THe end of the Audio critics?

[Brian Walsh]

Sort of a too broad statement.....while I am not a show veteran, I have always a found a few great rooms, though yes, some sounded fair to downright awful.....we will see if that changes at this year's RMAF and maybe CES in 2014....

Cheers,

Wishing won't help. History repeats itself.

"There's always next year." -- Chicago Cubs fans

 

[Elliot G.]

Yet I see audiophiles go into stores in NYC armed with Stereophile's Recommended Components List.

All my Industry contacts confirm the same story. I am not saying that there aren't a few but it doesnt comapre to the volume back in the days.
It works still overseas in some places for some products.
Walking in with a list of crap to listen to does not mean they purchase.

 

[Elliot G.]

Sort of a too broad statement.....while I am not a show veteran, I have always a found a few great rooms, though yes, some sounded fair to downright awful.....we will see if that changes at this year's RMAF and maybe CES in 2014....

Cheers,

I have NEVER in all my years ever heard GREAT at any show including ones I participated in.
Maybe I am fortunate to hear great sound in a few places the shows NEVER approach the sound at those other venues.

 

[Bill Hart]

An interesting exercise (something I admittedly haven't done) might be to go back and read some of the old reviews by Pearson, J. Gordon, and others. My suspicion is that they weren't much more in-depth than what we get today. I'm not excusing 'press release journalism' or purple prose but my suspicion is, the effect of the Internet, for all of its 'wild west' qualities, lack of serious editorial supervision and the ability of anyone (including moi) to express an 'opinion' has been salutary. It enables a geographically diverse user group with actual experience of a product to compare notes. Apart from 'audio clubs' (which are, by definition, pretty limited in time and place and may also exhibit some 'groupthink' i.e. "Joe just bought the X preamp, so I did too, X is the best one"), the sites like this one give fairly sophisticated users an opportunity to exchange info, listening 'notes' etc. Granted, the downside is that you are not in the same room, hearing the same thing, but I think in some ways, it offers more than a single review by a single reviewer. That said, I don't think the serious 'hi-fi' press is going to disappear altogether, although its traffic is bound to depend more on the Net than printed magazines at some point. As Fremer said, it is at most 'informed entertainment.' Those 'best of' lists are almost worthless, in my estimation, since they are based review capsules from different time periods, under different conditions, with different reviewers and systems. And tend to skew toward or away from certain brands- i.e., how much overlap is there between the 'Stereophile' top components and the Absolute Sound 'best' gear?

 

[andromedaaudio]

i think audiomagazines are great i just think that a large part of the audiocommunity still relies way to much on them
think for yourself
they should be seen more as entertainment,in holland the industry/consumers more or less follow the us

 

[MrAcoustat]

Oh, I do not think that Valin, Harley and the rest are going anywhere too soon.....unless old age gets them. While I put only a tiny bit to no emphasis on what the main people claim, I will still trust my own ears for any major purchases. For instance, when I go to this year's RMAF and listen to, say, some Rockport speakers (and am blown away by the potential) I have learned that a few people here on WBF have the Arrakis speakers and have offered to let me come and listen to their systems. If that were not an option then all I have to go on is an older review by RH on what the speakers "sound" like....or, a trip to Maine to hear them....

What has blown me away more than anything is the explosion of VIDEOS of systems at shows. Now, I will be the first to admit that, despite Peter Breuninger's outstanding work on AVShowrooms, a video is not the ultimate litmus test, but I can tell you this.....quite a few of those videos both added and subtracted components from my audition list.......

In the end, I suspect that the continued growth of the WBF and the willingness of WBF members to share their systems, in the future there may no longer be a need for scads of "expert" reviewers.....though there will likely still be the few who feel the need to pontificate their vaulted opinions no matter what...

Cheers,

Yes this is why audio forums are so cool, members usualy like to help others at least SOME do, if you believe that your equipment is good you should not mind letting another member listend to it, it is also a great way to make new friends, even if the member doesn't like what he heard he will be glad that he found out BEFORE buying the gear.

 

[j_j]

Well, some people who've listened to my setup have been quite content, until they noticed the zip cord, or the cheap monoprice RCA connectors, and then for some reason, after they see them, there's a problem that wasn't there before.

