The first Q3 review

[djanggo]

Hope we are all on same frequency here.. Just to clarify, mine is the Stan Getz "The Girl From Ipanema" (The Bossa Nova Years) set of 4 CDs album by Verve. Track I described previously was no.10 (last track) from disc four. There are repetitions of different iterations of same songs within this set. Yes, there is this other GFI song from first track of disc three which renders her vocal more to the right, at just about behind the the right speaker, her male duet is about dead center here--most likely this was the track referred to in the review. But still no "outside" thing for me

 

[Jeff Fritz]

Hope we are all on same frequency here.. Just to clarify, mine is the Stan Getz "The Girl From Ipanema" (The Bossa Nova Years) set of 4 CDs album by Verve. Track I described previously was no.10 (last track) from disc four. There are repetitions of different iterations of same songs within this set. Yes, there is this other GFI song from first track of disc three which renders her vocal more to the right, at just about behind the the right speaker, her male duet is about dead center here--most likely this was the track referred to in the review. But still no "outside" thing for me

This is fascinating. Mine is the 24/96 track from HDtracks. Could it be slightly different sounding than the CD? Different mix? Perhaps . . . To be sure of my findings, I also had Randall Smith listen to the same track with the same file over his extremely revealing Vivid Audio V1.5s. He heard the same thing, to the right of the right speaker, but without the exact same image specificity I was getting, perhaps due to his narrower room. What was most amazing to me was the precision of the image, because it was outside of the speaker. Could that Be tweeter be doing something with space that most others don't? Anyway, interesting stuff . . .

 

[Jeff Fritz]

My system was set up by the Wilson distributor here, and he did a nice job in a sub-optimal room. in any event, her voice is just about 6-10 inches to the right of the right midrange speaker cone (ie, standing next to the outer edge of my right speaker) and the guitar is about 2.5 feet left of the Right midrange speaker cone. My speakers are about 11 feet apart center to center.

Yes, that's basically the placement I heard.

 

[mep]

Jeff, I downloaded the same track based on your comments and my image does not go to the outside of the right speaker. The male singer is dead center. Stan Getz is standing to the left of the female and behind her. She is to the outer edge of my right speaker, but not outside of the speaker to the right. Interesting...

 

[Randall Smith]

I will back Jeff up on this. While the vocal was just to the right of my speaker, the Magico's, in Jeff's room, with his electronics, produced an image that was off to the right of the right speaker.

These are my thoughts on the Q3's sounds that I sent out in an email right after I heard the speakers.

"Well, heard the Q3 for the second time last night and I must say that I am impressed. I have read Jeff's review and talked to him extensively about what he has been hearing, so I knew what to listen for. I must admit that the Q3 was a far better speaker than the Tidal. I heard far more ambient information through the Q3's than I have ever heard through any other speaker. The information seemed more forward or pronounced than I am accustomed to and was also more precise within the soundstage. I felt the Q was also a more composed speaker. At loud volumes, where too much energy can smear vocal images or blur the image of sharp guitar string, I felt the Q3 reproduced these sounds much better. Midrange was more clear and textured. I found the bass to be cleaner and clearer. I feel there is something different in the Magico bass, but like Jeff said, its difference that is hard to put your finger on. Is there less distortion and resonance? Is the lack of the port's contribution to the sound what is missing? Ultimately, it seems that the speaker does not slow down the audio signal at all. Its as if the Q3 allows the music to flow through it without resistance. The response to Jeff's review will be interesting. "

 

[mep]

I just want to make it clear that I don’t doubt for one minute that in Jeff’s room with the Q3s he is hearing the image to the outside of the right speaker. I just have to be honest and say if that is the correct imaging, I’m not getting it for whatever reason.

Funny thing about sealed box/acoustic suspension speakers. Irving “Bud” Fried absolutely hated acoustic suspension speakers and said they had the worst bass of any other type of speaker. His reasons were based on the high pressure that builds up inside the cabinet during the woofer’s rarefaction and the fact that pressure has nowhere to go. He also felt this internal pressure from the rear sound wave would leak back out through the woofer cone to some degree causing smearing of the next transient. It’s also interesting to note that the majority of all other high-end speakers use some type of porting/bass-reflex arrangement. True ¼ wavelength transmission line speakers are very rare due to complexity/cost/weight. Although cost and weight of speakers are non-issues with today’s loudspeakers that are seemingly sold by the pound.

The fact that the quality of bass from Magico speakers is controversial in the audiophile community tells us something. Magico lovers want everyone to believe that they are just hearing a more accurate bass than what they are accustomed to which is why they are hearing less bass perceptually. I hope to hear some Magico speakers at the RMAF and form my own opinions on the quality of the overall sound and the bass.

 

[LL21]

i am not going to opine on right or wrong...i admit i have not measured or done scientific tests...but then again, as a consumer...i dont care what the needle says....i care if i enjoy it. Sure, i pay attention to specs, measurements, but my ears are the last judge. The Magicos i have heard (not many and not critically) are exceptionally fast, which really helps in detail retrieval, a sense of effortless ability to let the music flow right through the speakers as if they were not there.

