The audiophiles wet dream.....?

[Thetiminator]

http://arstechnica.com/information-...-home-battery-will-cost-3500-for-10kwh-units/

 

[amirm]

The batteries run at 400 volts so kind of hard to power electronics with it .

It is a great device though for general whole house standby UPS. Pricing is very reasonable coming from Tesla and the technology within. We have a standby generator but as with all the units like that, they wait 30 seconds or so before kicking on. And then they have to warm up. Because of that, I wind up having a bunch of UPS in my racks and equipment stacks to keep those systems running non-stop. Would be much cleaner to have one of these and not have to mess with maintaining batteries and allocating space to all of those individual UPS units.

Our power failures unfortunately last a long time in this part of US. But if they did not, a cluster of 10 of them would eliminate the need to have a generator at 90 KWh. Our heat pump in worst case mode takes 50 KW so that would give about two hours. If we had propane for heating, then it could do that for a long time.

 

[bfalls]

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well, don't forget it has an inverter to convert back to ac.....however, if we just tapped off the batteries, well, that's maybe what you are talking about. thanks for bringing it to my attention.

You have the right idea - and it is not a dream...I have converted all of my audio equipment to accept direct input from large format automotive batteries with excellent results. There is the opportunity to use a direct feed of the DC voltage from the batteries and bypass all of the traditional power supply components (rectifiers, voltage regulators, filters, etc) due to the flat discharge curve of certain chemistries. The result is dramatically lowered noise floor, increased dynamics, and a natural tonality due to lower noise. The attached pictures shows my complete system (battery power supplies/components) in my listening room along with an inside shot of one of the boxes. Going forward this concept can easily applied to the whole house - essentially a DC house. Pretty much back to where Edison was a century ago.

 

[esldude]

The batteries run at 400 volts so kind of hard to power electronics with it .
................................

Seems like an okay voltage for tube stuff. Might want to series two of them for some applications.

Go all tube, and analog with some high voltage DC motors for the TT and you are all set.

 

[jazdoc]

Hmmm...I thought Diana Krall was the audiophile's wet dream

 

[BlueFox]

I wonder if the DC to AC conversion will be cleaner than the AC from the power company. My first thought when I read of these batteries was if I could get two, one for each amp. Each amp has its own circuit so they could be directly attached to the battery. My second thought was since these are the type of batteries that like to spontaneously go up in flames is do I really want them mounted on my house.

 

[amirm]

I wonder if the DC to AC conversion will be cleaner than the AC from the power company. My first thought when I read of these batteries was if I could get two, one for each amp. Each amp has its own circuit so they could be directly attached to the battery. My second thought was since these are the type of batteries that like to spontaneously go up in flames is do I really want them mounted on my house.

For sure I would not bring them any closer than the garage or outside of the house. THat said, I expect them to have extensive instrumentation with Tesla constantly monitoring (snooping?) them and doing firmware upgrades if they see issues.

 

[amirm]

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You have the right idea - and it is not a dream...I have converted all of my audio equipment to accept direct input from large format automotive batteries with excellent results. There is the opportunity to use a direct feed of the DC voltage from the batteries and bypass all of the traditional power supply components (rectifiers, voltage regulators, filters, etc) due to the flat discharge curve of certain chemistries. The result is dramatically lowered noise floor, increased dynamics, and a natural tonality due to lower noise. The attached pictures shows my complete system (battery power supplies/components) in my listening room along with an inside shot of one of the boxes. Going forward this concept can easily applied to the whole house - essentially a DC house. Pretty much back to where Edison was a century ago.

That's incredible. Did you do the work or have someone do it for them.

And tell us more about the electronics. Are those custom maple veneers? And is the middle stripe walnut? If you don't have a members gallery, you should. That is one beautiful setup.

 

[bfalls]

Thanks Amir,

I did all of the component alterations and the design/machining for the equipment stand. I had a wood shop do the maple boxes based on my design - the darker inserts I made and they are actually etched brass that gives off many colors/patterns in the sunlight.

The battery design and control electronics is based on our work in the automotive sector - we are heavily involved in electrification of the automobile and battery pack design/controls is of course a large part of our work. I just applied this to my hobby...

The electronics are the following: Technics SP10 mk3, Mac Mini, Metric Halo Lio8 (for both analog and digital), and modified First Watt F5 amps that have been modified for direct DC input and balanced operation (requiring one amp for each channel). The amps are driving Wilson Watt/Puppy 8's - I did upload a couple of images as you suggested. Thanks again for the interest. Bruce

 

[spiritofmusic]

So, will we be able to use one or more of these for the hifi? Or not?