On the other hand, if they knew what I spent for the drivers, and that they were listening to a $40 CD player, it would only be worse, I guess.

 

[Shaffer]

Well, some people who've listened to my setup have been quite content, until they noticed the zip cord, or the cheap monoprice RCA connectors, and then for some reason, after they see them, there's a problem that wasn't there before.

Didn't we already go through years of these claims on RAO with the same predictable results? Will Silver Eared John show up soon?

On the other hand, if they knew what I spent for the drivers, and that they were listening to a $40 CD player, it would only be worse, I guess.

If I say what I think, I'll be banned.

 

[Bill Hart]

Yes this is why audio forums are so cool, members usualy like to help others at least SOME do, if you believe that your equipment is good you should not mind letting another member listend to it, it is also a great way to make new friends, even if the member doesn't like what he heard he will be glad that he found out BEFORE buying the gear.

Like your change from Bold caps to new font, yo.

 

[j_j]

If I say what I think, I'll be banned.

Be my guest, then ...

 

[valkyrie]

Nope - audio critics - both print journalism and on-line are here to stay. I subscribe to both of the main rags, read Ultra Audio, dagago, and Six Moons and I enjoy all of them tremendously.

Where else can I find such imaginative science fiction for such a low admission price? This stuff is great - and what makes it truly superb is that these commentaries are actually BELIEVED IN by the writers.

Fantastic - and all joking aside; I have read reviews of various pieces of kit and actually been helped by them.

Long live audio gear critics - and music critics. Great reading.

 

[caesar]

My friends and I have been discussing and contemplating the end of the review process as a serious influence on the industry. I believe that way too many companies have used this as an entry into the High End Industry. It seems that the reviews no longer really influence the buying market and the more manufacturers and dealers that address the subject privately the more they agree that it no longer moves the meter in sales.

What do you think is the Reviewer going the way of the DODO bird?
What does this mean?
What will take its place if anything?
Do you even care?
Who killed J.R.? ( OK I went to far)
WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON THE GRASSY KNOLL....

I understand where you are coming from. High end audio market is a market where buyers have very poor information. The high end audio scene is full of products that are fairly technical and is pervaded by uncertainty. On top of that, products are changing very frequently. Old products are reevaluated and discarded or "improved". Since barriers to entry are low, virtually anyone can make gear in their garage, adding more confusion with more products. The audio media fails to evaluate the quality that one gets for the price, obscuring the overall picture.

Furthermore, there is no one really to trust. You can't whole-heartedly trust the guys you casually meet in an internet forum, as their references and experiences are likely to be different than yours. Then there are the science-minded audiophiles, who like religious fanatics, are just quacks, IMHO. They will tell you how it's all about measurements. But then you listen to their gear, and it's emotionally dead DRECK. And when you tell them that, they tell you that you are the one that's whacked and only they can save you by sending you to a re-education camp. Then there are the dealers, who usually have limited resources to stock a wide variety of products. They may have a speaker you love, but don't have the amp that you prefer to go with it....And the audio press, many of whom have lost their credibility by over-promoting certain products that only appeal to a niche market and to reviewers/ frequent gear swappers.

So I don't think they are going away. Have they lost power due to the internet and forums like this one? Sure. Like I mentioned above, some have shattered their reputations. But in the end, this hobby is about experiences. It's not just about the gear and measurements, but about discussing and sharing those experience with knowledgeable folks. The more one can find information and various data points, the better. So they are here to stay...

 

[caesar]

Sound at shows is AWFUL.
The set up and the room is at least half the battle in a real quality system and for those of you who don't realize that then I guess the shows are useful. Hearing something improperly set up is useless to me.

I wonder why the shows don't open to the exhibitors an extra few days early so they can tweak the setup and let everything burn in before showing to the public. If you are going to show a very expensive system, why not get there a bit early and do things right. Seems to me it's penny-wise, pound foolish behavior.

 

[mep]

I wonder why the shows don't open to the exhibitors an extra few days early so they can tweak the setup and let everything burn in before showing to the public. If you are going to show a very expensive system, why not get there a bit early and do things right. Seems to me it's penny-wise, pound foolish behavior.

It's probably hotel policy based on the logistics of the show and the amount of work involved clearing out the rooms of all the furniture.