That said, i (personally) prefer them if the bass had greater impact. Period.

Am I wrong on a technical basis? maybe...but when i listen to music live, orchestral, hip hop, jazz, live bands...i feel the visceral nature of bass that i have yet to hear with the magicos in 2 different setups (again,...not nearly as much experience as with SF, Wilsons)...That said, i also dont have much experience with Rockport...but when i heard them, despite the older Rockport being less instantaneous/fast than the Magico...i would have taken the Rockport for its overall appeal as a deliverer of music.

not to create a controversy...i am mightily impressed by the upper thru the lower mids of the Magico...just not my personal preference relative to the really big Wilsons or the Rockports, on an overall basis. (And to share my own slant, i would probably go with a much slower SF over a Magico, so that's my own personal bias),

 

[djanggo]

Heard the Qs 3 & 5 at shows. I much preferred the 3 more recent showings compared to their 5's initial debut. Technically astute speakers I must say. though impressed as I was with their sound, the music pour forth somehow just did not engaged me as when listening to Rockport, Tidal or Avalon. Sounded a little too controlled and uptight to me (especially the bass). Maybe it was show conditions, or maybe the speakers were not broken-in properly, not sure. Jeff's nice write up sure perks my interest to give them a closer audition.

 

[Gregadd]

"Tonally, the Q3s sounded dead neutral, as I would expect from seeing their pancake-flat frequency-response graphs -- there’s little of interest to report in that respect. But just because the signal was flat doesn’t mean the music sounded flat..."

A perfect example of the contortions subjective reviewers go through to describe the sounds they hear.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Re-centering toward the Q3. I am pleased by what Magico is doing. It seems that they are bucking the trend. What was the last time that the top of the line cost less than the previous model? From which manufacturer have you seen this? I will give the example of Rockport which I regard very, very highly. Although the Arakis was never in my line of sight I am somewhat peeved at the $60,000 for the active version. The original Arakis was an already brutal $165,000, the II which has now active bass, (you provide the woofer amplifier by the way as it doesn't come with one) and a Beryllium tweeter is $60,000 dearer ... not 10 or 20, sixty thousand US dollars ... Magico had an M6 that was 135,000 or so .. their M5 was $85,000 .. The current top of the Magico line is the Q5 at $60K .. Now the Q3 is making a lot of wave and judging by Jeff and Randall accounts, it is the real deal, a SOTA speaker.
I want to see more of this in Hi-End Audio.. Looking forward to audition both the Q5 and Q3 ... The bass issue IMO can be taken care of by the judicious choice of subwoofers.

 

[amirm]

Off-topic posts deleted. Let's stay on the original track folks.

 

[mauidan]

The bass issue IMO can be taken care of by the judicious choice of subwoofers.

$38,950 for speakers that are -6dB at 42Hz and require subwoofers?

 

[Randall Smith]

Magico claims the Q3 is +/- 3dB at 26 Hz. The in-room measurement Jeff published shows a suck out in his room. There is a difference.

 

[ack]

Alon claimed 34 during the demo I attended. About the price - I am seriously ticked off about the increase, which also done with the Q5 and many others after rave reviews, or so I was told.

 

[mauidan]

Magico claims the Q3 is +/- 3dB at 26 Hz. The in-room measurement Jeff published shows a suck out in his room. There is a difference.

Using KH's reference point of 200 hz, Jeff's chart shows +8dbs at 200 hz, so 42 hz is -6dB relative to this 200Hz level.

Jeff's speaker positioning in his Music Vault, also produces +9 dbs at 50 hz and +8dbs at 25hz.

 

[Husk]

Q3

Jeff, I see that you are driving them with the Gryphon Colosseum stereo amp. Do you feel the Colosseum would also drive the Q5's as well?

 

[KeithR]

Thanks Orb- no interest in phase angles like that. Total shame.

I don't want 70 friggin tubes either. Big fail IMO.

 

[Orb]

Thanks Orb- no interest in phase angles like that. Total shame.

I don't want 70 friggin tubes either. Big fail IMO.

Yeah agree it is a shame as this speaker due to its sound presentation would be interesting with tubes, but looks like only reference tube amps will survive it and what effect will it have on the used tube's audio life.
Maybe someone will take the plunge, which then would give some useful info.
Were there any tube design amps that worked well with apogee scintilla or similar?
Only speakers I can think of the top of my head that may cause similar peformance.

Cheers
Orb

 

[LL21]

Were there any tube design amps that worked well with apogee scintilla or similar?
Only speakers I can think of the top of my head that may cause similar peformance.

Cheers
Orb

Hi Orb,

Tube Research Labs? If you go to Audiogon and look up a system called 'Texas Heat', you will see he has been running big, full range Apogees...with lots and lots and lots of tubes.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Alon claimed 34 during the demo I attended. About the price - I am seriously ticked off about the increase, which also done with the Q5 and many others after rave reviews, or so I was told.

While understanding how your (and others) eyebrows were raised by the recent Magico price increase, one must also bear in mind that due to the weak dollar, prices of materials and goods are shooting up all the time. For instance a $5 arm lifter for a tonearm from Japan is now $25.