the ST 100, the third
amplifier I have used them with.

I determined the way they sound their best based on multiple configuration options. I have heard them at a friends house, and at multiple shows. KEF uses a small room to display. I personally feel they sound their best and most convincing at around 6 to 8 feet. Again, YMMV.

I think spreading them 10 feet apart would be a mistake. 6 to eight feet max to my ears.

I don't have mine 10' apart, but I previously listed all of the dimensions of where they are in my room with regards to how far from the back wall, side walls, and how far from each other. I do believe mine are over 9' apart but less than 10'. As long is you don't have the "hole in the middle" issue which I don't, all is good. With regards to integrating subs, I think you are making it sound more difficult than it really is. Subs don't have to come from the same manufacturer as the main speakers in order to 'work' correctly. The subs don't have to be made from the same cone material as the main speakers in order to blend or for whatever reason you think they need to be made from the same material. At the end of the day, all that matter is that you are happy with the sound of the LS50s in your room. After hearing the incredible purity these speakers are capable of, you really can't go backwards again.

 

[Andre Marc]

I happen to quite enjoy nearfiled and did so for several years in my small 11x10 room. I was roughly 5-6 ft (equilaterally) apart. And while the stage was obviously quite narrow, the intensity of hearing everything before you is quite stunning.

Agree. And I also agree with Peter that equi-distance between speakers and listener is important.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Agree. And I also agree with Peter that equi-distance between speakers and listener is important.

Agreed, but 12 feet? Seems rather excessive to call that nearfield. The stage boundaries are going to open up......