 

[caesar]

It's probably hotel policy based on the logistics of the show and the amount of work involved clearing out the rooms of all the furniture.

There's a price for everything. If you are showing a $100K plus system, which is probably every other at a show these days, what's an extra few hundred bucks to get them to clear out the crap from the rooms a couple of days earlier?

 

[MylesBAstor]

I wonder why the shows don't open to the exhibitors an extra few days early so they can tweak the setup and let everything burn in before showing to the public. If you are going to show a very expensive system, why not get there a bit early and do things right. Seems to me it's penny-wise, pound foolish behavior.

Caesar you're still banging your head against the wall. Hotel rooms were not designed with acoustics --nor electrical systems--in mind. Mark is right--the hotel doesn't want to be bothered with moving furniture for one or a handful of exhibitors.

 

[JackD201]

It's not that a hotel can't. They won't. Remember that these hotel floors are used for guests before the floors are reserved for the duration of any show ingress and egress included. Even if you book the hotel room two days earlier (IF your reserved show room is actually available), the moving out of furniture and the entry of equipment is sure to bother the hotel guests staying on that floor prior to the show period. The only way around it would be for the organizer to lengthen the reservation of the entire booking to give the participants more time. Of course this doesn't come free and the participants will have to pay for this. All of them. Our local show organizer offered this for this year. Not one to my knowledge could, on a purely economic basis, make sense of it. Besides, as Myles says the rooms aren't built with sound reproduction in mind. An extra day may get you slightly better sound but will not address the more fundamental problems per se.

 

[hifitommy]

once you learn to trust certain reviewers, you then use their opinions to select which gear you want to audition. when you find the review matches the demo, you then are equipped to set priorities to consider purchase. in addition to this, and maybe more often, i use the info to guide friends toward the merchandise they may consider for their own purchases.

it all started with early issues of tas and how the products they recommended actually sounded like their descriptions. and its not that they were always right, even the ones i learned to trust, its that they were consistently accurate. i learned not to quickly make purchases on the basis of a review. long term listening is a better arbiter, hence the long loan times allowed reviewers. of course we have heard of the abuses by some reviewers, real or imagined.

so NO, i cannot see the end of audiio reviewing plus the younger crowd is sometimes review driven because of the internet and social media.

 

[caesar]

once you learn to trust certain reviewers, you then use their opinions to select which gear you want to audition. when you find the review matches the demo, you then are equipped to set priorities to consider purchase. in addition to this, and maybe more often, i use the info to guide friends toward the merchandise they may consider for their own purchases.

it all started with early issues of tas and how the products they recommended actually sounded like their descriptions. and its not that they were always right, even the ones i learned to trust, its that they were consistently accurate. i learned not to quickly make purchases on the basis of a review. long term listening is a better arbiter, hence the long loan times allowed reviewers. of course we have heard of the abuses by some reviewers, real or imagined.

so NO, i cannot see the end of audiio reviewing plus the younger crowd is sometimes review driven because of the internet and social media.

I think you make great points, especially long term listening. I just take issue with one: reviewers are humans just like us. Their tastes change and evolve. Take Valin, for example. He went from Kharma and Lamm, a sweeter combination, to Magico Soulution at the other extreme. Now he is recovering and has drifted more to the middle with Raidho....

And we change too. If we are curious, we will seek out new music. We will hear the music we know and love in different halls and clubs, and in different seats in the same clubs. All these experience will contribute to broaden our horizons and to develop new perspectives on the sound and enhance our references.

In the end, high end audio is your own experience. You can't really trust anyone. Only yourself, at this particular time, until you experience more of musical life and develop new references.

 

[audioarcher]

I think you make great points, especially long term listening. I just take issue with one: reviewers are humans just like us. Their tastes change and evolve. Take Valin, for example. He went from Kharma and Lamm, a sweeter combination, to Magico Soulution at the other extreme. Now he is recovering and has drifted more to the middle with Raidho....

And we change too. If we are curious, we will seek out new music. We will hear the music we know and love in different halls and clubs, and in different seats in the same clubs. All these experience will contribute to broaden our horizons and to develop new perspectives on the sound and enhance our references.

In the end, high end audio is your own experience. You can't really trust anyone. Only yourself, at this particular time, until you experience more of musical life and develop new references.

+1