 

[FrantzM]

So, will we be able to use one or more of these for the hifi? Or not?

With the right inverter and appropriate number of those batteries, yes.

First the inverter. most inverter runs on less than 50 VDC ( actually 12, 24 and 48 are the most common). There are inverters however that runs on mcuh higher DC input voltage among these the SMA Sunny Boy which can accept up to 400 VDC of input voltage... I could be mistaken but the model I know, can deliver up to 6 KW of AC power and you can string many together for stupid amount of AC power .. Don;t hold me to these numbers but 100 KW is easy-peasy with those...

Now for the batteries .. I believe they can deliver up to 3,300 watts peal and 2000 wats continuous but you can put several Powerwall together for a mximum of 90 KW... so most stereso or Home Theater systems and the AC to cool the room is covered ...

I actually believe in inverters as a cleaner solution than AC commercial grid, both in the ecological sense and in term of Power Quality. I believe cleaner, plentiful AC to our system is clearly audible. Getting one equipment to entirely run on DC is not an easy endeavor. It seems to me easier to use double conversion ...You know this was coming

These batteries with the appropriate inverters/chargers are a major step forward IMO.

 

[amirm]

Hi Frantz. These already have inverters built-in. I suspect it is a pure sinewave in which case, you are right that it will be a lot cleaner than what the utility puts out.

I am hoping my company can get setup to install them in which case I can do some testing and report back.

 

[BlueFox]

I already have solar, so what I would like is to charge them during the day, and run my stereo at night off them. Since they are around the price of a good power cable, I would maybe buy three; one for the source, and one for each amp. Since those three items each have there own dedicated 20 amp, it should be easy to assign a battery to each one.

Can somebody provide a guesstimate of how long a battery would last for a stereo. Assume my amps are running flat out and making all 1200 watts of power, for a worse case scenario.

 

[amirm]

It is 3,500 watt hour. So 3500/1200 = 3 hours.

 

[spiritofmusic]

So, my SET monos at 75W/ch, we're looking at 20hrs? Really? Just what can the disadvantages be? Maybe a backup battery while main one recharging?

 

[FrantzM]

Hi Frantz. These already have inverters built-in. I suspect it is a pure sinewave in which case, you are right that it will be a lot cleaner than what the utility puts out.

I am hoping my company can get setup to install them in which case I can do some testing and report back.

I am extremely interested by this. Wasn't aware of the inverter. They do not give much info on the output of those inverters BTW.

 

[Thetiminator]

Thanks for all the interesting info.

Surely it won't be long before co's specialising in power conditioning start adapting them and trebling the cost....

 

[amirm]

Thanks Amir,

I did all of the component alterations and the design/machining for the equipment stand. I had a wood shop do the maple boxes based on my design - the darker inserts I made and they are actually etched brass that gives off many colors/patterns in the sunlight.

The battery design and control electronics is based on our work in the automotive sector - we are heavily involved in electrification of the automobile and battery pack design/controls is of course a large part of our work. I just applied this to my hobby...

The electronics are the following: Technics SP10 mk3, Mac Mini, Metric Halo Lio8 (for both analog and digital), and modified First Watt F5 amps that have been modified for direct DC input and balanced operation (requiring one amp for each channel). The amps are driving Wilson Watt/Puppy 8's - I did upload a couple of images as you suggested. Thanks again for the interest. Bruce

Ah, it is always great when you can use work experience for one's hobby. I do that all the time .

How about creating a larger write up for this? I am sure there will be a lot of interest in how an entire system can be modified to run on batteries and all the other work you put in to create those beautiful systems. We have a DIY form that it could in there: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/forumdisplay.php?249-DIY-Audio-Forum

 

[BlueFox]

I just received my April 2015 solar output report, and I generated 988kWh for April. So, my idea of running the stereo at night, and recharging the battery during the day might not be practical.

 

[BlueFox]

Looking on the Tesla web-site, I see that the DC-AC inverter is NOT included.

Installation
Requires installation by a trained electrician. DC-AC inverter not included.

Also, for current, it states.

Current
5.8 amp nominal, 8.6 amp peak output

I am pretty sure my AC draws more current than that. Plus each amp draws about 7-8 amps while idle. However, this still might be worth buying. Of course, if it only saves $35 a month on the electric bill then it will take 100 months to recoup the investment.

http://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall